What gives...

I'm getting a little discouraged at rat breeding, they're not producing the way i thought. this was supposed to be easy. I'm sorry to keep complaining but i've followed the advice given by plenty of experienced breeders. we've added dog food to their diet, left them alone, the only time we bother them is to clean, add food & water on every friday, other than that when i get home from work in the mornings i toss in a carrot in each tub and they will not be bothered at all after that. anyway one of the females was HUGE, i mean she was outta control huge, when i went to toss in a carrot tuesday morning it was visible that she gave birth, so i let her be, then wednesday morning when i tossed in the carrot i took a quick look and there were noy even one alive, all i saw was 2 dead. this is not the same female from my last complaint. am i the only one with bad luck? could the females just not be good breeders?

First times mommies sometimes will do that. I had to start over with new colonies of asf's, finally starting to see lots of babies.

Are You housing the pregnant females individually or leaving them in a group?

For maximum production pregnant females need to be housed by themselves.

I've been leaving them in groups, i think it's about time i start separating them.

i kinda do a mix, i give 1/2/3/4 rats to 10g when they drop litters ( just depends whats available or full ) I'm also runnin 5 or so in 20s and 7 in a 30. another also just gave birth in the rack, but i don't really have anywhere to put her so shes staying in the rack slot dedicated to preggos. the other 4 racks have a male and ~10 females ( depending how many are in mom tanks ). I'm getting an average of ~75 or so babies a week i think. haven't really had too much issue with them eating them. and i tend to mess with em quite a bit. iv also seen the dad rats help out on occasion, before i switched to the system i use now

perhaps your rats aren't as used to humans? just a thought based on my observations of my rats

If you're ever out near Philly stop by and I will give you 1.4 that will breed and do well for you. A lot of time its also your breeding stock.

Watch your temps...rats tend to do better in 70-80 degree tempatures.. any hotter and nurseing mothers will dehydrate and kill and eat the young for moisture and to replace the electrolytes they are looseing from the heat and nurseing (even with water present). If you suspect that this is the case, you can suplement their water with Pedialyte the clear sugar free kind, it's like gatoraid only easier on their systems with less sugar.

Hope that helps

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

Watch your temps...rats tend to do better in 70-80 degree tempatures.. any hotter and nurseing mothers will dehydrate and kill and eat the young for moisture and to replace the electrolytes they are looseing from the heat and nurseing (even with water present). If you suspect that this is the case, you can suplement their water with Pedialyte the clear sugar free kind, it's like gatoraid only easier on their systems with less sugar.

Hope that helps

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if they have access to water then your statement in untrue.

Rats kill offspring when they feel they can not sustain the entire colony, then they weed out the weak.

My building hits 90's most of the summer. Many southern breeder's buildings are not temp controlled.


I would say you either have a bad female or a bad male.

Retry with different breeding stock.

I would take Tom up on his offer if you are capable. He has some good breeding stock....I know, much of it came from me :D

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

if they have access to water then your statement in untrue.

Rats kill offspring when they feel they can not sustain the entire colony, then they weed out the weak.

My building hits 90's most of the summer. Many southern breeder's buildings are not temp controlled.


I would say you either have a bad female or a bad male.

Retry with different breeding stock.

I would take Tom up on his offer if you are capable. He has some good breeding stock....I know, much of it came from me :D

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Just relaying what I've seen out of the couple of hundred we produce a week over the last 4 years of breeding our own..Just one option as to what might me going on..Just my two cents what ever its worth.

I've also seen them have liver deficiency's cause them to eat their young, anemia, E-coli, and Kidney failure for what ever reason seem to cause them to off their young.. again just all things that we've seen over the years as to why this happens..

also the mom might not be killing them, they might just be dieing and the mom is cleaning up the bodies, they'll do that too.. :gj:

As for us Southern breeders I've seen most of the place's that breed rats in 4 states and all of them were cooled in some manner. Even RDR in MD uses big Swamp Coolers to keep his rats cool..it's all in what works for your rats..

If it gets really hot, the humidity from bedding(shavings) will cause respiratory issues which can lead to death. I personally switch to pellet bedding in summer months to help avoid this. This is one of the many reasons I frown on the "big tub" caging so many people seem so happy with.

and I do agree, 70-80 is an optimal temp but not crucial. My rats see 90's in the summer months ( I have fans in my building) and see a low of 45 in the winter.

Yep yep I would separate them, I know I've said this before :P

Where did you get your breeders? Were they adults when you got them? They could have been retired breeders if they were adults. Adults at pet stores tend to be retired or bad breeders.

If they are new moms that could be the problem too, but usually new moms do pretty well.

I have a couple girls that have been giving birth to a lot of stillborns lately, but they are getting pretty old. I know the one girl is creeping up on three years old as of August. The other girl is over 2 years old, but I'm not exactly sure how much older than 2 she is.

I've refined and improved the stock that I got from you Gary. I have gotten all of the white off of those. All jet black now like ninjas...from the tip of their tail to the tip of their nose...nary a white hair to be seen.

And my jet black dumbos would be hardier in your hot building with their bigger heat releasing ears and their more laid back demeanor lol.

Someday you will get a rat from me Gary lol.

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

if they have access to water then your statement in untrue.

Rats kill offspring when they feel they can not sustain the entire colony, then they weed out the weak.

My building hits 90's most of the summer. Many southern breeder's buildings are not temp controlled.


I would say you either have a bad female or a bad male.

Retry with different breeding stock.

I would take Tom up on his offer if you are capable. He has some good breeding stock....I know, much of it came from me :D

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

If it gets really hot, the humidity from bedding(shavings) will cause respiratory issues which can lead to death. I personally switch to pellet bedding in summer months to help avoid this. This is one of the many reasons I frown on the "big tub" caging so many people seem so happy with.

and I do agree, 70-80 is an optimal temp but not crucial. My rats see 90's in the summer months ( I have fans in my building) and see a low of 45 in the winter.

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What do you mean by "big tub"?

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Originally Posted by tomfromtheshade

What do you mean by "big tub"?

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the big 40-60 gallon ones they cut the sides out of.

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Originally Posted by tomfromtheshade

I've refined and improved the stock that I got from you Gary. I have gotten all of the white off of those. All jet black now like ninjas...from the tip of their tail to the tip of their nose...nary a white hair to be seen.

And my jet black dumbos would be hardier in your hot building with their bigger heat releasing ears and their more laid back demeanor lol.

Someday you will get a rat from me Gary lol.

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if you have bred them calm then you have failed. My objective was to regain their natural wild and mean demeanor. You know, the instinct to survive and kill.:D

you will learn someday grasshopper.

and improving my stock and bragging about it is like adding a k&n filter to a Ferrari and claiming it to be faster.:colbert::colbert:

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

if you have bred them calm then you have failed. My objective was to regain their natural wild and mean demeanor. You know, the instinct to survive and kill.:D

you will learn someday grasshopper.

and improving my stock and bragging about it is like adding a k&n filter to a Ferrari and claiming it to be faster.:colbert::colbert:

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LOL. You and I are taking a little different approach. I swear that your rats would decimate the wild population if they ever escaped LOL.

My rats are plenty vigorous, but they don't bite the shinola out of me or run around at 185 miles per hour like your rats do.

Also, I think that if I kept mine like you kept yours they would probably wild up as well. Even the big black male that I got from you is pretty decent to handle in my herd.

Did you ever think that the dumbo ears might give your rats an advantage in losing bodyheat in the summer?

Maybe that is just the mad scientist in me?

Seriously though, what I meant by improving was that I got all of the white hairs out of them. I have some that have zero white on them at all. I know that you're trying to get away from the white in your colony.

And furthermore, you know that Im a Harley guy. I go slow and look good LMAO.

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Originally Posted by tomfromtheshade

LOL. You and I are taking a little different approach. I swear that your rats would decimate the wild population if they ever escaped LOL.

My rats are plenty vigorous, but they don't bite the shinola out of me or run around at 185 miles per hour like your rats do.

Also, I think that if I kept mine like you kept yours they would probably wild up as well. Even the big black male that I got from you is pretty decent to handle in my herd.

Did you ever think that the dumbo ears might give your rats an advantage in losing bodyheat in the summer?

Maybe that is just the mad scientist in me?

Seriously though, what I meant by improving was that I got all of the white hairs out of them. I have some that have zero white on them at all. I know that you're trying to get away from the white in your colony.

And furthermore, you know that Im a Harley guy. I go slow and look good LMAO.

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dunno, they don't stay still long enough to use a pyrometer on their ears. Literature states they use their tails for temp control. I have to use what I have read on their body systems. I like experimentation as much as the next but not gonna argue their body systems with guys who have dissected them.

I think your offer to Ben was a great idea to get him going and a very nice offering. Huge props to you for being a stand up guy!!!

If you're just now beginning this colony it could take a while until you get it up and running.

I'm just now starting up mine, all I need is two females:P. Hopefully breeding goes well for you, wish you the best:please:

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

Yep yep I would separate them, I know I've said this before :P

Where did you get your breeders? Were they adults when you got them? They could have been retired breeders if they were adults. Adults at pet stores tend to be retired or bad breeders.

If they are new moms that could be the problem too, but usually new moms do pretty well.

I have a couple girls that have been giving birth to a lot of stillborns lately, but they are getting pretty old. I know the one girl is creeping up on three years old as of August. The other girl is over 2 years old, but I'm not exactly sure how much older than 2 she is.

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I bought them from a local breeder, they were about 80-100g when i got them

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

I think your offer to Ben was a great idea to get him going and a very nice offering. Huge props to you for being a stand up guy!!!

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I agree with Gary, this is your second offer to me and i really appreciate it Tom, you are a stand up guy.
Tom, PM sent.

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

If you're just now beginning this colony it could take a while until you get it up and running.

I'm just now starting up mine, all I need is two females:P. Hopefully breeding goes well for you, wish you the best:please:

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I've had this colony for a couple of months now with very minimal results.

Thank you all for your advice and tips, all of you have been very helpful.

It took me a while to get my rats established at first--they kept falling ill with Myco or just dying for mysterious reasons. I also had problems every time I added new rats from outside--a bout of illness and the whole thing over again.

Now that I have a BIG collection established and don't have to bring in new animals, I'm having much better luck. I do breed them in groups of 1.2 or 1.3. There may be more losses, but it's a space issue--even with losses, I get more babies for the space involved this way.

so far knock on wood i have had no problems with breeding rats. I even leave the males in with them and they do just fine. Every now an again a baby will be eaten but thats to be expected with breeding them. Its gonna happen to everyone at some point. I leave them in the dark for the most part and give them plenty of food and water. So far no problems. I just picked up a few new breeding groups that have been breeding for a few months from a local so i will let you know how they do in the rat rack. The rats ive been breeding are 2 males and 4 females. I average about 13-18 rats per litter.

i just picked up some weanes from a local also to raise and breed, hopefully they'll do the job right, the person i picked them up from averaged a minimum of 10 per litter. i'll continue to use the others until i feel it's time to go. i plan on keeping 1.3 per colony in a small HD tub and see what happens.

I had one female that I had the same issue with, she would give birth and by the end of the week all would be dead. Since she was to big to feed her off, I was going to just keep her as a pet. Anyhow, she got pregnant again and to my surprise, she raised all of them without issue. Sometimes, you just have to keep trying. I started with 2 males and 2 females (added an albino female and dumbo female later) and now have 4 bins of 1.3 breeders and 2 bins of holdbacks that keep my Ball collection well fed.

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Originally Posted by PghBall

I had one female that I had the same issue with, she would give birth and by the end of the week all would be dead. Since she was to big to feed her off, I was going to just keep her as a pet. Anyhow, she got pregnant again and to my surprise, she raised all of them without issue. Sometimes, you just have to keep trying. I started with 2 males and 2 females (added an albino female and dumbo female later) and now have 4 bins of 1.3 breeders and 2 bins of holdbacks that keep my Ball collection well fed.

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Thanks for your advice.I will continue to breed them and just see what happens but i have added more breeders as back up. going forward i will have two tubs of 1.3 and two tubs of holdbacks for feeders.

I just started air conditioning the rats this week and I lost a bunch of babies.

Friggin' sucks.

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Originally Posted by tomfromtheshade

I just started air conditioning the rats this week and I lost a bunch of babies.

Friggin' sucks.

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hmmmmmm....haven't lost any.

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Originally Posted by suzuki4life

hmmmmmm....haven't lost any.

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I lost half the babies in one of my birthing tubs...maybe 6-7 babies. Have no idea wtf happened.

sorry to hear that, that sucks bro.

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Originally Posted by tomfromtheshade

I lost half the babies in one of my birthing tubs...maybe 6-7 babies. Have no idea wtf happened.

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they reacted to an environment they were not ready for.

My rats always produce more in the summer than winter. That leads me to believe they deal with heat much quicker than cold. So under that belief I would say they if you suddenly cooled their environment, they reacted.

In the wild, mammals would associate cold with lack of food and water. teh cull their population as a result.

That is my theory. I know even in the cities, where do you see the rats? In air conditioned buildings or out in the hot and humid trash piles? There is food in both places. I know, I worked in NYC for years. In the restaurants you found roaches, but rarely a rat. But just outside the door, you found dozens by the trash pile. A human would've commuted :D:D

I don't cool them below 75 degrees. However, taking them from 90 some degrees to 75 degrees has really cut down the amount of water they drink and as a result cut down the amount of urine they produce. This is a HUGE improvement lol.