Should I buy older females to get a head start on breeding?

This is a subject that comes and goes in many conversations, and I think it deserves its own specific thread.

It is my belief that one is better off getting younger females and raising them up to breed instead of purchasing older females. There are a few different reasons for this.

It is quite common for a female of breeding weight and age to NOT want to go for at least a year after getting rehomed.... To take that one step further though, with a few exceptions breeders aren't exactly interested in selling their best breeders. For example, when it comes time for a breeder to sell 5 of his 20 normal female breeders to make room for other stuff, what ones are they likely to sell? I'll tell you:

1.) A snake that just laid last year and is not getting up to wait very quick and likely won't go the next year. (this could be a 2,000 gram girl! you have no idea how much she weight prior to weighing her last clutch!!!)

2.) A snake that tends to lay a high percentage of bad eggs

3.) A snake that won't produce at all

4.) A snake that only produces every other year or worse

5.) A problem feeder

6.) A snake that despite large size only lays 2 or 3 eggs each year

7.) Ultimately a snake that they have determined to be no longer worth keeping as a breeder compared to their other breeders.

So really the question is would you rather start with a young snake that you can raise up correctly and have the best chances of producing healthy kids? Or would you rather rush and buy someone elses older snake that for probably more reason then one they decided was no longer worth their trouble keeping... Even though they already put the time and money into raising it to a breeding age... Or maybe they bought someone elses undesirables too...

Of course there are some situations where a breeder does sell an excellent breeding snake just because he is done producing a certain morph. These are in my opinion few and far between, and when you do find one you can be assured that they will command a higher price.

I think a lot of people rush into things and then they run in to trouble for some of the reasons mentioned above. It is important for both newbees and intermediate breeders to keep these things in mind.

Please share your thoughts!

There is a thread about it and stickied! ;)

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...d.php?t=109170

Could be, they are in the same position I am now, and selling all their normal females to make room for morph females.

Dave

well i have got a few adults but mainly i get smaller girls and raise them up so i do a little of both

I raise all my girls I don't want any headaches. I know I wouldn't let go of a very productive female so I don't expect other's too either.

I personally almost decided to go ahead and just jump the gun by buying larger females, which if weren't up to weight were very close to it.

I'm glad I didn't, I don't think people should try breeding right away. You should learn how to care for a ball python before trying to produce babies. I personally believe it's in peoples best interest to start with some younger ball pythons and raise them.

When any of my ball pythons produce babies, I personally raised them to where they are now and that's going to leave me with a sense of satisfaction that I don't think you can achieve by buying larger females.. It's almost like cheating! :)

Having ball pythons for close to 2 years has really prepared me, I believe, for what I'm going to attempt the next breeding season. I have a female spider and a normal female that I'm going to work with and try my hand at breeding. This 2 years and this website, the amount of knowledge someone can gain in pacing themselves, will in the long run, help you out a lot.

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Originally Posted by piper

I personally almost decided to go ahead and just jump the gun by buying larger females, which if weren't up to weight were very close to it.

I'm glad I didn't, I don't think people should try breeding right away. You should learn how to care for a ball python before trying to produce babies. I personally believe it's in peoples best interest to start with some younger ball pythons and raise them.

When any of my ball pythons produce babies, I personally raised them to where they are now and that's going to leave me with a sense of satisfaction that I don't think you can achieve by buying larger females.. It's almost like cheating! :)

Having ball pythons for close to 2 years has really prepared me, I believe, for what I'm going to attempt the next breeding season. I have a female spider and a normal female that I'm going to work with and try my hand at breeding. This 2 years and this website, the amount of knowledge someone can gain in pacing themselves, will in the long run, help you out a lot.

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this is a good point too.

I actually have a lot of first hand experience in this area. 1) I have quite a few BP's 2) I was/am aware of your stated possible issues.

What I did was, over the course of a year or so, was to acquire entire small collections local to me so I could go check them out, etc. I actually had no issues with the females I got. A high percentage became gravid and I could not have been happier.

Once I produce the base morphs I want I plan on re-homing most, if not all, of my normal female breeders; that is, after they regain their weight. For me, there will be a few reasons for this. 1) is space, 2) food bill, 3) want to focus on producing multiple gene specimens, etc.

BrandonsBalls.

I have yet to breed but I really wanted to produce next season to get breeding under my belt. Me and a friend are pretty much partners and it seems that our girls will be of size 2 years pastels, a spider, and a pin female. I dont want to waste any eggs when they come around. by waste I mean i want to have a feel for incubating and other things that go along with breeding.

I acquired a female in a sell where i brought my pastel male young and she was thrown in for free a proven breeder but was under wait when she bred i forgot what he said she was but it was just barely 1000 grams if that, she laid 3 eggs. I had her for a year decided not to push her into breeding again.

My plan was to grab another female hopefully close to 3000 grams or more so i could get 2 clutches, never gave any thoughts to these issues. Now i must reconsider, so how do i go about picking a grown female who is a proven breeder? should i just ask weight before and after the last clutches? and if she is on paste to get back to the weight she was the last season?

I prefer to raise my own. so I know they healthy. I have aquired a couple so called breeding age females that are of nice weight and I will make a note to make them wait at least a year before I consider breeding them so I know they in good health.

I know some people use the normals to get started and then once they get funds for morph females.

If you feel your ready to breed, and are able to properly incubate, care and provide for the babies, I'd buy a "breedable" female. I have found a few of them, that are Pets. The owner(s) just either dont have the time anymore or funds to care for them. As long as they are healthy, go for it.

Good luck either way...I'm planning on buying a "breedable" or close to weight female for my 1st try at breeding....I've done and still do a bunch of research everyday to make sure I'm MORE then prepared for whatever may come from breeding.

I had aquired two of my females that were pets, that are the best breeders, and biggest producers in my collection. Many people who just have a pet, end up having to give it up because of moving, lost job, was their son's and he left for college, etc,. You can luck out that way and get some great normal big females that are ready to breed! If I need a female to be closer to breeding size rather than raising up a hatchling, getting yearling females that are still young, but have some size to them isn't a bad way to go, either. They're already feeding well, so you can cut your raise-up time in half.

I think it was mentioned before, but a lot of breeders are moving normal females out to make room for morph females.
I know as soon as each one of my morph girls reach breeding size, a normal female will be moved out.
Ball python breeding is a marathon, not a sprint. There is always next breeding season.....

That makes since, but it also makes since that you would get of your "Worst Breeders" also. but are there breeding pasts perminent, meaning if they produced 3 good eggs the past two years could they not get a 7 egg clutch this year? I don tthink so but then again i am not experienced. But we breed of statistics so it makes since to give off a proven breeder when a morph breeder is of size, but not your "Best Breeder"

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Originally Posted by monk90222

I think it was mentioned before, but a lot of breeders are moving normal females out to make room for morph females.
I know as soon as each one of my morph girls reach breeding size, a normal female will be moved out.
Ball python breeding is a marathon, not a sprint. There is always next breeding season.....

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I've bought large numbers of adult normal females to start out, and I have actually had few problems. The trick is to shop around and ask questions.

If you want to know if the female lays lots of eggs--ask how many were in her last couple of clutches. If you want to know if she's a good eater--ask. Low fertility is USUALLY the fault of the male, though, not the female (although overweight females are more prone to slug out).

Ask, ask, ask. If the person is reputable, they're not going to lie to you, because that will come back and bite them in the butt. The worst they can say is "I don't know". Sometimes that's acceptable, and sometimes it's not--I don't personally care to do business with someone who cannot be bothered to keep track of clutch sizes and weights on his/her normal females.

The least satisfying deal I ever made was to purchase a lot of 10 proven females for a VERY low price. They are all 'ok'--but some were underweight and needed the year off, and at least one was so aggressive that I re-sold her (with full disclosure). The remaining animals are starting to shape up now, after a year of good feeding, and I'm getting clutches from them. But it's not a deal I would make again, because it proved to not be worth the savings.

It's SO much better to buy individual females or SMALL groups, with full records--and to buy BIG females. The big girls lay giant clutches. I have one big girl who laid 13 eggs. 8 to 10 eggs is common for the ones over 2500 grams.

Always check reputation, and look for girls being sold for the following reasons:
Normals are being phased out and replaced with morphs.
Breeder is retiring and is selling entire collection.

If I had bought all baby snakes, I'd never have been able to afford to keep a collection of 41 animals the past three years. Since I didn't, the snakes have paid for themselves, AND paid for expansion.
This is the first year we're going to be holding back LARGE numbers of hatchlings. Previously, we sold nearly all of our hatchlings, and used the money to buy more adult females, and the occasional morph male.

It should be fun picking them out!

I've bought a few older females and have had them go off feed until they got used to their new home. One didn't eat for 4 months.

So, I prefer to hold back babies or buy baby/young females.