New from africa !!!

Here she is We brought her in a few weeks ago. She is co owned buy our friend Brock Wagner. She just shed so I figure time to show her off we are calling her strawberry Cream

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0...D550/ry%3D400/


http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a0...D550/ry%3D400/

second pic came out dark

Picture isn't working.

Where's the pic??

I like her, nice red hues in there. Hope she proves out for you.:gj:
Looks like a toffee with a little more red, haha.

looks similar to the toffee or burgandy albino

Very nice!! I like her a lot!

Very pretty! Though I have seen another BP with the name Strawberries n Cream. Id have to dig up the link again.

I hope she proves out, Dinker projects are so exciting.

soooo beautiful...
sounds great too. mmmmm strawberries and whipped cream...time to go to the grocery store.:D

Beautiful. Sooo jealous! :bow::bow::bow:

Jon those are great pictures of Strawberry she just looks awesome. We are anxious to get babies from her and work on her genetics! It is going to be a great morph and I see tons of potential in her!

Brock

Very nice! Good luck with that one :gj:

Looks like a Toffee, I wouldn't give it a new name I'd just call it a Toffee(unless it proves different), there's enough names out there :p . . . Good luck with the project I'm betting it's recessive.

Looks great! So now we more than likely have 4 names for the same morph. I would bet money it is another line of the morph called Ultramel, Crider, and Burgundy Albino. I sure hope you breed it to Brocks Ultramel to end the confusion fast. Again Nice snake.

Ryan Young

Thanks for all the nice words we are really excited about her.

The really exciting thing about her is unlike the ultramels and toffees is she does NOT have red or ruby eyes the are black and gold which really made us want her more


thanks
Jon

Ryan I knew you would chime in and say that. We don't believe her to be a Ultramel. Time will tell I guess!

Brock

Here is a pic of a Crider line snake (left) and an Ultramel (right). They look like variations of the same morph to me. The eyes on the crider are very dark with a deep red pupil and the eyes on the ultramel are gold on top with red pupil as well. Keep in mind that morph balls can and will vary just like the normals and over time when they are less line bred the variations in looks will show. So far the most outcrossed snakes in this group are the ultramels and they also seem to show the most variations as well. Look at the normal albinos with High Contrast ones and really light ones as well as not all Lavs are not created equal either. Time will tell but I think that they are all going to prove out as the same morph. I guess I need to sell my Crider hets for more since they are not Ultramels.

Ryan Young

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...s/DSC09557.jpg

She is beautiful!!!

She's gorgeous... Congrats!

What a killer! Can't wait to see what she produces down the road :)

By your explanation a lesser and butter are the same morph ?

Beautiful girl! Good luck with her! Maybe when she's settled we can get some more pics :D

Very nice :gj:

Wow! She is very cool. I love the color. It is a very soothing pattern.

Mike

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Originally Posted by albinosunlimited

By your explanation a lesser and butter are the same morph ?

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I know im butting in but with all due respect there has been no real proof that butters and lessers are different morphs. I think when everyone agrees that a butter lesser BEL is a breeding nightmare because you wouldnt really be able to for sure tell what was what with the slight variations that its safe to say there is more pointing towards them being the same morph than different.

Its the same story as lots of other morphs with multiple names, someone gets their hands on one of the first specimens that looks slightly different (or even the same) and decides to throw their own name at it for the sake of reputation and money (if your breeding for money). The pastel should be the primary example of this debate. Bell, lemon, stonewash, graziani etc.... In many circumstances some of these pastels in contrast have more variance than the large majority of butters and lessers but... they are still pastels.

Also in my opinion its naive to think that there arent any "new morphs" being held in africa that have been bred and the offspring sold off as new morphs at different times and because they look slightly different they can get away with it.

My point here really is not to start an argument or offend anyone its more to say if it truly is a new genetic mutation that can be proven then great I am just as happy as anyne to see a new ball python morph out there. But if its very similar to another and after reproduction there is no way of proving its different without checking their DNA then its safe to safe they ARE the same morph.

One last thing, if someone can publicly post proof that the original butter was not offspring of the original platinum than im sure we can all sleep soundly at night finally knowing they really are different.

Ohh and by the way shes an absolute knockout and I hope she not only proves genetic but also to be fresh blood.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sariel

Very pretty! Though I have seen another BP with the name Strawberries n Cream. Id have to dig up the link again.

I hope she proves out, Dinker projects are so exciting.

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something like that isnt really a dinker, thats a flat out morph

Sorry for the double post, thought that wasnt possible....

Awesome looking snake, good luck Brock!!! (like u need it)

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Originally Posted by NatelovesBPs

One last thing, if someone can publicly post proof that the original butter was not offspring of the original platinum than im sure we can all sleep soundly at night finally knowing they really are different.

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Ralph Davis imported the original platinum male. Pretty sure Reptile Industries imported the first butter, it certainly wasn't offspring from the platinum.

And congrats again Brock and Jon, very nice animal!

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Originally Posted by jluman

Ralph Davis imported the original platinum male. Pretty sure Reptile Industries imported the first butter, it certainly wasn't offspring from the platinum.

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Yeah I knew Ralph Davis imported the original platinum male I wasnt aware of the butter, and I would believe that they were completelyseperate bloodlines but I would still fall back on my my pastel debate. Same base morph differant line. I dont want to do anymore hijacking though, my point was only to say what everyones thinks are different morphs might not be.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BAMReptiles

something like that isnt really a dinker, thats a flat out morph

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Noooo...thats about as dinker as a dinker gets.

Dinker = Unproven trait

Kind of unproven at this point, wouldnt you say? Regardless of the speculation as to what it is, at the end of the day this is an import whose genetics are unknown.

Either way, I hope its something new. Congrats on your new project, and damnit Brock...how many different pies you gonna have your fingers in man?! lol

I am in the camp that butters and lessers are the same morph. I think that since they look the same and both of them can and do make the combo that has "daddy" before it as well as BELs with bug eyes it sure sounds the same to me.
I was looking at your site and you have some great stuff and I saw your AU caramels. Have you proved that out yet? I would also say that snake is probably in this group as well. I guess I am curious to see since you have a straberry cream, Ultramel, and AU caramel are you planning on breeding them together? I can see the fanancial reasons not to as having some of them being new morphs for as long as possible would make them worth more. The same thing worked well for the Butters.

Here is a pic that I hope helps with my point. These two snakes are both Lav Albinos. They are the same morph and all the babies would be Lavs. If you look at those two they look less like eachother than any of the snakes in the group we are talking about and yet no one is trying to call them seperate morphs.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...tiles/Lav1.jpg

Ryan Young

Looks cool but reminds me of an Utramel. You know how you test that theory? Well since Ultramels are Recessive, simply breed an Ultramel to it, if you the animals you get look like mom/dad then you have your answer.

Frankly, as an unproven morph (if it turns out to be genetic, I have no doubts that it will, but it is unproven) everyone is just guessing at this point.

To be honest, I hope it doesn't turn out to be co-dominate though.

Great looking snake! Thanks for sharing :gj:

Any chance for an eyeball shot?? :please:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ryan Young

I am in the camp that butters and lessers are the same morph. I think that since they look the same and both of them can and do make the combo that has "daddy" before it as well as BELs with bug eyes it sure sounds the same to me.
I was looking at your site and you have some great stuff and I saw your AU caramels. Have you proved that out yet? I would also say that snake is probably in this group as well. I guess I am curious to see since you have a straberry cream, Ultramel, and AU caramel are you planning on breeding them together? I can see the fanancial reasons not to as having some of them being new morphs for as long as possible would make them worth more. The same thing worked well for the Butters.

Here is a pic that I hope helps with my point. These two snakes are both Lav Albinos. They are the same morph and all the babies would be Lavs. If you look at those two they look less like eachother than any of the snakes in the group we are talking about and yet no one is trying to call them seperate morphs.

http://i15.photobucket.com/albums/a3...tiles/Lav1.jpg

Ryan Young

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I would have to agree, there are dirty dark pastels and very nice yellow bright pastels, I wouldnt call them different morphs because they look different, they are both still pastels. . . When I first started there were already enough morphs for me to try and remember and figure out now for all those newbies out there it just gets more confusing, I always have numerous emails in the inbox asking the difference between this and that. I have seen Pieds come from Africa mixed into bags with normals now you don't see people calling them something new because they are a new line of pieds from Africa they are still pieds. If a morph is really something different like blue, green and purple then prove it out and call it rainbow ball but if it is a snake that looks like a morph that is already proven then contact the breeder who produced it ask questions send them pictures, then prove yours out and see what comes of it. . . .just my two cents :)


All in all great project, again I'm betting it's recessive and i'm sure the snake has a bright future breeding with you guys. . . best of luck!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pavlovk1025

Noooo...thats about as dinker as a dinker gets.

Dinker = Unproven trait

Kind of unproven at this point, wouldnt you say? Regardless of the speculation as to what it is, at the end of the day this is an import whose genetics are unknown.

Either way, I hope its something new. Congrats on your new project, and damnit Brock...how many different pies you gonna have your fingers in man?! lol

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eh dinker to me means, normal that might have a slightly odd pattern or color, that could prove genetic.

they already said they thought this was a new line of ultramel or caramel or something ( dont remember exactly ). but yea, i consider dinkers to be at least fairly normal looking, this is hardly normal looking lol. something this far from the standard wild phenotype is pretty much guaranteed to be genetic.

at least thats my .02 on it

ps that thing is HOT

ok one last point then i am not going to keep this going. SO are all ghosts ghosts? I mean a ghost is a ghost and if you breed ghost to ghost you get all ghost every time

Ryan this is my only post back to you because I know that you can go on all day over your beloved Ultramel/Crider Caramel debate.

We have been contacted by several big breeders and they seem to think that it is a Toffee. That was my first reaction to the pictures that I saw first. We have considered that it might be a Ultramel but after detailed scrutiny and analysis we thought no it is not. Truth be told no one including yourself knows what it is. The fun part for us is to breed her out and make babies and see if she is a Toffee or a Ultramel or God forbid something new. She is very exciting for us and we look forward to making more of her as she is just a stunning snake.

If you care to keep at it that is fine just respect us enough to know that we are happy with her and can't wait to find out what she is as we don't CLAIM to know anything about her genetics yet.

And for the record I think it would be awesome if she was a Codom or Dominant.

Thanks for reading.
Brock

Wow she's awesome! What does she weigh?

very nice snake

Can't wait to see it in a clown.........

Jason

she's absolutely gorgeous!

I really can't wait to grow my collection. Slim and Freddie will have more friends soon enough lol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Brock Wagner

Ryan this is my only post back to you because I know that you can go on all day over your beloved Ultramel/Crider Caramel debate.

We have been contacted by several big breeders and they seem to think that it is a Toffee. That was my first reaction to the pictures that I saw first. We have considered that it might be a Ultramel but after detailed scrutiny and analysis we thought no it is not. Truth be told no one including yourself knows what it is. The fun part for us is to breed her out and make babies and see if she is a Toffee or a Ultramel or God forbid something new. She is very exciting for us and we look forward to making more of her as she is just a stunning snake.

If you care to keep at it that is fine just respect us enough to know that we are happy with her and can't wait to find out what she is as we don't CLAIM to know anything about her genetics yet.

And for the record I think it would be awesome if she was a Codom or Dominant.

Thanks for reading.
Brock

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Well said, I would like to appologize if I came off to anyone as not being happy for your guys jealous or just trying to rain on someones parade,never my intent. I would be very happy too, shes awesome and I also think it would be sweet if she was CO-DOM... Imagine what the supers would look like!!! SMOKIN!!!!

:O She is just so beautiful!! Very soft look to her coloring!! Congrats!!

She is very very beautiful. There is a lot of validity in having different lines of what are essentially the same morphs (some pastels maybe or some of the ghosts) but until someone gets into DNA testing we will not really know for some considerable time if a beauty like this is a new genetic variation or just a visual variation on the same genetic mutation-testing by breeding out is a slow process... In any case she is absoultely stunning and I for one don't care if she has an already established mutation or a new one-I just wish she was in my house... If she doesn't prove out as a genetic mutation I would be perfectly happy to give her a home!