I cutted the eggs earlier =S help

Hey there!!

Well this is my story hope you can help me...

At day 45 of incubation I made one slit to only one egg, it looked good and was alive, I just colocated him to a rack with ventilation and humidity at 65%

at day 50 I saw that it began to appear a grey liquid in the egg and it was a little dry, I didn´t do anything. At the same day I made the slits to the other 4 eggs of the clutch.

Now is the day 52 of incubation, the first egg I had make the slit is dead, is the first time I produce ball python eggs so I don´t know what I did to make the first baby die =S

I don´t want that the other 4 die too, so mm well I colocated them again into the incubator and refill them with a saline solution (whey).

What cares do I need to do to don´t let them die?? =S=S

You took the eggs out of the incubator tub after you slit them? That is what it sounds like. :confused:

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Originally Posted by Danounet

You took the eggs out of the incubator tub after you slit them? That is what it sounds like. :confused:

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Yes I did that with the egg that I cutted at day 46...the one that died..

The other 4 eggs I cutted at day 50 but they are still in the incubator..

What do you mean by colocated? It's a word, but not one that even remotely makes sense....

I can think of several things that killed that egg. Cutting too early, bacteria, moving (relocated?). Someone who's actually had eggs will chime in, I'm sure.


Edit:
Wait, why did you take the first egg out? After it was dead? Or before?

You need to keep the eggs in the incubator once you have cut them. They will leave the egg once all the yoke is absorbed. At this point you can move them into a rack.

I can not tell you why the first snake died. You cut the eggs a little early but not that early. Usually you would cut between 52-55 days. Cutting at 45 days should not have caused the snake to die, but the problems occurs when the fluid in the egg dries up and the snake is not finsihed absorbing the yoke. The grey matter you saw in the fluid was mold. I have seen other people cut eggs early with a large opening and the eggs grew mold quickly. Although the mold grew the snakes are not absorbing the fluid only the yoke, so they were fine and all survived. If you allowed the fluid to dry up it could of been the cause of the snakes death. Keep the other eggs fluid level up while they finish absorbing their yoke. Saline is a good thing to use. Good luck

Matt

I think they mean relocated..

Like I said to you earlier. Make sure those eggs are kept in the incubator. Make sure they do not dry out. Use distilled water or saline to keep some fluid in the eggs. Cover them with damp paper towel to keep babies inside and some bacteria out. Wait and hope.. Thats all you can do at this point. Just next time dont cut so soon and you wont lose any.

Sorry to hear about your misadventures.
Yet another reason not to cut early.

Cutting is ridiculous unless you have a reason to cut. If you do not know what you are doing, why cut? You cannot wait to see what you got, well, now you got a dead Ball. They take 55 days or so to hatch, if you cut the eggs before that, that means you made a slit in the membrane before the snake has fully developed.....You waited 45 days, couldn't wait 10 more?

I will stop before I get into trouble....

Cutting at day 45 is not the problem at all.

For the so called egg cutting experts, theres many that cut before day 45 and never have a snake die or come out early. Stop following a unwritten book about eggs. Its all Trial and error just like their husbandry.

That egg more than likely died due to drying out too fast in short period of time. You can take eggs out and put them in tubs as long as its humid like the egg box and warm.

Sounds like the egg dried out to me. Cutting without knowing what you were doing is a bad idea, maybe you cut out a chunk instead of a tiny slit and let it get too dry.

Second, why did you move it? Leave it in the incubator. Although under the correct circumstances you can do with the tub, if you don't know what you're doing it's best to just leave them be.

Make sure the others stay in the incubator, keep them moist, and don't cut chunks out of your eggs and they should pop out on their own once they're done absorbing the yoke.

Good luck.

I think folks with limited experience should hold off on cutting eggs until they become more experienced. I personally don't cut until very late, if at all. I won't tell others what to do but I would definietly recommend a newbie let them hatch on their own.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Cutting at day 45 is not the problem at all.

For the so called egg cutting experts, theres many that cut before day 45 and never have a snake die or come out early. Stop following a unwritten book about eggs. Its all Trial and error just like their husbandry.

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I just want to say thank you for pointing out that nothing is written in stone regarding Ball Pythons.
All I can say is research as much as possible and take in everything. Once you've done that make an educated decision before proceeding.

What works for some may blow up in the face of others.


Gavin

Just because someone else cuts at Day 45 or earlier with no problems does not mean that everyone should. I don't care who cuts at Day 45 or even Day 30 as I saw mentioned earlier - at what cost? Just because someone is too impatient to see what they have?

What possible benefit is there to cut so darn early? Any benefit at ALL to the snake? :confused:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Just because someone else cuts at Day 45 or earlier with no problems does not mean that everyone should. I don't care who cuts at Day 45 or even Day 30 as I saw mentioned earlier - at what cost? Just because someone is too impatient to see what they have?

What possible benefit is there to cut so darn early? Any benefit at ALL to the snake? :confused:

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Bravo.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Just because someone else cuts at Day 45 or earlier with no problems does not mean that everyone should. I don't care who cuts at Day 45 or even Day 30 as I saw mentioned earlier - at what cost? Just because someone is too impatient to see what they have?

What possible benefit is there to cut so darn early? Any benefit at ALL to the snake? :confused:

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It obviously dont hurt the snake as ive had not one die from cutting day 45-50 ever.

Like i stated before, show me where it says we MUST cut this day. Everything you or I can pull up is from others Trial and Error from that persons experience.

We still havent figured out what this species requires to fully thrive. We just do what works best with tweaking here and there.

EDIT- Never have i encouraged someone to cut early cause i have never had a problem. ITs their choice not ours, but seems when one does they jump their throat saying they have done wrong by doing so.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

It obviously dont hurt the snake as ive had not one die from cutting day 45-50 ever.

Like i stated before, show me where it says we MUST cut this day. Everything you or I can pull up is from others Trial and Error from that persons experience.

We still havent figured out what this species requires to fully thrive. We just do what works best with tweaking here and there.

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You neglected to answer what is the benefit to cutting early...other than satisfying your shorten, or lack of, patience...

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

It obviously dont hurt the snake as ive had not one die from cutting day 45-50 ever.

Like i stated before, show me where it says we MUST cut this day. Everything you or I can pull up is from others Trial and Error from that persons experience.

We still havent figured out what this species requires to fully thrive. We just do what works best with tweaking here and there.

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Again - what BENEFIT is it to the health of the egg or the snake to cut THAT early?

WHY cut that early? What reasons do YOU have for cutting that early when left to their own devices, they hatch later than that?

I'm really not trying to be confrontational - I seriously want to know husbandry wise, why one would choose to cut that early?

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Again - what BENEFIT is it to the health of the egg or the snake to cut THAT early?

WHY cut that early? What reasons do YOU have for cutting that early when left to their own devices, they hatch later than that?

I'm really not trying to be confrontational - I seriously want to know husbandry wise, why one would choose to cut that early?

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I cut that early as its what i do. And not one problem has arose from it. Thats why i do it. There is no benifit or downfall to doing it at 45.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

I cut that early as its what i do. And not one problem has arose from it. Thats why i do it. There is no benifit or downfall to doing it at 45.

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You're still not answering WHY you choose to cut that early? I'm seriously trying to understand that part. Is it because you can't wait seven days longer to cut at day 52? Is it because John (Jas) does it (I saw you cited him as doing so in an earlier post)?

My personal opinion, I think you've been very lucky cutting that early - there's too much of a window of opportunity for harmful bacteria to get into the egg while the snake continues to mature for another week to ten days. Even cutting at Day 52, my eggs can get pretty ugly on the inside by the time the babies decide to exit their eggs, I can't imagine how they'd be with another week exposed to "the elements". And I don't even cut windows, I cut small "V's" to allow the snake to sucessfully exit the egg.

What one chooses to do with their eggs is entirely their business, but I think encouraging others to make risky calculations like this and stating unequivacally that there's no problem with doing so, is not the best advice to give - especially with all the newer breeders emerging each year with zero prior experience that look to these forums for advice.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

It obviously dont hurt the snake as ive had not one die from cutting day 45-50 ever.

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How many eggs have you personally cut at Day 45?

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Originally Posted by rabernet

How many eggs have you personally cut at Day 45?

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Day 45 i have cut 9 clutches in last 3 years. Day 50 ive cut about the same. Both being cut 5 days apart normally come out day 53-55

If I am not mistaken, the OP removed the egg from the incubator after cutting. If you did, I can just about promise that is why it died. The developing babies need the heat and humidity, take that away and the baby will die.

You need to study some more on taking care of your eggs and hatchlings, I think. This should never have been an issue, cutting early or not. If you didn't know enough to leave the baby in the incubator, you really need to learn more about this process. Period.

Gale

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

I cut that early as its what i do. And not one problem has arose from it. Thats why i do it. There is no benifit or downfall to doing it at 45.

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But why is it what you do? What made you decide that Day 45 was preferable to waiting for Day 52? You seem to be avoiding answering that question directly, but instead sort of dance around it, without any real substance as to why you've decided that Day 45 is the best business practice for Rich's Ball Pythons.

I really am trying to understand why one makes the decision to cut that early.

There must be "some" benefit for you personally, otherwise, why do it? Is it the benefit of seeing the babies a week earlier? Is it the coolness factor of being "cutting edge" and doing something others don't generally do?

Again, I'm not trying to be sarcastic or confrontational - perhaps it's my psychology degree being put to work, trying to understand why certain decisions are made.

I can tell you why I choose to cut on Day 52 - it's because I've seen drowned babies in eggs that were unable to cut their way out of the egg (not mine, but one of the big breeders), so I chose Day 52 to cut, because that's around the time that most of mine will start to pip (give or take a day or two). My decision to cut is to help prevent avoidable deaths in the egg.

Last season I made a mistake and cut a clutch at day 45, fortunately none of my snakes died, but there was many bacteria and fungi colonies growing on the eggs at the time of ''birth''. I personally think cutting that early is for sure very risky.

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Originally Posted by angllady2

You need to study some more on taking care of your eggs and hatchlings, I think. This should never have been an issue, cutting early or not. If you didn't know enough to leave the baby in the incubator, you really need to learn more about this process. Period.

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So where can I do this?

Ahh with spring comes the cutting threads.:D

I rarely ever cut and when I do it because others in the clutch have pipped. For the reasons Robin mentioned I want to make sure someone isn't trapped in an egg, which has never been the case.

Everyone does their own thing but I dont see the benefit of cutting a bacteria free sealed egg prior to the snakes use and need of it. I dont want to deal with mold or bacteria or be concerned its drying out or the fluid has turned to smelly muck. I am too busy for that stuff. I have hundreds of animals to look after (plus two jobs, family) and I am not interested in having to take care of any that havent even got out of the egg yet!
So no Edward Scissor Hands here.

I have many friends that are cutters but thats not how I roll.
To each there own.

Here's a man with a lot of experience. Just thought I would share since I read this thread earlier and I just read this...

http://snakebytes.tumblr.com/post/60.../odds-can-suck

Nobody's mentioned incubating temps...they are definitely something to consider when talking about cutting eggs...

well guess ill put in my two cents.....i am a first time breeder this year (13 laid 13 hatched, well 2 are still in the egg but soon out) and i cut on the day the first one pip which was like day 55. what you did was wrong and if you had done ANY studying at all you would have known that this was wrong, i mean why else would we build incubators that will hold heat and humity for long periods of time? so maybe next season you could browse the stickys that are all over the web site you just listed on and asked where you can get info on this, oh and for stuff that is not sticky there is a search button for us to use when we need it because im sure there is someone that already made this mistake and that are ready to help..... ask questions just like you did here. good luck with the rest of them:gj:



as for 45 day cutting i agree it seems like its a lil early to me too because if they were ready to come out they would pip thus the reason im a first pip kinda person, BUT ive only had one clutch and it was a classic x classic breeding so i already knew nothing was there, so i dont know the felling of having a high dollar snake coming, so i guess id have to be there but i would also feel bad if i killed that high dollar snake because i couldnt wait, so i guess people cut on day 45 cuz they got bux coming if the right thing is there....i guess.:confused:

I say cutting it killed it,wait till they pip then cut.anything before 50 is risky I think, but what do II know lol

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Originally Posted by sho220

nobody's mentioned incubating temps...they are definitely something to consider when talking about cutting eggs...

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yep day 50 if cooked at 89-90 degrees,any less oh no!

I think it was moving it out of the incubator. Cutting that early is risky but Ive rarely heard of it killing a snake. However, taking eggs out of the incubator would definitely do it.

ok i am also a first time breeder and did lost of research before i decided to go into breeding my snakes i have one cluch cooking right now its not that he cut the egg its that he took it out of the incubator i have friends that will cut day 30 or day 45 not for me i will wait til they pip but everyones different if u do chose to cut early make sure u can close it back and leave it in the incubator no need to move it oonly move it when its fully out of the egg and roaming around

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Originally Posted by stevepoppers

So where can I do this?

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There are lots of books on the subject of reptile breeding as well as tons of information on the internet, you just have to look.

First we'll talk about books. There are lots of books on reptile breeding as well as ball pythons specifically. If for some reason you cannot afford to buy a book, that is what libraries are for.

Next, the internet. This one is trickier, since there is a lot of dubious information on the 'net. But, you can visit any one of the big ball python breeders websites and find a wealth of information on breeding. If you don't know who the biggest breeders are, you can ask. Ralph Davis, NERD,and 8-ball, are just three of them, there are dozens more. There is also a ton of information on this site. It is very easy to do a search here and find out anything you need to know.

I am sorry if I came off a little bossy or rude in my first post. And I am sorry you lost that baby, I know it must have been difficult for you. But people who breed a pet without learning what they need to know really rub me the wrong way. I saw too much of it when I used to breed birds, I guess.

The good news is, you can learn form your mistakes and hopefully not repeat them. You have a chance to do right by the rest of your babies by taking the time to learn what you need to do to care for them.

One site that was helpful to me was 8-Ball pythons: http://www.8ballpythons.com/journal.htm

Gale

Curiosity killed the cat and you killed your snake. I don't understand why people can't just wait for the darn things to hatch on their own.

Alote of info hear.:gj:

Gale,

Thanks a lot. I've been reading about these animals for a few weeks now online, and I still don't know much about breeding. I just came across the thread about washing and disinfecting the tub after the female lays the eggs, because the smell will keep her off feed. I had no idea, and haven't seen that kind of detail anywhere else. I'll check out the breeder sites.

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Originally Posted by angllady2

If I am not mistaken, the OP removed the egg from the incubator after cutting. If you did, I can just about promise that is why it died. The developing babies need the heat and humidity, take that away and the baby will die.

You need to study some more on taking care of your eggs and hatchlings, I think. This should never have been an issue, cutting early or not. If you didn't know enough to leave the baby in the incubator, you really need to learn more about this process. Period.

Gale

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amen, common sense tells you to leave it in there til the snake is out of egg. or so i would have thought.

as for egg cutting, id have to agree on waiting longer to cut, especially if its your first time, id say at least wait til 1 pips then cut the rest

UPDATE...

Another egg just died, it had to much mold..

2 dead - 3 alive

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Originally Posted by rabernet

You're still not answering WHY you choose to cut that early? I'm seriously trying to understand that part. Is it because you can't wait seven days longer to cut at day 52? Is it because John (Jas) does it (I saw you cited him as doing so in an earlier post)?

My personal opinion, I think you've been very lucky cutting that early - there's too much of a window of opportunity for harmful bacteria to get into the egg while the snake continues to mature for another week to ten days. Even cutting at Day 52, my eggs can get pretty ugly on the inside by the time the babies decide to exit their eggs, I can't imagine how they'd be with another week exposed to "the elements". And I don't even cut windows, I cut small "V's" to allow the snake to sucessfully exit the egg.

What one chooses to do with their eggs is entirely their business, but I think encouraging others to make risky calculations like this and stating unequivacally that there's no problem with doing so, is not the best advice to give - especially with all the newer breeders emerging each year with zero prior experience that look to these forums for advice.

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I agree with Robin pretty much. Cutting at 45 days serves no benefit for the snake. No Ball is going to looking to come out at 45-50 days --regardless of cooking temps.

I cut most of my eggs -- NONE outside a 3-5 day window of them coming COMPLETELY OUT on their own. I cook at 87 degrees. My guys are coming out at around 58-61 days. I am not cutting these days until 56 days or later. I leave ALL my hatchlings in their egg box on fresh wet paper towels and water dish until AFTER their fist shed.

Cutting 10+ days before snakes would pip on their own serves no purpose other than WE want to see inside earlier than would be "best"!!! ;)

Very good info on this thread. Thanks!!!:gj:

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Originally Posted by Bill Buchman

I leave ALL my hatchlings in their egg box on fresh wet paper towels and water dish until AFTER their fist shed.

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That's a confusing sentence...could you please clarify? Thanks

i think he means that after they hatch and come out of the eggs on their own, he cleans them and the egg box, and leaves them in it (in or out of the incubator i dont know but i would think OUT of it) with wet paper towels, high humidity, and a water dish, until they shed, then probably moves them to their own respective tubs. hope that helped, i dont know what you didnt get about it so i hope i didnt offend you or anything. :D

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Originally Posted by m0esgirl

(in or out of the incubator i dont know but i would think OUT of it)

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That was the confusing part. I read it as back in the incubator they go...after they've come out of the egg. :confused:

why couldnt they go back into the incubator? its warm, humid, secure..

On cutting, I had a one egg clutch this year, my first clutch. When I set up my incubator this year, ok, plugged it in, it was reading about 87 degrees, a bit cool. I do not like to change temps on the Helix unless I am here all day, so it would not get too hot, and over 90. So, I kept forgetting to change it for a few weeks. So, my one egg incubated at 87 for a couple of weeks. At day 60, when he had not pipped, I cut the egg. Day 60 for me is a cut off day, where, if the baby has not pipped by then, there could be a problem, therefore, I cut the egg. HOWEVER, what I forgot about on day 60 was, the fact that the baby cooked for a couple of weeks at a lower temp, so day 60 was really like day 52-54, if it would have cooked at 90 degrees the whole time. (It is set at 88.9 degrees now) Anyways, no issues, the baby is fine, and should be doing his first shed in the next few days.

I would say, don't cut unless some of the babies have come out of the egg, and say one is still not pipping....could be an issue. Cutting day 45 if you are incubating cool, is early, way too early in my opinion. If you have incubated at around 90 degrees, and it is day 60, and you want to cut because you fear there is a problem, I have no issue with that. Cutting to see what you got, on day 40-50 is just assinine if you want to know how I feel. Too many newbies butcher eggs to be like their Ball breeding idols.

Dave

thats right i don t see why u could not put them back in the incubator on wet paper towels until they shed and then move them if it was good enofe for them to hatch in i dont why they cant correct me if im wrong

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Originally Posted by davidnizmo

thats right i don t see why u could not put them back in the incubator on wet paper towels until they shed and then move them if it was good enofe for them to hatch in i dont why they cant correct me if im wrong

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It Can be done as long as you exchange air or have fresh air circulating in the incubator. Other wise you have babies that will run out of air if not checked upon after so long.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

It Can be done as long as you exchange air or have fresh air circulating in the incubator. Other wise you have babies that will run out of air if not checked upon after so long.

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ok so as long as u open them up a couple times a day it will be ok then to do that i will move mine into tubs when they come out just was checkin on that for sure thanks rick for the input