Bright Bumblebee

I had bought a spider male about 4 weeks ago and have been contemplating on what type of pastel should I go with to get a bright yellow not light. Lemon, super, jungle or regular pastel?


like:
http://www.ballpythonaddiction.com/w...-1280x1024.jpg
http://www.reptileclassifieds.co.uk/...sex__20915.asp
http://www.proexotics.com/retail_pro...blebee_jpg.jpg
http://www.newenglandreptile.com/gal..._bee/BB8-L.jpg

dislike:
http://thumb1.shutterstock.com.edges...d-23998117.jpg
http://www.theroyalpython.com/images.../Bumblebee.jpg
http://www.ballpython777.com/bumbleb...ebodygreen.jpg

I will be putting pics up of my snake and setup as soon as he gets out of shed. Beautiful little boy though!

You forgot blond and graziani :P

In my opinion you should go with a lemon. I think they are a higher quality pastel and most people would agree. Lemons can be "ruined" by people breeding a lemon pastel to a dark normal. If you don't buy it directly from NERD be sure to see pictures of both parents. It's not a fool proof way of making sure you have a nice pastel, but it's better than nothing! Your bumblebee will look really nice as a baby, but he will dull like every other ball. You need a pastel that will keep its' color with age, lemons are well known for holding on to their color.

The super won't do anything for the color unless it's a high quality pastel to begin with. The super will make killerbees when bred to a spider though.

i was just trying to knock out the major ones. Let ppl fill in the blanks.


Thx for the good info. I have my brother also voting for the lemon. I'm just worried about the offspring's color not being vivid enough but more so that lighter yellow that you see on some bumblebees.

those first two you showed actually looked liked the were brightened up a bit. Maybe not...just looked pretty unreal yellow. Could just be me! The last two were beautiful examples and much more realistic looking to me. ;)

As for the pastel....I ask myself the same thing everyday!!! lol Im thinking super or lemon...:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

You forgot blond and graziani :P

In my opinion you should go with a lemon. I think they are a higher quality pastel and most people would agree. Lemons can be "ruined" by people breeding a lemon pastel to a dark normal. If you don't buy it directly from NERD be sure to see pictures of both parents. It's not a fool proof way of making sure you have a nice pastel, but it's better than nothing! Your bumblebee will look really nice as a baby, but he will dull like every other ball. You need a pastel that will keep its' color with age, lemons are well known for holding on to their color.

The super won't do anything for the color unless it's a high quality pastel to begin with. The super will make killerbees when bred to a spider though.

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would only make bees

bees and pastels would be the result of a spider x super pastel

I'm voting either super pastel or lemon pastel. I hope you can find what you are looking for, and good luck in your search.

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

those first two you showed actually looked liked the were brightened up a bit. Maybe not...just looked pretty unreal yellow. Could just be me! The last two were beautiful examples and much more realistic looking to me. ;)

As for the pastel....I ask myself the same thing everyday!!! lol Im thinking super or lemon...:rolleyes:

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First one definitely, second one idk the black could be bring out more of the yellow in the camera.

I'm leaning more towards the lemon but probably going to come down to price difference.

Lemon!

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Originally Posted by BAMReptiles

would only make bees

bees and pastels would be the result of a spider x super pastel

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Ummmm no. Spider x pastel would be bumble bees. Spider x super pastel would be killer bees (and yes of course bumble bees and pastels also). How do you think killerbees are made?

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Originally Posted by BaDw0Lf

i was just trying to knock out the major ones. Let ppl fill in the blanks.


Thx for the good info. I have my brother also voting for the lemon. I'm just worried about the offspring's color not being vivid enough but more so that lighter yellow that you see on some bumblebees.

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Just make sure you get a good quality pastel! If you were going for a really light pastel a blond would be your snake of choice, but they don't tend to hold on to their color, from what I've seen. Like I said though, lemons can be ruined by breeding to dark normals so watch out for that. I would also steer clear of any pastel under $100, they are poor quality and the breeder knows it.

hihi. that is incorrect.

Super pastel x spider does NOT give killerbees.

killerbee is made from bumble x pastel or bumble x anything with pastel.

Both parents need to have the pastel gene in order to make the super.
You'd have to re-read your genetics on Co-Dominance on that one.

Anything bred to a super pastel would produce AT LEAST pastels, but no supers.

greets,

Yaron

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

Ummmm no. Spider x pastel would be bumble bees. Spider x super pastel would be killer bees (and yes of course bumble bees and pastels also). How do you think killerbees are made?

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Ah, no. He's right. A "super pastel" bred to a spider should theoretically produce 50% bees, 50% pastels. It cannot produce killerbees.

This is why I kind of hate all the silly fancy names that we come up with for ball pythons -- they aren't descriptive of the GENES behind the color patterns, and it confuses people.

"Killerbee" refers to a "super pastel spider:" an animal that is homozygous for the pastel gene and heterozygous for the spider gene.

"Bumblebee" refers to an animal that is heterozygous for both the spider and pastel genes.

"Super pastel" refers to an animal that is homozygous for the pastel gene.

A regular (non-bumblebee) spider does not carry any copies of the pastel gene. It is heterozygous for the spider gene.

In order to produce an animal that is homozygous for a certain mutation (such as pastel), BOTH PARENTS much carry at least one copy of that gene. A homozygous animal had to get a copy of that mutated gene from each parent -- one from mom and one from dad.

It is impossible to produce a "homozygous mutation" animal by breeding an animal that is homozygous for the mutation to an animal that carries no copies of the mutation gene (is "homozygous normal"). If that were the case, we could produce pieds, albinos, and other recessive traits by breeding them to (non-het) normals.

A homozygous animal will provide all of its offspring with one copy of the gene it is homozygous for.

Therefore, you cannot produce a "killerbee" (homozygous pastel) unless EACH parent carries at least copy of the pastel gene. Killerbees can be made by breeding a bumblebee to a pastel, or to a super pastel, or to another bumblebee, etc., etc., but each parent has to have a copy of the pastel gene to pass on to the offspring.

Even a killerbee couldn't reproduce itself when bred to a normal (non-pastel) animal -- it would produce bees and pastels (no spiders or normals), but also no "super pastels" or other killerbees.

Sorry if that came off as a bit of a rant, but I sometimes get frustrated because we've got all these silly fancy names for these animals, and I think they confuse people as to what the genetics behind them really are. (And since you "corrected" someone else's correct information, I made it a little over-long, ha ha ha ...)

I don't think it's your fault; it's easy to see how you got confused -- but you have to look at it in terms of the genetics behind it instead of names ("killerbee" may be a "super pastel spider" -- argh -- but you can't make one by breeding a super pastel TO a spider).

To the OP, if it were me I'd just find the brightest-looking pastel you can (preferably from someone who can provide you with pictures of the parents, which should also be bright) and go with that. It seems to me that a lot of people like to stick the word "lemon" in front of their pastel to describe anything that's fairly light-colored and busy, even if they don't actually know the bloodline.

Also, I suspect that the brightness of your spider will also play a big part in how bright your bees are -- I would bet that a bright spider makes brighter bees than a dull spider, even if you're using a bright pastel.

And Ntume said in about four lines what it took me a page to write in the meantime, ha ha ha ... :rolleyes:

Ok *puts foot in mouth*

I double checked NERD, they have the genetics as "Dominate spider and Codominate Super pastel" instead of "bumble bee and super pastel." I forgot about needing both copies of pastel to make killers......

Never mind me *bag over head* :stupidme:

Um a killerbee could produce spiders, pastels or bumble bees if bred to a normal.

Mike Willbanks bred a Black Widow X Normal and produced a 5 egg clutch that consisted of 1.0 Black Widow 0.1 Black Pewter 1.0 Bumble Bee 0.1 Black Pastel 1.0 Spider. Hows that for odds?

I believe his Black Widow is a Black Pastel Lemon Pastel Spider

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Um a killerbee could produce spiders, pastels or bumble bees if bred to a normal.

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Nope, no regular spiders -- just bumblebees and pastels.

The killerbee is homozygous for pastel on the pastel locus (meaning that it has two pastel alleles) -- it has no normal genes to give. It can ONLY give a pastel gene to its offspring, so all of the offspring, if bred to a normal, will have to have the pastel gene.

On the spider locus, the killerbee has two different alleles: a spider allele and an normal allele. So, it can give either a spider or a normal allele at that locus.

So, since all of the offspring have to have a pastel gene, but may or may not have the spider gene, they will either be pastels or "bumblebees." There won't be any normals or regular spiders.

I've never heard of the Black Widow -- have to Google that one! ;)

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

Nope, no regular spiders -- just bumblebees and pastels.

The killerbee is homozygous for pastel on the pastel locus (meaning that it has two pastel alleles) -- it has no normal genes to give. It can ONLY give a pastel gene to its offspring, so all of the offspring, if bred to a normal, will have to have the pastel gene.

On the spider locus, the killerbee has two different alleles: a spider allele and an normal allele. So, it can give either a spider or a normal allele at that locus.

So, since all of the offspring have to have a pastel gene, but may or may not have the spider gene, they will either be pastels or "bumblebees." There won't be any normals or regular spiders.

I've never heard of the Black Widow -- have to Google that one! ;)

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Spiders are a dom morph. So yes any bee combo will possibly throw out a spider.

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Originally Posted by TessadasExotics

Spiders are a dom morph. So yes any bee combo will possibly throw out a spider.

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As stated above, You can only produce Pastels and Bumble Bees when breeding a Killer Bee to a Normal..

The Super Pastel gene causes everything in the clutch to be at least Pastels...If the Spider gene pops up it can only be in a Bumble Bee.

Is everybody confused about genetics?

NERD's are most probably lemon pastels.
A young bee will be brighter yellow than an older bee.

Let us know what you decide.

im glad im a genetics wizard and just naturally get all that stuff. lol. and yes a killer bee to ANYTHING will ALWAYS add at the bare minimum the pastel gene to it.

if anyone is still in doubt http://www.worldofballpythons.com/wizard/

and a black widow is a black pastel pastel spider, or a black pewter bee