aggresive baby ball

Hey guys i just bought a ball python almost a month ago and i havent been able to get near him to handle him.Even if i get close to cage he will strike at side of cage to get me im looking for suggestions on what i can do to overcome this.I dont want to get rid of him i just want to try and break him of it i appreciate any suggestions thanks to all

try bagging him first then handling him out of the bag. For example cover him with a bag/bandana to get a hold of him and hold him until he calms and slowly uncover him. Until your holding him without the bag.

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Originally Posted by dietz3d

Hey guys i just bought a ball python almost a month ago and i havent been able to get near him to handle him.Even if i get close to cage he will strike at side of cage to get me im looking for suggestions on what i can do to overcome this.I dont want to get rid of him i just want to try and break him of it i appreciate any suggestions thanks to all

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tell us EVERYTHING about your set up:

what is he in?
what are the temperatures (hot,cool and ambient)
what are you using to measure those temps
what hides does he have
are they identical
how old is he
how long have you had him
when did he last eat

etc

well as of right now he is in a ten gallon tank he is maybe about 15-16 inches if that he has a nice hide rock on one side with his water bowl on the other i have a climbing stick in there as well i have had him for about amonth and he feeds once a week he feeds great the temps are in the 80s hot spot high 80s and cool side is high 70s i have a digital therm in there alond with 2 other stick on therm

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Originally Posted by dietz3d

well as of right now he is in a ten gallon tank he is maybe about 15-16 inches if that he has a nice hide rock on one side with his water bowl on the other i have a climbing stick in there as well i have had him for about amonth and he feeds once a week he feeds great the temps are in the 80s hot spot high 80s and cool side is high 70s i have a digital therm in there alond with 2 other stick on therm

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ok,ditch the stick ons.. They are made to read water temperature :)

It sounds like he might be stressed. This is what I'd do:

- cover 2 sides and the back of his tank with a jungle background or black construction paper. this will help him feel more secure
- make sure he is in a low traffic area
- make sure hes not getting exposed to too much light
- get him another hide. Balls don't really climb so he doesn't need the stick, you can leave it in there but hiding is what bps do 95% of the time.


what are you using to heat him?

Cinderbird is right on with all the schematics. If you get those details on point and still have a problem (do you have a bush baby?) you will need to handle him more often to promote docility.

ok he is in my room so it is very low traffic right now i have a under tank heat mat and a heat lamp i use a 50 watt bulb during day and a 50w infared at night if temp gets to chilly in there but most times i leave the infared one in there all the time

Well the only way to fix it is to hold him. All you need to do is just open up the tank and just open your hand as wide as possibly and just pick him up. Because of how fast you go in and pick him up, they usually never strike. Personally i use this method or i just pick them up from behind.

is once a week feedings to much do you guys think he should be in a bigger tank as of now i am searching for bigger tanks just wondering if you think like he should get a bigger asap i really do appreciate all your guys comments

when i do feed him i remove him from the tank and feed him in a box many people have told me about this is that an ok practice of feeding them the people said he will learn to associate the box with feeding and not something coming into his tank

do you have something regulating the under tank heater and the lights? a dimmer or thermostat (reptile thermostats, highly recomend over a dimmer, personally).

Where is the probe on the thermometer you're using? How deep is the substrate?

There is no need to move them to a different box to feed, some people do, but with balls it generally seems to cause more feeding problems than it solves. "cage aggression" is a myth.

What size prey are you feeding him? Even hatchlings can take hopper mice, and within a few meals quickly move up to adult mice.

i try to get him a big hopper once a week the substate is a bout an inch and a half the probe is about inch off of substate near his hide and that is where the under tank heater is and i just moniter the temps alot but they never seem to get to high yet to turn any thing off

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Originally Posted by dietz3d

i try to get him a big hopper once a week the substate is a bout an inch and a half the probe is about inch off of substate near his hide and that is where the under tank heater is and i just moniter the temps alot but they never seem to get to high yet to turn any thing off

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the thermometer probe really should be on the uth itself, or directly on the glass above it. The substrate may really be hotter than you currently think it is, the snake can also move it or pee on it which will cause a lot of flucuations that may cause stress and could certinly cause burns.

I'd try fixing those things, give him a week with no handling and then start handling in slow positive sessions. a bite from a baby bp won't cause you any harm. If its really a problem use some gloves to pick him up. I wouldn't use a towel or anything because their teeth may get caught in the loops and they are very fragile.

Some of them, that's just what they do at that age. They're not tame right out of the shell, and you need to let them learn that you're (a) harmless and (b) not food.

What are you feeding him? Feed the little guy, and keep feeding him until he's done eating. Handle him every other day, with gloves if you don't like being bitten, and DON'T put him back in his cage when he bites/hisses/strikes. That's just rewarding bad behavior. Let him get the aggression out of his system, and then let him explore you, and maybe your desk or a bookshelf. If you don't mind being bitten--if you can keep from getting angry at him--let him bite your fingers. At that age they're always hungry, and sometimes they honestly don't know the difference between human fingers and mouse noses until they've chomped down a few times. Sometimes it's a few dozen times.

If he does ball up on you, find his tail, hook your little finger 3/4 of the way down, and hold him up from there. They usually unball at that point and start exploring again.

I think environment has been covered, but I do have one question: how much STUFF does he have in his tank? ...do you just have the one hide? Add some cardboard tubes and fake plants. The glass really freaks them out at that age, and the more stuff he has, the happy he'll be.

You can also move the tank to a low-traffic area of the house for a few months. But I'm afraid I'm a big meanie about the striking-when-I-walk-past: I tend to stand there and wiggle my fingers at them, and let them just go silly. After they've banged their noses sufficiently on the glass, they figure out there's a barrier, and they give it up. THIS OPINION IS MY OWN, AND LIKELY NOT THE OPINION OF THE BP.NET FORUMS OVERALL. :)

By the way, if he ever gets so stressed that instead of balling, he just sits there shaking his tail like a rattlesnake and striking striking striking like he's having a seizure, then YES, it is DEFINITELY time to put him back. Put him back, put his tank in a back room, and leave him alone for several days.

I've only had one animal do that, and it was right after shipping. But I never want to see it again.

U could try some leather gloves or just deal with being bit but the more you handle him/her the less likely it will be to strike

You only have 1 hide? Thats a problem as well.

Get another hide. They need 2 (one on hot end and one on the cold end).

Seems to me he is pissy because of the husbandry. Fix that then give him some time alone. Make him comfortable in his new home before he tries to get comfortable with you.

Its a lot for a new pet to take in... Trust needs to time to develop.

You can feed inside the tank, as BP's don't get cage aggression like other snakes might. We were also told to feed outside of the enclosure for that reason, in all reality all it does is stress the snake more. There are a lot of uneducated people out there who don't give the best advice when it comes to the care of a BP. Here tho, you'll not only get awesome advice, but awesome support.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dietz3d

when i do feed him i remove him from the tank and feed him in a box many people have told me about this is that an ok practice of feeding them the people said he will learn to associate the box with feeding and not something coming into his tank

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I would try using a snake hook and taking him out of tank then try picking him up. if you dont have a hook..... dont laugh...... use a hanger and form it into a hook or place a small towel over his head. dont give up! babies tend to be alittle snappy remember you are 100 times bigger then him so you are consider a threat for "NOW". when was the last time it ate? what is your temps reading? do you have hide spots? if you do get tagged trust me it wont hurt, I am more scared of the strike ( because it's sooooo quick and the snake geting mouth rot due to lossing teeth. keep us posted. :)

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Originally Posted by cinderbird

the thermometer probe really should be on the uth itself, or directly on the glass above it. The substrate may really be hotter than you currently think it is, the snake can also move it or pee on it which will cause a lot of flucuations that may cause stress and could certinly cause burns.

I'd try fixing those things, give him a week with no handling and then start handling in slow positive sessions. a bite from a baby bp won't cause you any harm. If its really a problem use some gloves to pick him up. I wouldn't use a towel or anything because their teeth may get caught in the loops and they are very fragile.

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you are right about the towel. sorry i gave info about placing towel over snake. i forgot a longgggggg time ago i did this and snake teeth was stuck to string of old but clean towel. how could i forget that? :O

People here have you on the right path. I simply wanted to comment on one item.

Focusing just on being intimidated (understandably) by an upset snake, I had to go through that with my boa constrictor (I do have a BP too). He wasn't expressly mean but as a baby holy COW, he had the being intimidating thing down.

It took me a really long time to commit, just reach in reasonably quickly, and grab his tail with confidence. Here's the thing: With any snake, you must reach in with confidence. If you go too slow, they'll get nervous. If you move too fast, they'll get upset. If you go at a good speed, stop, return to good speed, but otherwise falter, that's when it will get REALLY upset.

Also, it's not just physical actions. If you are nervous, if you are a bit afraid, that snake will detect that. This in turn will cause them to feel the same way. It is a nasty loop sort of thing.

So you have to get into the right mentality: That of: I'm going to confidently yet calmly reach in there, grab its tail, and pick it up. I may get bit, but here's how I'll react: Act like it doesn't bother me. Don't let it scare you away.

This isn't as easy as I make it sound. But you'll get there. My BP used to strike at me every single chance she could get. And I always let it scare me away. Thus, she got the idea that she could make me go away. I had to break that. Same thing with the Boa.

So: Reach in there, be ready to NOT react to a bite, and pick it up anyway. Get it in both your hands so that it can get as stable of a stance as possible. Let it wrap its tail around your fingers. Keep your hands very low and above whatever surface, if that means you have to sit on the floor, so be it. So if it does panic and get out, it won't get hurt.

You may only be able to pull this off for 30 seconds at a time. But eventually that will become 60 seconds. And then 5 minutes, and so on. With persistence, it will calm down, realize you are not a threat, and stay out as long as you'll keep it out: for hours.

This is actually a kind of special time: Both of you have to build trust for the other, so each of you has to get into an uncomfortable / low confidence zone for short periods to build that up. It's really quite amazing to be a part of this. For example with my boa, he initiates this by coming right up to my face and just staring at me from inches away. I don't like it, but it's obvious that he is both nervous and curious, too. After about 30 seconds of that he calmly pulls away as if he's had enough.

These things in addition to confirming your husbandry is right, and with persistence, should result in an incredibly docile snake! Keep at it.


Added note: A small snake simply doesn't have much weight, and when it is on a surface, it does not have a firm connection or grip, and feels insecure. This can cause them to panic. As they get older they get bigger, and put on more weight. As this happens, they have a better connection, and gain confidence. This is true while they are in your hands, as well.

oh, is he on f/t or live mice right now? I'd try feeding him two hoppers, one after the other--one hopper a week probably isn't enough for a hungry baby. And if he goes for two hoppers, you can try substituting the second hopper for f/t the next time, and switch him over to f/t that way.

If he's already on f/t, I'd see if he goes for two hoppers, and then start moving him to small mice and on up.

My "hatchlings" (150-250 g) are on large and jumbo mice right now.