Lesser x Butter ?

If i did a Lesser x Butter would i still get a BEL? I read that butters also produce BEL's when bred together so i wanted to know if it would be like a mojave x lesser.... i mean i know its like a 25% chance or something small like that but i wanted to know if it could happen with butters x lessers.... i have a lesser on hold and dont know if i should start saving to get another lesser, mojave or butter... thanks

Lesser X Butter produces BEL's

I believe any combo of mojave, lesser or butter will prouce BELs.

From what I've read, yes you can cross mojave x butter, mojave x lesser, lesser x butter and get BELs. Some have theorized that they are all based off of the same genetic locus, however, no proof other than they can be crossed to form a super has been offered to my knowledge. (I don't claim to be any kind of expert or any thing close to it either.)
My avatar is my mojave.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DLoc

From what I've read, yes you can cross mojave x butter, mojave x lesser, lesser x butter and get BELs. Some have theorized that they are all based off of the same genetic locus, however, no proof other than they can be crossed to form a super has been offered to my knowledge. (I don't claim to be any kind of expert or any thing close to it either.)
My avatar is my mojave.

---

All those combinations will give you a chance to produce a BEL, but that BEL wont be a super for any of those morphs, since it will be 50% something and 50% something else.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Danounet

All those combinations will give you a chance to produce a BEL, but that BEL wont be a super for any of those morphs, since it will be 50% something and 50% something else.

---

Thanks Danounet, I'm sorry I didn't see how that read. (What mean by my statement is that they have the same general appearance as a super if you crossed any one of those to itself.) Unless true evidence beyond simple appearance based traits is offered to suggest that combining any of them would form a super in theory. (as in IF all of those morphs are ever proven to be variations of the same locus mutation, then they would be supers however until then they are different morphs. And like you said they are not supers unless they are bread to the same morph.)

Yeah I wouldnt cross butter and lesser to make a bel..... It would be damn hard to identify the offspring of the bel that was produced in that breeding... there is already so much debate on those two any way....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DLoc

Some have theorized that they are all based off of the same genetic locus, however, no proof other than they can be crossed to form a super has been offered to my knowledge.

---

I believe that it isn't so much that as the fact that a BEL from a mojave x lesser that is crossed with a wild-type produces all lessers and mojaves, and never another BEL. So, that suggests that the BEL is behaving as though it is homozygous* at the "BEL locus" (and thus capable of only producing "het BELs" -- ie, butters/lessers/mojaves -- and no BELs or normals) as opposed to heterozygous at two different loci like a bumblebee (which can produce spiders, pastels, AND normals and bumblebees, since it is heterozygous at both loci).

Hope that made sense ... :)

*(Though of course, if we assume that the lesser and mojave are two different alleles on that locus -- which they do appear to be given how different they look and behave within combos -- then it's actually still heterozygous at that locus; it just isn't heterozygous with the wild-type allele. Did I confuse you yet? :rolleye2: )

wow thanks guys.... yeah i think im going to go for another lesser.... although i really love the butters too... i might just get a pair of those too.... but your right i had not even thought of not being able to tell the snakes apart if i bred a butter and lesser

The russo het white diamond will also produce bels when crossed with any of those three. May be another but I cant remember.

Hi,

What was Amir's BEL maker called?

Could it be the Mocha? :confused:


dr del

I've keep looking for actual evidence that they are the same (none I've found yet) and basically it says that butter/lesser/mojave all have the same allele however while the locus or address is the same for all of these it may or not be a different gene. Further more if you found a wild type het for any of these (as wild type means Normal Ball according to N.E.R.D. in genetics 101 and other sources) so breading a wild type to a codominant would still produce the morph. Only recessive traits produce a normal appearing ball that is het for the cross. Double het means just that, two seperate loci with het for one morph gene and one normal allele. So for example you can have a mojave spider as the both are codominant traits (het with a visual difference than a normal) that are both at different loci. The way you know they are at different loci is because if they were at the same loci it should look like a Super. (for the purpose of my post Super meaning two morph genes at a given loci. That while perhaps not the same gene for a trait still may be homozygous alleles.)
So mojave/lesser/butter it would look like mojave/lesser/butter as all you need is het for any one of those to see the trait, as it's a codominant mutation.
I found this at http://www.vmsherp.com/ViewBalls.htm
"Heterozygous for Mojave, a codominant trait. Yet another incomplete dominant mutation, with the homozygous form being a unique ghostly patterned variant of Blue-Eyed Leucistic known simply as the Super Mojave Ball. It should be noted that a large number of morphs have proven to be allelic to Mojave, including Russo, Lesser Platinum, and Butter, among others. Breeding any two of these types together will produce a 'Super' form, all of which are loosely termed 'Blue-Eyed Leucistics'."

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by se7en2003

wow thanks guys.... yeah i think im going to go for another lesser.... although i really love the butters too... i might just get a pair of those too.... but your right i had not even thought of not being able to tell the snakes apart if i bred a butter and lesser

---

Just my opinion, but I would avoid Lesser x Lesser, Lesser x Butter, or Butter x Butter pairings due to the Bug eye issue. Lesser x Mojave is a better way to go IMO.

whats the bug eyed issue?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by dshem

whats the bug eyed issue?

---

Never heard of it either...

Now I am worried cause I had planned on getting a pair of lessers .