Euthanization Methods - Which do YOU think is right?

After hearing many opinions and several pros and cons regarding each method of euthanasia, which method do you believe is BEST to euthanize any snake? Whether you believe the "best" to be the most humane, quick, or the easiest, let's hear why.

I decided to open this thread after reading about the poor BP that had been so severely injured by a live feeder left alone with the snake within the enclosure, it had virtually no chance for survival.

Please do not make this a bash or flame-fest for the user who had to euthanize the snake (remember, it couldn't have been easy for him), but his method was to make one swift, hard hit on the snake's head with a heavy object, thereby causing immediate fatal damage to the brain. I, personally, believe this to be one of the best methods. It ensures immediate death and ends the pain the quickest.

Let's hear it, folks!

I DO NOT MEAN TO OFFEND ANYONE!

I think cutting off the head is the fastest and least painful way. Once you cut off the brain, you basically feel nothing, it is only nerves still twitching.

But if the head is still living, then it's feeling pain, the body wouldn't, it's just meat(no offense) but the head would be the part feeling the pain. Not saying it IS still alive for an hour or not, but if it is possible, then the brain is still intact.

I chose pithing, because if it's done correctly, it destroys the brain. However, if you aren't sure you can hit the brain itself(unfamiliar with the exact location in the skull) then bludgeoning with blunt force to destroy the brain would be the second choice.

It's not something I ever want to do, but you never know.

I'm not sure how well typical euthanasia injections work on snakes. Maybe someone can shed some light on that? If it is one of the painless and less messy ways, that would most likely be my first choice.

I'm uncertain of the other methods though, and would rather get it over with quickly, with a method I know will kill them instantly. In this case, blunt force or pithing. As long as the brain is destroyed, they no longer feel anything. With everything I've heard about chopping the head off, I wouldn't, couldn't ever risk it. The very thought of the snake possibly still feeling everything is just...

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

But if the head is still living, then it's feeling pain, the body wouldn't, it's just meat(no offense) but the head would be the part feeling the pain. Not saying it IS still alive for an hour or not, but if it is possible, then the brain is still intact.

I chose pithing, because if it's done correctly, it destroys the brain. However, if you aren't sure you can hit the brain itself(unfamiliar with the exact location in the skull) then bludgeoning with blunt force to destroy the brain would be the second choice.

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How can the snake still feel it if the head is completely shut off? :confuse:

I choose euthanasia. For those who do not know how it works, it is the same for any other animal. It is injected into the animal's blood stream, and basically shuts down the animal's body, painlessly. The animals are asleep/ unconscious way before all of the organs begin to fail.

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Originally Posted by Sadistic Serpent

How can the snake still feel it if the head is completely shut off? :confuse:

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The theory is that the head is still alive because reptiles aren't as susceptable to the blood pressure loss as mammals are. Therefor when you chop off the head, the brain is still functioning and therefor could possibly experiance pain. Similiar to if your hand was cut off, you feel pain from the severed nerves on the stump? The head/brain would feel pain from the severed nerves of the "stump" of it's neck.

The BODY doesn't feel anything at any time. The BRAIN feels things. Therefor, if the brain is intact and functioning for any length of time, the brain could still be feeling pain. I'm not certain I buy the "one hour" length of time, but I wouldn't want my pet to feel pain for any amount of time if I could help it. I have seen snakes beheaded before, and the heads did still move around. Not for an hour.. but for some time. Was it just spasms? Or was it conscious movements? I don't know, I wasn't checking that sort of detail. (I wasn't the one beheading snakes either, it was the 'kill the snake' mentality of my area)

I hope that explained it a little better.

Euthanasia drugs can take a long time to work on reptiles. The vet techs next to where I work have told me about numerous times they were supposed to euthanize a tortoise, turtle or snake and having it still breathing an hour later. One even said they eventually just put them into the freezer. Plus, you'd be taking the chance that the vet in question knows both what drugs to use, what amount for that reptile and how to administer it correctly. Assuming you can take it TO a vet, or have a vet willing to see the reptile in your area.

I picked "other"... gunshot to the head...

Bludgening.

If the head is removed, the brain dies from lack of oxygen/bloodflow. Even a human is still conscious for several seconds. I've read a report by a scientist who closely watched the head of a man on the guillotine. He called the man's name and the man looked towards him, then his face grew lifeless. You have nerves that branch from the spinal cord above the neck and which go directly from the brain to the face. This does not rely on the anecdotal evidence, it is merely a fact that it will take the (human) brain/head several seconds to bleed out and lose consciousness. As snakes do everything slower, it may be longer.

I mean, look at this thing! YouTube - Rattlesnake Head Attacks THIS IS FAMOUS! Doesn't look like random twitching to me.

Just imagine going through these things yourself. Imagine freezing to death. Slowly OR quickly. Imagine having something shoved into your skull before it stirs your brain into oblivion. Imagine being placed into a room with no oxygen. Drugs that put you to sleep before you die don't sound so bad, if they do indeed work that way. Who can tell if a snake is sleeping or just lost the ability to move or breathe?

A good way has to be quick, just to be sure. Smashing the head with a rock or shooting it, may not always be the quickest, though. What if you miss? What if you don't hit hard enough? If the head could be secured and a machine crush it hydraulically or something, I'd say that would be the absolute best of the dismal options for the poor snake.

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

I picked "other"... gunshot to the head...

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Agreed

Technically, gunshot to the head could miss the very small brain, and if it does hit the brain, it's the same as blunt trauma or pithing the brain. It's just less hands on, which many people find preferable.

Of course, it would be preferable that you're not put into jail for firing the weapon too, although 90% of cops showing up for a discharged weapon call would probably applaud you if you explained you were killing a snake. Crazy isn't it?

The best way is to take your snake to the vet and let them do it. The most common way to euthanise a snake at a veterinary hospital is to sedate them with gas first, then either inject the heart or brain with euthanasia solution. This is the most painless way and the only way I would do it.

In response to an earlier post on this thread stating that a vet tech said they are sometimes still breathing an hour later, they arent doing it right and any veterinarian who knows any thing about reptiles will sedate them first and then euthanise.

Id like to add one more thing about death by chopping off the head.. A potential problem Ive seen with this is how far down from the head people choose to sever <I dont know why, but in the south people like to take pictures if the wild snakes the behead>, and the method used. WHile I know none of us would agree that using a shovel is the best way of doing it, Even the standard kitchen knife is probably going to have a hard time getting through a snakes body in one swift motion. Personally I dont have access to a hatchet or axe because I just don't live in an environment where I need to buy one. So for the average homeowner/renter I dont think that method is even feesable.

That said I prefer pithing or a quick smash to the head. Mostly since I simply cant find any source that can tell me with 100% surety that any other method is without even the smallest time spent suffering.

I'll suck up alittle mess in favor of an animal going out as quickly and painlessly as possible.

I really don't ever want to need to do this and the topic is quite upsetting to think about. I agree that decapitation is not a really great option. ever read about Mike the headless chicken? I understand a snakes nervous system is very simple by human standards and slow to act, I would think Pithing would be a good option but I don't think I could personally do that to my snake. I wonder if CO2 would work? It is the recommended by American Veterinary Medical Association for small mammals why not snakes I don't know it is just a thought. I hope that I never am forced to do any method for real!!! I am very sorry for the person whom actually needed to euthanize a snake.

What ever method is painless for the snake. Whether or not its wrong or right. Chop it shoot it freeze it something, just end the suffering.

Interesting poll.

Just for the record, I voted injection. I just could not bring myself to bludgeon any of our boys - mercy killing or not.

I'm NOT bashing any of the others here that picked a method other than injection. I'm just saying for me personally the other methods are just to "hands-on".

I just don't handle the whole "death thing" very well - particularly when it comes to pets. It just really sucks having to let one go, even if it is for their own good...

I chose other, cause I keep not realizing some of these polls are multiple choice.

The right way is a quick way. End the suffering. Funny thing, that nature doesn't usually do it this way. Like when a wolf takes down a pregnant elk, eats the fetus, and leaves the mother to lay there, bleeding out, waiting to die.

Anyway, shoot it, chop the head, smash it, pithing, or injections are ok with me.

Not too sure if the freezing seems that smart... I almost died from hypothermia once. It's a weird feeling. You really go numb to any pain, because of how tired it makes you. However, a reptile may experience it differently.

Bottom line, though, is to make it quick. When that point comes for me, I'll likely smash the head. They won't feel a thing.

i personally would go to the vet and let them take care of it.

but i also am kinda leaning toward co2. im just curious cause this is what i do to euthanize my rats before i put them in the freezer. would it have the same effect on ball pythons. i know they breath at a slower rate then mammals, so would it put them to sleep before actually killing them like it does to the rats?

If I were to go, I'd choose high-powered firearm.

I chose Other as well.

The A.V.A. states many methods are inhumane.

For instance freezing reptiles does not kill them quickly nor in a painless way. It mostly causes painfull exploding of the cells as the animal recieves frostbite before death occures.

Severing the head is considered inhumane but I would second this method over others as yes the brain is still intact but there is no connection to the nerves. Does the brain still feel pain? Who really knows.

Smashing seems evil to me for some reason, like a upset child stomping on something is what I picture.

Euthanasea is optional and still cost money but for the average person this is probably best.

As for myself I have practiced the method of Co2 for a few years and it works great when needed. I have used this method with many bearded dragons as well as other reptiles.

I simply constructed a 5 gallon bucket with clamps to hold lid on while pressure leaks out the sides. Cut a circle out of the lid using a hole saw and then caulked a Co2 line to the lid. I then hook the line to my tank and regulator and release the gas slowly. Just like many have done for there Feeders...Co2 works mostly by displacing oxygen meaning it will even remove all oxygen even from the lungs, brain and blood stream and results in a painless state of eternal sleep.

Many cases have been reported of humans becoming unconsious from Co2 exposure at higher PPM levels never knowing they had inhaled the substance.

I have to say that I would probably take it to the vet. I simply don't do well with death and I could never see myself having a hand in the death, even if it was to end it's suffering. Maybe that makes me a weak person - I don't know. But I would take it to the vet and have them euthanize it.

The most common method of euthanasia I have found is to sell my snake to somebody at a snake show.

I dont think its ever right to kill your own snake I would take it to the vet for proper and painless death.

-Payson!

Snakes, reptiles in general are similar to fish - at least in my mind. Fish and reptiles are ectotherms. The video of the detached rattlesnake head on page one demonstrates what I have seen with sharks that have had their head removed. They still continue to "live" / move for several minutes. I wouldn't want to see that as I believe the animal suffers.

I would talk to my vet and ask for an injectable prescription to euthanize it at home. If he would have seen the animal previously/recently to treat it for what was ailing it, I might have a chance at getting the prescription without a vet visit, and just pay the cost of meds.

Any vet that sent home euthanasia drugs for home use by an owner would have his license pulled. That stuff isn't asprin.

Bludgeoning. Most methods simply aren't humane. Instantly destroying the brain is completely humane.
I don't trust chemical euthanasia, because I honestly don't believe that it has been well-researched in reptiles.
Pithing involves pain up until it's completed, not to mention the fact that a snake's brain is extremely tiny, and it would take a lot of experience to hit it on the first try.

Done properly, bludgeoning is completely painless, and the animal doesn't even have time to experience anxiety. It's hard on the human, but that really isn't the point, is it?

A snake's head is a pretty small target--if you miss, you generally miss entirely. It's hard to hit a snake in the head very hard, and miss its brain.

I believe 100% that this is the most humane method to use on reptiles. Vets don't use it because they aren't allowed to euthanize someone's pet by smashing it over the head. What vets use isn't always about what's best for the animal.

People need to realize that injections for reptiles are completely separate from injections for mammals. They have a much slower metabolism, so injected euthanasia will often cause severe pain.

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Originally Posted by jallenfl

I chose Other as well.

The A.V.A. states many methods are inhumane.

For instance freezing reptiles does not kill them quickly nor in a painless way. It mostly causes painfull exploding of the cells as the animal recieves frostbite before death occures.

Severing the head is considered inhumane but I would second this method over others as yes the brain is still intact but there is no connection to the nerves. Does the brain still feel pain? Who really knows.

Smashing seems evil to me for some reason, like a upset child stomping on something is what I picture.

Euthanasea is optional and still cost money but for the average person this is probably best.

As for myself I have practiced the method of Co2 for a few years and it works great when needed. I have used this method with many bearded dragons as well as other reptiles.

I simply constructed a 5 gallon bucket with clamps to hold lid on while pressure leaks out the sides. Cut a circle out of the lid using a hole saw and then caulked a Co2 line to the lid. I then hook the line to my tank and regulator and release the gas slowly. Just like many have done for there Feeders...Co2 works mostly by displacing oxygen meaning it will even remove all oxygen even from the lungs, brain and blood stream and results in a painless state of eternal sleep.

Many cases have been reported of humans becoming unconsious from Co2 exposure at higher PPM levels never knowing they had inhaled the substance.

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No offense, but that is terrible.
CO2 is NOT an option for reptiles. Similar to the injection, the slow metabolism prevents them from dying at the same rate as mammals. You cannot compare mammals and people to reptiles. Reptiles do not need nearly as much oxygen, and therefore would feel the suffocation very slowly and painfully.

If anything is inhumane, that is it.

I like to attack them with a knife while screaming 'You never loved me anyway, I hate you I hate you I hate you'.... It's very cathartic.

Wow, this is really hard for me to read. :O

I hardly ever think twice about killing a rat or a mouse to feed my animals, but if it ever came down to killing one of my snakes I don't think I would be able to do it. That being said, I think (as hard as it is to even imagine doing something like this.. it makes my toes curl just thinking about it) crushing the head would probably be the fastest. As long as there's someone else to do it. I'd probably miss and make things worse anyways, my eyes would be too teary.

All this is fine and dandy for the people who have a few snakes but what about the big guys??

I know for a fact that many breeders who produce hundreds if not thousands of reptiles a year do not inject or gas. This is much too costly and not proven to end the animals life quickly. You need to think about it on a larger scale. I doubt you will see any large scale breeders replying to this post in a serious manner if at all. When you have to cull multiple animals per year due to birth defects or injury everything changes. Bigger breeders stay away from questions like this due to the backlash. This is true for many topics in fact..

My choice is not listed. I would first put the animal in the refridgerator for awhile. Then the freezer. This would cause a type of forced hybernation. No these snakes do not hybernate but cold does shut them down. The body would be completely unresponsive and freezing would then have no ill effects.

I actually did a bit of reading and asked a question or two of a colleague and found a very complex issue. It seems there is problems with most ways. Decapitation isn't great as the brain can live for as long as an hour! Decapitation followed by pithing that seems far too blood thirsty I can ever imagine that.

"Euthanasia can be done by destroying the brain with a sharp blow to the head, on the middle and just posterior to the eyes" Steve Barton DVM. He goes on to state that a weak or mis directed blow may no be lethal.

Gas as well but not co2 (I stand corrected from my previous post) chloroform, methoxyflurane and carbon monoxide. I don't think that would be readily available.

"Freezing has been used as a humane method to kill small reptiles under one pound in weight. Although low temperatures do result in a state of torpor, the formation of ice crystals in the tissue is quite painful. Freezing should only be done to anesthetized animals"

Injection seems ok but a vet must perform the task. In my case that means waiting for a vet.

"In a perfect world euthanasia would never be necessary. Since it sometimes is, the goal of this column is to promote the use of humane methods and to educate readers that some commonly used methods, such as freezing and decapitation, are inappropriate."

Steve Barten, DVM

Again I hope that this never becomes necessary!

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

No offense, but that is terrible.
CO2 is NOT an option for reptiles. Similar to the injection, the slow metabolism prevents them from dying at the same rate as mammals. You cannot compare mammals and people to reptiles. Reptiles do not need nearly as much oxygen, and therefore would feel the suffocation very slowly and painfully.

If anything is inhumane, that is it.

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Funny how if anything is inhumane that is it huh???

Well unfourtunately for you this method takes a matter of seconds and they are rendered lifeless. So as for your respiration rate of a reptile I guess it will have many factors to way on other than your voiceless opinion on the most inhumane way............ Which I feer not to say has never used this method nor seen it used and therefore have no clue...it will depend on a few factors.

1.)As to the amount of saturation the gas has on the containment system used. I USE 5000PPM INSTANTANEOUS.

2.)Stress level of the animal changing its respiratory rate. Heavy breathing from stress. HEAVY BREATHING

3.)Also considered as many have done in there post is the method of ending pain ever going to be as bad as suffering??? NO

Would you choose being locked in an airless room over your head crushed before you even know it?

It happens within seconds and there is air in the container, however moments later it is all removed by displacement so yes you are correct airless but not when I place the reptile in the container. I like to think of it as a final hiding place. Nice, Dark, Bedding and then sleep.

On the other hand I think I would feel quite evil after smashing the head.

To each there own, as like I said before any of these methods are better than the continued suffering.

I prefer this method it is clean and works with no clever or mallet involved. I feel that if I breed them and raise them it is also my duty to dispatch them when the time comes if needed.

J

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Originally Posted by jallenfl

It happens within seconds and there is air in the container, however moments later it is all removed by displacement so yes you are correct airless but not when I place the reptile in the container. I like to think of it as a final hiding place. Nice, Dark, Bedding and then sleep.

On the other hand I think I would feel quite evil after smashing the head.

To each there own, as like I said before any of these methods are better than the continued suffering.

I prefer this method it is clean and works with no clever or mallet involved. I feel that if I breed them and raise them it is also my duty to dispatch them when the time comes if needed.

J

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Well, this isnt about how YOU feel after wards. Its about what causes the least amount of tension/stress/pain to the animal.

"however moments later it is all removed by displacement.."

Moments later. Speak to anyone that was in a near fatal accident of any kind and they will tell you that seconds feel like hours. Moments later can be an eternity knowing that your suffocating. Make no mistake, they know when they cant breathe. Not to mention you STILL have oxygen in your body that keeps you alive for a few more seconds/minutes.

I understand for YOU its easy to turn on a valve and 30 seconds later see a dead snake and think "well that was quick and painless". But your not the one suffering.

Have you ever been under water to the point you were panicking for air? Well, snakes also use a much smaller oxygen percentage then we do and takes longer for the oxygen to fully dissipate in the body. Just because its not messy, doesnt mean its not stressful or painful.

Its not pretty, but smashing a skull and the brain cavity just might be the best FOR THE ANIMAL... Co2 simply doesnt make much sense to me given the nature of how reptiles utilize oxygen in the first place.

Foschi, I'm sorry, but all indicators are that the last thing to shut down due to cold in a reptile is the brain. There is no evidence that they're insensate or incapable of feeling pain simply because they were refrigerated first. Cold reptiles actually show the ability to respond, albeit slowly. Test this next time--take the refrigerated animal, and pinch its tail--I bet you will see it flinch in response, even if it's greatly delayed.

There is no way to make freezing humane for reptiles.

Remember, reptiles do NOT hibernate. They brumate. Brumation is a slowing of the metabolism while the animals is CONSCIOUS. They do not go to sleep and stay asleep.

I can hold my breath for a minute and a half and remain conscious. I can't imagine going any longer or actually trying to breath and getting no oxygen. I can't imagine how long a reptile can actually go like that.

Suffocation and freezing have got to be some of the worst ways to die, for any creature. Just smash it's head and end it's suffering in less than an instant.

I'm stepping out now.

Wow! Thanks for all the input, everyone! :gj:

Personally, this is a hard subject to talk about for myself, despite being the one who created such a thread. I love all my animals, and I wouldn't be very loyal if I couldn't bring myself to end their suffering. I'm a very emotional person; having watched my own dog die with his head in my lap, I have experienced death.

I would much rather be with my pet during their last moments should euthanasia be the only option, rather than just handing it off to a vet and feel the guilt. With dogs or cats, you have that option. But injection is not the best method for any reptile, in my opinion. Albeit a bit disturbing and heart-wrenching, I would euthanize my own snake with the quickest possible method, should the time ever come.

It's probably the best time and place to use that unusual age-old phrase: "I love you to death."

Yeah and sometime you may have a situation where waiting for a vet might not be humane for the snake. Some vets won't take reptiles, or it might be after-hours or the weekend when you can't find an open vet, or an emergency vet that will take in reptiles.

In those cases, having something predetermined can really help both you and the snake, you for not making it quite as traumatic because you've considered it, and the snake for not having as much time to suffer until you decide.

That's an excellent point, wolfy-hound. It's always a great idea to have a plan set aside for when that time comes. You can mentally prepare yourself also, knowing you won't have to think so much about what you're going to do. End the animal's suffering, allow yourself time to grieve, and then appreciate the fact that you did the right thing by planning ahead.

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Originally Posted by BigBlue56

Well, this isnt about how YOU feel after wards. Its about what causes the least amount of tension/stress/pain to the animal.

"however moments later it is all removed by displacement.."

Moments later. Speak to anyone that was in a near fatal accident of any kind and they will tell you that seconds feel like hours. Moments later can be an eternity knowing that your suffocating. Make no mistake, they know when they cant breathe. Not to mention you STILL have oxygen in your body that keeps you alive for a few more seconds/minutes.

I understand for YOU its easy to turn on a valve and 30 seconds later see a dead snake and think "well that was quick and painless". But your not the one suffering.

Have you ever been under water to the point you were panicking for air? Well, snakes also use a much smaller oxygen percentage then we do and takes longer for the oxygen to fully dissipate in the body. Just because its not messy, doesnt mean its not stressful or painful.

Its not pretty, but smashing a skull and the brain cavity just might be the best FOR THE ANIMAL... Co2 simply doesnt make much sense to me given the nature of how reptiles utilize oxygen in the first place.

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I believe you missed my point....

The point I was making was not towards how I feel after the creature has passed. It is about how I feel being the one to raise and then have to dispatch, it seems it is my responsibility. After all the care you put into raising your pet, caring for its little needs this seems a bit trivial when the time comes to end its suffering.

I would just as soon shoot my own dogs and end there missery than take it to a vet when the time comes, who pays no respect and it is just another animal to put down to them. Granted shooting may not seem respectful but watching something suffer is deff. not. I chose the word "shoot" in context to the fact that it seems decapitating or smashing doesnt seem right in this case do to the size of the animal.

I am sure there are some vets that feel bad but after they have done it so many times there has to be a lack of emotion it is only human.

Yes I have been to a point where I panicked for air. Diving and had a regulator malfunctioned. So yes I understand.

Yes it is a method of suffocation but with a little research you will find that it causes suffocation long after the subject has passed out do to the level of intoxication. Resulting in a humane death with no association of pain.

At the level of 5000ppm for euthanasia Co2 has only taken a maximum of 10 seconds with rats and when I did have to use on a bearded dragon and also on one snake it took a matter of 7 seconds, and yes that is timed by me. So where 30 seconds may seem like eternity you will see that it has never taken that long.

Also like I said before, I support any of these methods for no matter how long the animal suffers so be it "30 seconds" or longer you are still doing a great service by removing your own emotion and ending the animals prolonged suffering.

I am not one to judge, if I had to crush a skull or decapitate and it was the only way then so be it I will do what it takes. You seem to have been led to believe this is about me and in no way will it ever be.

Im the guy who stops to put a deer on the side of the road down after a car clips it. Only happened once and a firearm was the best option. State Trooper wrote me a ticket for discharging a firearm on the side of the road to top it all of.
Later judge let me off seeing that I had the best intentions.

Sorry to mislead you but it isnt about me...

J

I picked other because taking the animal to a vet for euthanization was not an option. But I guess it could fall under "injection".

If that option was not available (which I really can't see why it wouldn't be. Most vets will work with you in this area.), I guess blunt force or gun shot to the head destroying the brain immediately would be a second runner up.

jallenfl has truly hit the nail on the head. Responsibility. We as keepers are responsible for all aspects of our pets lives and likely the greatest one is how a pet passes. That is why this is such a hot topic as, if I may speak for most here, feel that responsibility weighing on us. I know I do. I wish that I am never tasked with a mercy killing but if it does occur having had this discussion will add to it. In the end it seems to me that each of us are capable of differing things I don't have a Co2 chamber around so personally that is out, the vet is 1 hour away that is out, for me I guess that leaves crushing the skull, am I able to do so with out flinching and going off target? I think so.

The best method is the one that can be administered quickly and is the fastest available. My girlfriend would be unable to bash our guys heads in period, does that mean she should wait (hours) for me to drive home? NO WAY. Refrigerator and freezing seems more humane that hanging around for hours with a painful injury. It isn't ideal but is better than the alternative. A few moments more suffering is better than hours of it. The idea is to bring an end to prolonged suffering the thing I was guilty of was forgetting that the snake in question is currently suffering and that bringing death faster will end that.

Is taking 8 (or whatever) minuets to suffocate worse than days with your spine exposed and dying from infection and shock? Pick a way that YOU are able to do and do it. All of the listed ways are better than doing nothing.

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Originally Posted by jallenfl

I believe you missed my point....

The point I was making was not towards how I feel after the creature has passed. It is about how I feel being the one to raise and then have to dispatch, it seems it is my responsibility. After all the care you put into raising your pet, caring for its little needs this seems a bit trivial when the time comes to end its suffering.

I would just as soon shoot my own dogs and end there missery than take it to a vet when the time comes, who pays no respect and it is just another animal to put down to them. Granted shooting may not seem respectful but watching something suffer is deff. not. I chose the word "shoot" in context to the fact that it seems decapitating or smashing doesnt seem right in this case do to the size of the animal.

I am sure there are some vets that feel bad but after they have done it so many times there has to be a lack of emotion it is only human.

Yes I have been to a point where I panicked for air. Diving and had a regulator malfunctioned. So yes I understand.

Yes it is a method of suffocation but with a little research you will find that it causes suffocation long after the subject has passed out do to the level of intoxication. Resulting in a humane death with no association of pain.

At the level of 5000ppm for euthanasia Co2 has only taken a maximum of 10 seconds with rats and when I did have to use on a bearded dragon and also on one snake it took a matter of 7 seconds, and yes that is timed by me. So where 30 seconds may seem like eternity you will see that it has never taken that long.

Also like I said before, I support any of these methods for no matter how long the animal suffers so be it "30 seconds" or longer you are still doing a great service by removing your own emotion and ending the animals prolonged suffering.

I am not one to judge, if I had to crush a skull or decapitate and it was the only way then so be it I will do what it takes. You seem to have been led to believe this is about me and in no way will it ever be.

Im the guy who stops to put a deer on the side of the road down after a car clips it. Only happened once and a firearm was the best option. State Trooper wrote me a ticket for discharging a firearm on the side of the road to top it all of.
Later judge let me off seeing that I had the best intentions.

Sorry to mislead you but it isnt about me...

J

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Forgive my post if it came off aggressive as that wasnt my intention. When I said 30 seconds, it was a small exaggeration. Even 7 seconds when your gasping for air feels like an eternity.. You yourself should know this given that you have been in a position where you needed oxygen desperately.

"Little research". I would love to see any links tor documents that back up your claim that Co2 is good way to go for reptiles, because every single professional herp I have ever spoken to says thats not as quick and painless as you think.

Not to mention, I simply do not buy the 7 second thing. The remaining oxygen in the snakes body would keep it alive for longer then 7 seconds period. Unless you created a vacuum which was possible of sucking the oxygen out of the snake on a cellular level, 7 seconds simple wont happen.

Suffocating isnt this easy thing where its a set time for the animal to pass. I just personally feel that Co2 is DEFINITELY not the best way to go about this. And I really dont think your fully aware of what is going on in the reptiles body during these "7 seconds".

I feel like you may be playing with a chemical balance in the reptiles body that you fully dont understand. All I know is if I had to choose a split second death of having my brain cavity destroyed or "7 seconds" of gasping for air and feeling the stress on my body as my lungs struggle to compress one last time before I go to sleep.. Its really not even a question.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigBlue56

Forgive my post if it came off aggressive as that wasnt my intention. When I said 30 seconds, it was a small exaggeration. Even 7 seconds when your gasping for air feels like an eternity.. You yourself should know this given that you have been in a position where you needed oxygen desperately.

"Little research". I would love to see any links tor documents that back up your claim that Co2 is good way to go for reptiles, because every single professional herp I have ever spoken to says thats not as quick and painless as you think.

Not to mention, I simply do not buy the 7 second thing. The remaining oxygen in the snakes body would keep it alive for longer then 7 seconds period. Unless you created a vacuum which was possible of sucking the oxygen out of the snake on a cellular level, 7 seconds simple wont happen.

Suffocating isnt this easy thing where its a set time for the animal to pass. I just personally feel that Co2 is DEFINITELY not the best way to go about this. And I really dont think your fully aware of what is going on in the reptiles body during these "7 seconds".

I feel like you may be playing with a chemical balance in the reptiles body that you fully dont understand. All I know is if I had to choose a split second death of having my brain cavity destroyed or "7 seconds" of gasping for air and feeling the stress on my body as my lungs struggle to compress one last time before I go to sleep.. Its really not even a question.

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I respect your opinion and each person will have there own methods for doing what is right in that moment. After-all I cant judge anyone for the method they choose. I think any method will be better than suffering even if it hurts for a few more seconds and resluts in a painfree state afterwards where the creature no longer suffers from its ailments...

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Originally Posted by jallenfl

I respect your opinion and each person will have there own methods for doing what is right in that moment. After-all I cant judge anyone for the method they choose. I think any method will be better than suffering even if it hurts for a few more seconds and resluts in a painfree state afterwards where the creature no longer suffers from its ailments...

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So burning an animal to death would be acceptable since it results in a pain free state afterward?

:colbert:

"Euthanasia guidelines from the American Veterinary Medical Association say decapitation is not adequate for snakes and other reptiles because death may not be immediate," The recommended method was to pithe."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BigBlue56

So burning an animal to death would be acceptable since it results in a pain free state afterward?

:colbert:

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I believe you are posting in ignorance and not reading what I have typed. My conversation with you is over since I do not believe you will be able to grasp what I am saying.

I do not believe burning anything was ever mentioned and I do not think you are really here to have a intelligent conversation. Sorry if I am wrong but you seem to be missing the point...

J

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jallenfl

I believe you are posting in ignorance and not reading what I have typed. My conversation with you is over since I do not believe you will be able to grasp what I am saying.

I do not believe burning anything was ever mentioned and I do not think you are really here to have a intelligent conversation. Sorry if I am wrong but you seem to be missing the point...

J

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And your absolutely right. I dont grasp how someone could possible continue to do something when professionals say its not a good way to go about it.

Keep defending Co2 making claims as if you know its painless when professionals specifically say to avoid C02 for reptiles.

"tongue in cheek" comments doesnt mean I am not trying to have an intelligent conversation.

When you say something like "I think any method will be better than suffering even if it hurts for a few more seconds and resluts in a painfree state afterwards where the creature no longer suffers from its ailments..."

Does my comment about burning animals not fit into what you said? You chose bad wording and I called you out on it. Simple as that.

That to me says all that needs to be said.. This discussion was about the best way to do it. Best referring to the most painless, stress less possible way to go about it... Not just "any method" that gets the job done.

Please dont insult me suggesting I didnt read your words as I have read every single one. Chose your words more carefully.