Custom Cage

I’ve decided to get a male and a female snake this summer and they will likely be Ball Pythons. I’ve read a bunch about housing and caring for them and plan to continue. While I very consistently read that a 20~30 gal aquarium is acceptable for adult BPs, it just sounds small to me…


What would you consider an “ideal” size cage for a BP (and why)?

2’ x 2’ @ 3’ tall is what I’d like to offer.


When given the opportunity, how much to BP’s climb?

I would like to offer a couple of ‘branches’ including a raised hiding area. How well would this be utilized?


Below is an illustration of the “water dish” I have designed for my Tegu (lizard) enclosure. Would this sort of water dish be advantageous for a BP?

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y74...withFilter.jpg

The pump/sponge area will be covered.


Any other thoughts, suggestions, links, etc for custom cage ideas will be greatly appreciated. I’m a DIY guy with a good bit of experience in working on such projects.

Hi,

I would recommend a good heavy ceramic dog waterbowl.

Easy to clean and very hard for the snake to tip. :)

I don't give mine bowls big enough that than can fit in them or anything like that. And I would worry about the vibrations form the pump disturbing the snake.

As to cage size smaller is often better from the animals point of view.

Have a read through our caresheet and see if it raises any questions.



dr del

Though it does seem cruel to some people, ball pythons prefer smaller housing. Keeping them in a large enclosure can stress them and actually shorten their life span from what I have heard. Can't verify the latter part, but it makes sense. I know when I tried a couple of mine in larger enclosures, they went off feeding. Back into smaller cages and they were fine again. Good Luck!

Heh,

They do tend to be secretive shy little beggars.

Apart from the ones who aren't of course. :rolleyes:



dr del

A 10 gallon tank would be more than enough for a yearling. The cage I'm building only has an interior enclosure space of 28"x14" and like 15" in height, and that should be more than adequate to last our BP for the next 2, 3 mayber even 4 years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

And I would worry about the vibrations form the pump disturbing the snake.

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I hadn't even thought about the vibration beign a problem... thanks for the point of concern...


As for enclosure size, while I see how a big ole wide open box with a single hide could be stressful, especially if bright lights are used for heat... but a 2' x 2' @ 3' tall with branches, a couple of hides, live or fake greenery, dimmed lighting, etc, etc would make the snake feel "right at home"...


I'm not saying I am right and others are wrong, just wanting to think the idea through and not unnecessarily limit myself or my snake...

Hi,

Yeah we all tend to start off thinking of wonderfully realistic enclosures. :(

Sadly they are a real trial to get the temps and humidity right and keep clean.

It's not impossible - but it's not that far off it either. :(

Ball pythons aren't really very good climbers either so you will need to make sure they can get the temp range across the floor that they need and that, when they fall ( and sadly they will ), that they don't land on any hard edges and hurt themselves.

And the kicker is if you get the environment right you will hardly ever see the snake during the day when the tank looks its best. :tears:

They spend most of their time in the wild inside rodent burrows and termite mounds only coming out to hunt or look for mates.

From the snakes point of view the perfect setup is small, dark, humid and warmer at one end than the other.

With hot and cold running mice and conjugal visits. :cool:

Come to think of it I wouldn't mind that overly much myself. :ninja:


dr del

If I could start again, I'd get a tub instead of a tank. $8 and supposed to be super easy to take care of. Dang buggers never leave their hides anyway.

Hey Dr del has some good points but for me personally I have an enclosure that is 24 inch by 24 inch and 18 tall. Keeping the temps correct isn't really very hard but the humidly is a it trickier. It can be done however, substrate choice and a few tricks here and there.

3 feet tall might pose a bit more issues with heating and humidity. My guy climbs quite a lot in the nights, Many well know authors also back this up,

Bartlett & Bartlett "despite being heavy bodied, ball pythons can climb adeptly."

de Vosjoli "...may even climb on branches close to the ground"

Personally a larger enclosure like what you have suggested is fine (less height maybe easier...) Lots of 'landscaping hides and plants will give a secure feeling for your ball and give you something to look at when it is hiding.

There is nothing wrong with tubs! They are easy and simple to keep and the animals are healthy kept in tubs. That is why breeders use them!

I have one snake and one coming so it takes me 20 min to clean his enclosure (40 for two) I enjoy that time. It is a bit more of a of a balancing act to get things right I love technical issues anyway. I also relax after work by just looking in the enclosure sometimes my guy is out in the evenings sometimes not, but either way I enjoy that too. I can see his trails he makes and I enjoy the enclosure look too.

Personally it is worth the extra work. I had him in tubs and I felt like I wanted to take him out all the time to handle as I couldn't see him through the sides. Than can cause stress so in my case a bigger display enclosure I get my time with him with out over handling. Just my personally feelings here.

My biggest trick for humidity is rocks. I have a chunk of a fine grained porous rock (rainbow stone in my case) I actually have two... I soak one for a day and them pat the surface dry and place it in the enclosure. over a few days it dries out releasing the water it holds back to the air. It takes 3-5 days to dry completely and bumps up the humidity a notch (7-10%) Then when it is dry I place my second one in taking the first out and into boiling water from the kettle and start the cycle all over.

I think your best bet is to find a different species of snake that would be better suited for a nice display enclosure. Ball pythons make awful display animals (sorry guys, you just do).

When they are happiest, they will RARELY come out of their hides and while they do -sometimes- climb, it is usually due to stress from being in such a large enclosure.

I see my snakes out of their hides once or twice a week right around feeding day.

Perhaps you could look into some more arboreal or semi-arboreal species? They would be much more fun to watch in such a cool enclosure :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

I think your best bet is to find a different species of snake that would be better suited for a nice display enclosure. Ball pythons make awful display animals (sorry guys, you just do).

When they are happiest, they will RARELY come out of their hides and while they do -sometimes- climb, it is usually due to stress from being in such a large enclosure.

I see my snakes out of their hides once or twice a week right around feeding day.

Perhaps you could look into some more arboreal or semi-arboreal species? They would be much more fun to watch in such a cool enclosure :)

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I agree...sounds like a very nice setup, I'd put a carpet python in it and get a tub for my ball.

Interesting, where do you get your information that healthy ball pythons never come out of their hides but to feed?

Mine is not stressed, feeds regularly and is quite docile handling (often content to sit and chill for long periods) Climbs regularly during the evening and night. Typically he hides for a day or two after feeding then will usually spend an evening 3/4 out of his hide, often moving to his fav high spot over the doors of the enclosure. This is typical for a day or two again and the night before feeding day he starts actively poking around 'hunting'

If your ball has always been in a tub how do you know it won't climb?

When mine was in a tub the behaviour was very different and did not display typical wild. Could not climb as the tub was too short. I am not saying that a tub is bad but a display enclosure isn't bad either. I agree that they aren't the best display animals but they are a great all round one!

Being in a tank is not like being in the wild. Just because it is moving around more doesn't mean it is "happier".

Ball pythons will rarely leave burrows and termite mounds in the wild. That is a fact.

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

often moving to his fav high spot over the doors of the enclosure. This is typical for a day or two

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No disrespect, but if this is typical behavior by your bp, you need to check your husbandry. What are you heating with, temps, humidity, ect?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FatBoy

No disrespect, but if this is typical behavior by your bp, you need to check your husbandry. What are you heating with, temps, humidity, ect?

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I agree

My bp leaves his hide to eat, maybe drink or to go across the tub to his cool hide. Iv yet to see him out "exploring"

@ OP

And for that cage maybe you should look into a diff species. Maybe a boa xD

Mine's in a nice big boaphile display cage, he doesn't seem to mind the extra space, I don't have it filled full of crap either but it is harder to heat and like stated, BPs are not a display snake, they are pretty inactive, will roam around during the night sometimes but often hide if you start looking at them anyways, the rest of the time you will see their head at most. Also mine is an adult male, he was in a 10 gallon tank when he was small. I wouldn't put a baby bp in a large enclosure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Being in a tank is not like being in the wild. Just because it is moving around more doesn't mean it is "happier".

Ball pythons will rarely leave burrows and termite mounds in the wild. That is a fact.

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No, a enclosure is not the wild but it MUST be a facsimile of one, we as keepers work hard to simulate the natural conditions in which a Ball python is adapted. To believe other wise is naive.

"Replicating a snakes's natural environment can ameliorate some adaptation problems" Dr. J Rossi 'What's wrong with my snake'


I disagree Ball pythons in the wild must as in captivity regulate their temperatures, the must bask to raise the internal temperatures, they must also hunt. Usually this means moving from burrow to occupied burrow and eating the residents.

" A ball python will usually begin spending more time in water just days before shedding. After about five days of swimming and then sunbathing, the ball python will be ready to shed. It will spend hours rubbing against a rock or tree to loosen its skin before sliding completely out." - David Barker

"In the wild, ball pythons are mostly active at night. They spend most of the daylight hours hiding in holes or other shelters." B Cornett Ultimate Guide to Ball Pythons

"...Under these conditions, my ball pythons are healthy, ACTIVE and eating regularly." B Cornett Ultimate Guide to Ball Pythons

"Starting in the early evening, even if the lights are still on, ball pythons will emerge from their shelters. If hungry they will hunt and may even climb on branches close to the ground." Philippe de Vosjoli 'The Art of Keeping Snakes'

FatBoy, It is possible that you mis understood what I intended here. He will often climb up to is high spot 2 or 3 times a week for 20-30 min a visit. He does not stay there during daylight just evening/night.

For the record...

My temps are ambient 'air' inside the enclosure (physic middle) 83ºF (IR gun cannot measure 'air' temps just spot temps and there are differing degrees of angle if you have a scanning type I have a basic IR gun, a Hart handheld 1521) the cool side is 80.7 the hot side interior is 90.8. Humidity is 57% hot and 62% cool (there is a slight gradient)


Climbing,

"Despite being heavy bodied, Ball Pythons can climb adeptly. We there-fore provide a minimum cage height of two feet and elevated perches." Bartlett and Bartlett 'Snakes'

Op there is no reason that with work your enclosure cannot be made a good environment for a ball python. Its shape however is better suited for a arboreal snake. It may be possible to close off the a bit of the top to help with environmental controls.

The quotes are from reputable published sources. I hate being told that an active snake must be sick or stressed. A typical pattern of hiding during the day and after meals. Emerging from a hide during night time/evening hours and spending some time out and about is not abnormal. I don't mean to say all night or every night but not emerging at all isn't normal either. There is a lot of room for variations here I don't think either extreme is normal hiding all the time could be in security with the condition of the enclosure not hiding at all the same hold true, some where in between seems is logical.

It is 8:30pm here and my boy is just peeking out of his hot hide. He fed yesterday so he will likely not come out tonight or tomorrow but usually wednesday night he will leave his hides and spend a bit of time out and about. The end of the week he will likely climb on his branch and or door top. I am NOT saying that a tub enclosure is un-healthy that has been proven incorrect. But I am saying that a snake that is active some times at night isn't stressed or not being well cared for.
Alex

KiteDemon, thank you very much for the details and the quotes… definitely food for thought…


For those who think considering another species is advisable for my situations… what species would you suggest for a 2’ x 2’ @ 3’ tall display that stays at or under 6’?

Toby Np how much experience do you have? As I mentioned a ball could be made to work but something else might do better. The question of what is how much do you know now. What are you looking for from a snake?Something that handles well or that looks good, or is very active?

I started keeping ‘exotics’ back in the mid 80’s and have had either reptiles or fish ever since…
For the last dozen years I’ve had 300~1200 gallons of fish tanks…
I’ve been burnt out on fish for a year or two and have been downsizing while becoming more interested in reptiles and amphibians again…
I’m finishing up putting together a handful of vivariums for Poison Dart Frogs…
I currently have a very hand tame 4’ Tegu…

So I’m no expert, but I am the type to thoroughly educate myself about my pets and I do take their care seriously…


I’m looking for a Boa/Python that I can keep in a decorative display cabinet that also is handlable. I do like snakes that come in different ‘morphs’. I do plan to breed the pair that I acquire.

The display cabinet I have in mind will be side by side 2’x 2’ @ 3’ tall enclosures… but could be remodeled to be 4’ x 2’ @ 1.5’ tall… As the enclosure is not built, all of these numbers are negotiable.


I looked into Corn Snakes for a while and while they come in a wealth of breedable morphs, their smaller frame and overly simple care seemed like something that would fail to really fill my nook. I’m not looking to be crack open a new area of the hobby, but I do appreciate a challenge… I also favor the robust look of Boas/Pythons over the skinny little field snakes.


I did look into Carpet Pythons a little bit last night and they do look like they would fit my nook quite well…

I think the enclosure you are thinking about would be almost perfect for a carpet python.

I personally have never had a carpet but from the care sheets I have read they sound right. An Irian Jaya Jaguar combos look amazing

Perhaps a brazilian rainbow boa? The care for them is a little more intense (high humidity) but an automatic fogger with a nice display would look great.