Advice On First Feed?

HI,

I am nervous about our first feed. I brought my 2 month old BP home yesterday from the reptile show. The breeder said the last time he ate was last Monday and he recommended I wait until Wednesday to try feeding him. The problem is he fed him live hoppers. I don't intend to feed live and I'm afraid he won't eat f/t. I read that they should be left alone to acclimate for two full weeks before feeding. I'm wondering if I should wait longer than he recommended. Also I'm reading on the boards that people are feeding in their regular tanks. Should I not put him in a separate enclosure to eat? I only have experience with corn snakes so far and I always take him out of his tank to feed him.

I appreciate any advice I can get.

Thanks

I would leave him completely alone for one week starting from the day you got him.

After one week, offer a live hopper if you can get one, or you can try a f/t. If he doesn't eat the f/t, try a live hopper the following week. Your main goal is to get the animal eating. Once he is eating consistently then you can worry about switching to f/t.

I feed all my snakes in their home enclosures. Moving them to another enclosure is just making the situation more stressful. There is really no reason to move them to another enclosure.

PS: you went to the wheaton show? I was about to go but then I had to move out of my apartment...haha. Perhaps I will see you at the next one?

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Originally Posted by Twoboyz

HI,

I am nervous about our first feed. I brought my 2 month old BP home yesterday from the reptile show. The breeder said the last time he ate was last Monday and he recommended I wait until Wednesday to try feeding him. The problem is he fed him live hoppers. I don't intend to feed live and I'm afraid he won't eat f/t. I read that they should be left alone to acclimate for two full weeks before feeding. I'm wondering if I should wait longer than he recommended. Also I'm reading on the boards that people are feeding in their regular tanks. Should I not put him in a separate enclosure to eat? I only have experience with corn snakes so far and I always take him out of his tank to feed him.

I appreciate any advice I can get.

Thanks

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You should wait at least one week to try and feed the snake, and if it refuses only try once a week. For the first two or three feeds, give the snake what it is used to eating, which is live, otherwise you could just ad to the stress. After you have established that it will eat for you (After two or three feeds) you can then try and make the switch. Feeding in the enclosure is the best way to keep the stress level down, and it is not necessary to feed in a separate enclosure.

If you decide to make the switch to frozen thawed after feeding the live, you will need to get some used mouse bedding. After thawing and drying the mouse, you should then blow dry the head to make it the warmest spot on the body. It should tell the snake where to strike.

Good luck to you, and congratulations on your first ball python!

Thanks for the advice everyone. As for the live mice, I'm really squeemish about that. Where can I get them? Do they have them at Petco? So unlike Corn snakes, they won't mistake your hand for food when you reach in their tank to pick them up?

Hi Steffe,

Yes, I was at the Wheaton show for the fist time. Very cool place. I intend to go again, but probalby not the next one. I'm not sure when I can get there again. I have to wait for an opportunity as weekends now are filled with baseball. I just got lucky on Saturday so we were able to go. Hope to run into you there sometime for sure.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by Twoboyz

So unlike Corn snakes, they won't mistake your hand for food when you reach in their tank to pick them up?

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Unless ur hand smells like rats/mice then generally no.

I've been getting my mice from Petco. Size is a big factor in your snake eating. I have not seen hoppers there but they do have large & small adults. :snake:

Thanks. According to the breeder he's been on hoppers. At least I can empathize with the poor guy. He's probably stressed right now and I'm definitely stressed. :(

Hi,

I'm back again for more advice. I still haven't gotten my little guy to eat. I contacted a local reptile shop to ask if they had live hoppers and they told me to just try the f/t that they usually accept them just fine. Well, I've tried twice now and he wants nothing to do with them.

So, despite my feeling of nausea and just overall "badness" about torturing a poor little mouse, I am ready to break down and just do it. Does anyone know where to get hopper size mice in the chicago area? The breeder said that I can try rubbing the live one on the f/t to scent it and then try feeding, but at this point I'm not sure that will work.

So here are my questions about feeding live. Do I just drop the mouse in the tank with him and watch? I'm afraid that he'll get hurt by the mouse from things I've read about feeding live. What if he wants nothing to do with the mouse? Then what do I do? Should I take the mouse out, and then what do I do with him? I don't really have anythign to keep him in.

I'm starting to get worried about him. He's just a little guy and I think he's not acclimating very well. It's been just over a week since we got him. Today it's been two weeks since he ate. also, I have him in a 20 gallon long tank. I really only see him staying on one side. Is he in too big of an enclosure? I never see him moving around unless it's at night when I don't see him.

So should I wait another week to feed him? Should I start handling him a little now to get him used to me? A little bit each day? Or should I leave him alone until he eats?

If there is anyone out there willing to take on all my questions, I really appreciate it.
Thanks

I got my boa from that show on the first as well. He was being fed live hoppers. I came home and he took a f/t fuzzy right away. This last Saturday he took another. I wouldn't give up just yet on f/t. Make sure your are getting it warm enough. Do you have a temp gun? I warm mine to low 90s.

Look first off

Make sure your temps and humidity are CORRECT

Leave him alone for a week.

Get him eating on live for a few times for ya

Then you can try the switch to f/t :gj:

But keep in mind the first and second thing i said. These lead to stress. And stress leads to not eating :bow:

Edit: And as far as holding. IMO i think it's just stupid to hold a new snake who you haven't gotten to eat. Snakes don't like to be held they tolerate it. And if he is stressed out and not eating for you lets not add more to it :)

Edit x2:Also if u got a digital scale u could see how many grams he is and feed him 10-15% if his body weight if hes under like 1000g's i think.

Thanks guys for your advice. I will leave him alone. I have a baby corn snake in a separate tank next to him. Could that be stressing him out? maybe I could put a background on that side of the glass so he doesn't see him? Or am I just being overly paranoid? There are lots of hides for him on both sides.

As far as his environment goes, I have an UTH with a thermostat attached to it and a digital therm/hyg with two sensors. The reading is constantly at approx 85 degrees and humidity fluxuates from 45 - 50%. He's always on the side by the UTH, so maybe I am keeping it a bit too cold? Maybe I should increase the temp to 90? I'll do that when I get home.

I'm just really afraid to feed live. I know I'm a wimp, but really the only way I agreed to let me son have a snake was becuase of the f/t option. Now I'm in love with snakes myself, but still not ready for live prey. Just no cut out for it. I've been a cute cuddly furry pet kinda person all my life until now

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Originally Posted by Twoboyz

Thanks guys for your advice. I will leave him alone. I have a baby corn snake in a separate tank next to him. Could that be stressing him out? maybe I could put a background on that side of the glass so he doesn't see him? Or am I just being overly paranoid? There are lots of hides for him on both sides.

As far as his environment goes, I have an UTH with a thermostat attached to it and a digital therm/hyg with two sensors. The reading is constantly at approx 85 degrees and humidity fluxuates from 45 - 50%. He's always on the side by the UTH, so maybe I am keeping it a bit too cold? Maybe I should increase the temp to 90? I'll do that when I get home.

I'm just really afraid to feed live. I know I'm a wimp, but really the only way I agreed to let me son have a snake was becuase of the f/t option. Now I'm in love with snakes myself, but still not ready for live prey. Just no cut out for it. I've been a cute cuddly furry pet kinda person all my life until now

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Yea 90* for the uth is good. Make sure thats UNDER the substrate. So you put ur thermometer probe under the substrate(keep in mind its the thermometer probe not tstat probe) if you have the temp at 85 there is some degrees lost between the uth and the top of the substrate where he is so i would raise it a bit. Also try to bump ur humidity up a bit if u can keep it at constant 50-60%

Thanks Mike. I have the thermostat probe and the thermometer probe under the stubstrate sitting on the glass directly over the UTH. I didn't think about degrees being lost through the substrate though. I'll have to spritz more I guess to try to boost the humidity up. I cut open a large ziploc bag and placed it over the screen top, leaving just a little opening. I think that's helping, but I'm still not up to 60 %. Is it okay to spritz with just plain water? I got this stuff with the zilla starter kit that's supposed to be some kind of conditioner as well. When i run out, I'd just like to fill up a spray bottle with water. Probably a dumb question, but I'm overly paranoid about doing everything right.
Thanks

Your thermostat probe should be OUTSIDE the enclosure taped directly to the UTH. If the snake were to move it accidentally, your UTH would spike and burn your animal.

Also, if this is a small snake I would move to a 10g enclosure for a while. A large enclosure is enough to put a ball python off feed. Also, if you are using those half log hides featured in your avatar picture, pitch them and get some "cave like" hides. I use plastic cereal bowls from the dollar store. It doesn't need to be expensive. His hides should touch him on all sides. and there should be one small entrance.

Spraying with regular water is fine, but if you have hard water you will have deposit buildup on the glass (just looks bad, not harmful to the animal). I like to use distilled water for misting to avoid this.

Don't be scared of feeding live. The only time it is harmful is if your snake is completely not interested in eating and you leave a hungry feeder in there alone with the snake. As long as you supervise the feeding, your snake will be perfectly fine. Feeding live for the first couple feedings will kick start his appetite and make it much easier to move to f/t. It would be wise to get a small tub or critter keeper to keep uneaten feeders in. You can just feed them basically anything, cereal or dog food works. Just make sure your feeders are well fed before you offer them to the snake.

I know petland carries feeders. A small adult mouse should be fine for your snake. A hopper is going to be a little harder to find. You would need to find a local breeder.

PS: Hello from Chicago! What suburb are you in? Are you going to the all animal expo this weekend in Wheaton?

Hi Steffe,

I would really like to go to the show this weekend, to talk to the breeder some more. I'm not sure if I can make it because both of my sons are in baseball tournaments and the sunday games all depend on the saturday games. I also would like to meet Terri because I've been talking to her on the corn snake forums. I'll look for you if I make it there.

Okay, I'll tape the probe to the outside. That's great, one less wire to try to wedge between the tank and the lid! do you just use duct tape? Does it hold when it heats up? Seems like it should, it's used on heating ducts right?

I'll move him to my 10 gallon tank. I have one that I planned to put my new cornsnake in. I'll just put him in the 20. My other cornsnake baby seemed to do just fine in my other 20 gallon tank. Is there any other solution to sticking an UTH to the tank witout it being permanent? I hate that I always have to buy another UTH everytime I buy a new tank. They cost almost as much as the tanks do.

About the feeder mouse, you think a little 2 month old BP can eat a small mouse? The frozen hoppers I bought look tiny. I've heard petco carries small mice. I'll have to find petland. Not sure if I've ever heard of them. I also know there is the Reptile House in Orland Park, but that's kind of far. I live in Des Plaines.

Sorry, every answer I get seems to be followed by more questions. You guys are all such a huge help to me and I'm so thankful you're here.

Take care and thanks for all your wisdom.

No sweat! They have two shows every month :) I plan on being at most of them this summer.

Aluminum tape is your new best friend. It is great for adhering probes on the outside of the enclosure and is great for attaching UTHs. Foil tape, aluminum tape, it should be where all the other ducting stuff is in your hardware store or home depot. It is a little expensive (like $8 a roll) but it will last you a long while and it is actually quite useful!

Nothing wrong with asking questions! I would rather people ask questions then just sit in front of their snake baffled :giggle:

Thanks. Looks like I have some running around to do today. I'm almost relieved to retire the 20 gallon tanks. More room for US in the house!

Funny, we thought he liked his new home because he was cruising all over checkign things out when we first brought him home. Then he just settled down and we never see him anymore. We're so anxious to be able to interact with him. The waiting is hard...

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Originally Posted by Twoboyz

Thanks. Looks like I have some running around to do today. I'm almost relieved to retire the 20 gallon tanks. More room for US in the house!

Funny, we thought he liked his new home because he was cruising all over checkign things out when we first brought him home. Then he just settled down and we never see him anymore. We're so anxious to be able to interact with him. The waiting is hard...

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Yeah I have some running around to do today for my geckos XD

Wait until you discover tubs :P Then you will have all the room you could ever want, haha!

Yeah, for the first week or so, a ball python will cruise a lot. Once they are settled in, they rarely leave their hides. The first week is the hardest, trust me I have been there 10 times so far! :snake:

Yeah, seems like most people have tubs. I don't know anything about tubs, ie. heating locking, etc. It was alot of work just to learn about setting up a tank! We kinda thought tanks are pretty with all the plants and stuff and we wanted to see our snake, but if he just hides all the time, whats the difference? My corn is out alot in the evening climbing and cruising and it's fun to watch him. I suppose if I keep buying more snakes I'll have no choice but to switch to tubs, becuase I can't fit anymore tanks in my house after these three!

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Originally Posted by Twoboyz

Yeah, seems like most people have tubs. I don't know anything about tubs, ie. heating locking, etc. It was alot of work just to learn about setting up a tank! We kinda thought tanks are pretty with all the plants and stuff and we wanted to see our snake, but if he just hides all the time, whats the difference? My corn is out alot in the evening climbing and cruising and it's fun to watch him. I suppose if I keep buying more snakes I'll have no choice but to switch to tubs, becuase I can't fit anymore tanks in my house after these three!

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Tubs are actually simpler then tanks. For ball pythons, two hides, a water bowl, substrate, heat mat, thermometer and thermostat is all you need.

Corns are better suited for displays because they actually move, lol. Ball pythons...not so much XD

I'll have to talk to you at the show about the tubs to get more info :)
Thanks

He finally ate tonight!! We had to feed him a live one. I didn't make it to the Wheaton show today, but I picked up a small mouse at Petco. He struck at it within about 30 seconds. I guess the little dude was hungry after three weeks. If anyone can offer some advice on switching over to f/t, I'd be truly grateful. I'm only a little traumatized by the whole thing. Actually it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be, but I'd prefer to feed f/t.

We fed him a small mouse and he's been on hoppers prior to this. The breeder was feeding him once per week. Should I feed him again in a week or wait a little longer since this was a bigger meal than he's used to.

BTW, I followed all your advice and switched him over to a 10 gallon tank, raised the heat and himidity and got him some smaller hides. He seems more comfortable. Thanks!

Congratulations, you can continue to feed him weekly, Just remember to give him about 36-48 hours of no handling after he eats for digestion, and your handling sessoins should be around 20 minutes or so to start out until he gets used to you... :gj:

Thanks, I will. I'm most excited to be able to start handling him. It's been a long 3 weeks! Now all I have to worrry about is transitioning him to f/t mice.

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Originally Posted by Twoboyz

Hi,

I'm back again for more advice. I still haven't gotten my little guy to eat. I contacted a local reptile shop to ask if they had live hoppers and they told me to just try the f/t that they usually accept them just fine. Well, I've tried twice now and he wants nothing to do with them.

So, despite my feeling of nausea and just overall "badness" about torturing a poor little mouse, I am ready to break down and just do it. Does anyone know where to get hopper size mice in the chicago area? The breeder said that I can try rubbing the live one on the f/t to scent it and then try feeding, but at this point I'm not sure that will work.

So here are my questions about feeding live. Do I just drop the mouse in the tank with him and watch? I'm afraid that he'll get hurt by the mouse from things I've read about feeding live. What if he wants nothing to do with the mouse? Then what do I do? Should I take the mouse out, and then what do I do with him? I don't really have anythign to keep him in.

I'm starting to get worried about him. He's just a little guy and I think he's not acclimating very well. It's been just over a week since we got him. Today it's been two weeks since he ate. also, I have him in a 20 gallon long tank. I really only see him staying on one side. Is he in too big of an enclosure? I never see him moving around unless it's at night when I don't see him.

So should I wait another week to feed him? Should I start handling him a little now to get him used to me? A little bit each day? Or should I leave him alone until he eats?

If there is anyone out there willing to take on all my questions, I really appreciate it.
Thanks

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First off, calm down... :)

Secondly, I wouldnt be so worried about the F/T thing. Did you make sure to heat the mouse up under the light for a few minutes?

This is what I do with my baby BP that I had to switch to FT..

1) Place frozen mouse into a plastic container with the lid on and place it next to the snake cage.

2) Let the mouse sit for 5-6 hours in normal room temperature to thaw slowly. This does two things, first it thaws the frozen mouse (duh!) but it also slowly starts to release the odor of the mouse just enough that the snake with recognize it for the last few hours. My snake started roaming around looking for food at this point. Its good because it gets them anxious to eat food. Hope this doesnt sound mean but its almost like teasing them for a few hours to get them primed for strike mode.

3) After 5 ish hours and your sure its thawed, I place the mouse on the lid of the plastic container and put that under the heat lamp (making sure the lid or mouse are NOT touching the bulb). Typically ill leave it there for 5-10 min just to get it nice and warm.

4) Take your tweezers and do the mouse dance about 4-6 inches from the front of the snake (at eye level seems to help alot). If he is in his hide, just dance the mouse past the entrance to lure him out a bit.

5) TRY TO REMAIN CALM! When i first tried this I was brand new to snakes and SUPER nervous the first time. The snake can sense those emotions of adrenaline in your body and might scare it. So try to remain nice and calm and things should work well.

Good luck!

Thanks Big Blue. I'm alot calmer now that he ate last night. I appreciate the advice on how to prepare the mouse. I'll try it when I try to make the switch. I've been told that I should feed him a couple times live before I switch him over. So in a couple of weeks....we do the mouse dance again :taz:

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Originally Posted by Twoboyz

Thanks Big Blue. I'm alot calmer now that he ate last night. I appreciate the advice on how to prepare the mouse. I'll try it when I try to make the switch. I've been told that I should feed him a couple times live before I switch him over. So in a couple of weeks....we do the mouse dance again :taz:

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Great to know TB!

Glad to hear it.

Personally, my snake was feeding live when I bought him and I immediately tried to get him on F/T. The first attempt didnt work well (in hindsight, I also didnt heat up the mouse, which is VERY important for them to be able to "see" the heat signature).

I heard about feeding live just to get it to eat, but as long as the husbandry things are right, I dont see a problem with trying F/T.

My fear was not being able to make the switch and have my guy get "attached" to eating live.

Good luck in the future. Glad to know your baby fed last night.

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Originally Posted by BigBlue56

My fear was not being able to make the switch and have my guy get "attached" to eating live.

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I know I am worried about him getting hooked on live too, but other's have said that since he's still young (about 3 months) it shouldn't be a problem. Other than that, the temp is around 91 deg with humidity between 60-70%, with two little hides, one on each side. So I think I have everythign covered. I think the problem was a cold mouse.

Take care!

Hi everyone. Just an update here. Thanks to all your good advice and also some good advice from The Chicago Reptile House, Creed has been on f/t for about a month now and eating like a champ. Can't believe we ever had a problem.

Here's the trick that finally did it. We were told by a nice guy at The Chicago Reptile House to warm up the mouse and touch it's nose to the heat lamp bulb for a few seconds. Worked like a charm.

Thanks again guys. My little Creed is getting bigger and I'm one happy ball python mommy :banana:

I'm glad everything worked out!:) I will be getting my ball python soon and I'm so excited! :D

Congrats...Now that you made it over the hump...Get ready for the addiction to start...First Balls, then breeding, then jump into Carpets, then Burms, then become a part of the world of Tics... :D:D

Grats to you Scott. BPs are the best. Our little guy has the greatest disposition. We just love him!

Thanks Pandp. I know, the addiction has already gotten to me. As of last week I'm the proud owner of an anery red tail boa. We love her too. We had our first feed two days ago and it was like night and day. She snapped up that mouse in an instant! How nice that was.

Take care. Thanks for the well wishes everyone.

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Originally Posted by Twoboyz

Thanks Pandp. I know, the addiction has already gotten to me. As of last week I'm the proud owner of an anery red tail boa. We love her too. We had our first feed two days ago and it was like night and day. She snapped up that mouse in an instant! How nice that was.

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Beautiful...Moving up to a RTB (red tail boa) already, perfect :gj:...They are great, I raised and bred those for years...You're right on target for another bigger snake in a short period of time...I can't wait to see you jump in and fully enjoy this world...Feel free to reach out anytime...What little knowledge I have I'm always willing to pass on..

Oh I've fully jumped head first! Started in April and now I have four. Thanks! I've learned so much from these boards. What a great community :)