Would You Buy?

Ok, so I know very little about "spinning" associated with spiders and apparently woma's. This guy is selling a male woma for what seems like a great price. He immediately told me up front that he spins. He apparently eats weekly with no problems, and has done it since he was a hatchling. Says he functions normally and "would make someone a great pet." He says it happens mainly when he's stressed and you can notice when he is roaming his cage, when he usually has his head tilted. He again enforced that it hasn't affected his feeding and he has never missed or had trouble taking down small rats.

I'm guessing the key is not to breed him, and I wouldn't. My question is, what exactly is spinning, and could it affect him longterm?

More importantly, would you all buy him? Here's a photo. Don't know a ton about woma's so look forward to ya'lls advice. He's asking $50....

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/...andom/woma.jpg
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/...ndom/woma2.jpg

For $50 I wouldn't even have asked :P Get him!

He seems VERY well fed too.

But same here, dont know much about womas.

He's definitely a looker, just scared of the spinning...

Don't buy him as a breeder. Womas don't spin like spiders. If this one is spinning, there is some other cause for it than just his pattern mutation.

If this is a pet, then it's fine, but I would quarantine him away from the rest of the collection for at least a full year.

What would cause the spinning? And a full year? Geez...

I wouldn't hesitate.

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Originally Posted by ALTownsend1

What would cause the spinning? And a full year? Geez...

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Neurological problems
Sickness
Exposure to extreme heat
Exposure to chemicals



I would avoid a $50 spinning woma like the plague. Something is not right with the price and the spinning.

I agree, a $50, spinning Woma is not good, even though it is a pretty snake. A healthy Woma usually goes for $250+ depending on age and sex.

Well look at it like this....you get him and that will make sure that someone irresponsible dosent. It would be like a rescue. And for 50....even if you only had a few years with him, it would have been worth it

Is there a way to "heal" him?

I don't even know what spinning is!

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Originally Posted by PYMOM

Well look at it like this....you get him and that will make sure that someone irresponsible dosent. It would be like a rescue. And for 50....even if you only had a few years with him, it would have been worth it

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That is a good point. It may be caused by bad husbandry on the sellers part and may be recoverable once proper husbandry is met...

soooooooo...

I just need to know if womas have any genetic problems like spiders?

Is normal for a woma to spin?

If it is not normal, then yes I would pass.

Sorry I assumed too much in my first post.

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Originally Posted by ALTownsend1

Is there a way to "heal" him?

I don't even know what spinning is!

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Spinning or "wobbling" is a genetic "disorder" commonly found in spiders and spider combos mainly. Many people still debate if this "disorder" truly effects the snakes health but I don't belief an answer has been found yet.
Many Spiders will wobble back and forth or hold their bodies in strange positions that don't seem "normal".
A lot of owners normally note that this is likely to occur when the snake is exited or about to feed, I have never owned a spider myself and have never seen it but this picture shows a strange positions I mentioned earlier.

http://www.coreywoods.com/Misc/Spide...eHead_3666.jpg

i didnt know womas wobbled. is it genetic liike spiders? u can ind womas for a good price, only a lil more than that one and they look a lot better, are better quality, and DONT WOBBLE. id pass

I've heard of several people's womas spinning like spiders. I know they aren't the same mutation, but it does seem to affect womas sometimes (as it can with any morph or normal). There are a few threads on spinning womas if you do a search on here.

That said, I wouldn't breed a spinning woma because there are "clean" womas you can breed out there instead. As a pet, I wouldn't worry much over it. It looks to be a beautiful snake.

Thanks for all the advice, although I still have no idea what to do...

I've not seen nor heard of a woma spinning.

Sounds like it was over heated at some point, that I have seen and it does resemble a spiders corkscrewing.

Altownsend1- theres alot of advice here but what it all boils down to is this: the decision is ultimately yours to make.
if you can handle a snake with a wobble then get it.
if your looking to breed then i'd pass.
i wish you the best of luck.

My spider has a slight wobble, and yet he's the best eater in my (BP) collection - strikes and coils live prey in a split-second, never missing a beat. :gj: It doesn't seem to bother him, and is only really noticeable when he's pre-strike or nervous. But I would be concerned about the cause of this Woma's spin, so that is something to consider... I think the post above mine sums it up pretty well.

Perhaps this Woma has a spider gene that the owner doesnt know about?

That could explain alot, and he could just be fearful of the wobble and wants to sell it quick at a low price to move it.

Its a gorgeous snake either way. I think Id take the chance for 50 bucks and leave him in his own tank for a bit.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I've not seen nor heard of a woma spinning.

Sounds like it was over heated at some point, that I have seen and it does resemble a spiders corkscrewing.

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DING DING DING we have a winner

Just spoke with the owner some more and he shed some light on the spinning (no pun intended). Turns out the previous owners kept their home extremely warm, and had THREE lamps on him at all times.

The seller couldn't be more courteous and respectful of the animal, having turned away people offering to pay more than 50 who planned on breeding him. He says he'd rather the snake go to a home as a pet than make a few extra $$$. He himself is a breeder, hence the sale.

It truly is looking like more of a rescue situation, something I've been looking into doing for some time. With overnight shipping (Pensacola-Gainesville), it would be 75 total. I want to see this snake go to a home that will love it as a pet, not a breeder, and I feel like I can provide that, and just happen to have two extra slots in my rack and a few extra dollars in my wallet ;)

I appreciate all the advice, and welcome any more opinions you all have. The seller is sending me a few more photos, and I will be sure to include those on this thread as well. I am not 100% getting the snake, but it is definitely becoming more likely that I will:banana:

Here are a few pics from the seller, a lot larger than I expected actually, although not necessarily big. Apparently at his darkest portion of the shed cycle in these, hence the less than amazing coloration...further opinions?

http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/...m/IMG_0190.jpg
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/...m/IMG_0187.jpg
http://i1021.photobucket.com/albums/...m/IMG_0188.jpg

The decision is yours. It is a nice looking woma but I too have not heard of womas spinning. Mine doesnt. Maybe they can. I dont know.

It's between this guy and a normal female, about 500 grams that has a dorsal stripe a little more than halfway down the back...different seller, same price....decisions decisions...:rolleye2:

Well you said you have two slots open on your rack...gett'em both :gj:

Oh, if you're not going to breed him, absolutely, buy him. $50 is a fine price for a pet animal. I doubt there are any other issues causing the guy to sell at that price--it's always hard to watch a heavy spinner trying to climb or feed. But the snake in the pic looks pretty chubby, so he's clearly eating. He'll make a fine pet, and he needs a good home.

i say go for it take a chance because if he does not get it then you got an awesome snake for cheap!

Personally I would pass on the deal. It is coming from a breeder and there is obviously something wrong with it hence the uber cheap price point. I say no way Jose

For $50, I would take the chance! Worst case senerio you get a bad snake for $50! Not a hard pill to swallow! I would not put it in your rack for a couple months anyways! Just to be safe!

Not to be rude.... but why cant people read a whole thread instead or reading first post, then posting.....

Anyways (sorry for rant), I SAY GO FOR IT!!!!!


if it got nurelogical problems from over heating, it could still make a great pet! you have a wonderfull opertunity to pick up a amazing snake, at a great price, though its not perfect, its still a great animal none the less!

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Originally Posted by dc1

Not to be rude.... but why cant people read a whole thread instead or reading first post, then posting.....

Anyways (sorry for rant), I SAY GO FOR IT!!!!!


if it got nurelogical problems from over heating, it could still make a great pet! you have a wonderfull opertunity to pick up a amazing snake, at a great price, though its not perfect, its still a great animal none the less!

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X2
And since its most likely not genetic it may go away with proper care :D
If not then it will be a great story and most likely a great snake for your collection :gj:

I HAVE heard of womas spinning, by the way--I've seen it. My friend has a female woma who spins like crazy. It's distressing to watch. And my friend is annoyed about it, too, because she had no idea womas could spin, she had plans for this female, and the breeder never said a word about it.

I think if the spinning is that bad, it explains the $50 price tag. But if you do buy him, don't breed him! No need to make it worse with more spinning woma babies.

Like i said earlier there is something wrong with it hence the low price tag. I did read the whole thread by the way. I don't see how a neurological disorder can go away, it sure hasn't with the spider morph.

Sure it is a pretty snake but I would buy a healthy animals with no known problems before I would buy a discounted animal with issues. I highly doubt someone offered a higher price for it and they turned it down. It's about the mighty dollar man, the price is so cheap because no one wants to buy a animal with problems.
Realistically you can't look at this as a rescue either. The animal is in a good home so to say, so your buying a problem animal that he doesn't want to deal with.

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Originally Posted by bman123

Like i said earlier there is something wrong with it hence the low price tag. I did read the whole thread by the way. I don't see how a neurological disorder can go away, it sure hasn't with the spider morph.

Sure it is a pretty snake but I would buy a healthy animals with no known problems before I would buy a discounted animal with issues. I highly doubt someone offered a higher price for it and they turned it down. It's about the mighty dollar man, the price is so cheap because no one wants to buy a animal with problems.
Realistically you can't look at this as a rescue either. The animal is in a good home so to say, so your buying a problem animal that he doesn't want to deal with.

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You say you've read the entire thread, and yet you completely passed over the fact that it has already been stated that this animal would be bought from a BREEDER who got the animal WITH it's issues already in place due to lack of proper husbandry by the PREVIOUS owner.

Could it possibly be that this breeder needs some space and would love the animal to go to a good home as a pet and does happen to have a conscience, forgoing the underhanded tactic of selling an animal with neurological problems for as high a price as a perfectly healthy Woma would go for?

Lol you guys crack me up.
Ok so a breeder bought the snake knowing it had issues and now they are trying to dump it off on someone for a cheap price. Nobodys gonna pay full woma price when it has issues that's why I highly doubt anyone offered them a realistic healthy animal price and they turned it down.

Say what ya want I read the thread, I do find it funny tho how a breeder bought it and now they are trying to sell it for only $50 when other people have offered them more.

Anyone can say no I'm not gonna breed it and still breed the animal that's why I don't believe the story at all. I'm not saying the person who started the thread is lying. I believe they are totally honest but I think what they were told was a lie.

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Originally Posted by bman123

Say what ya want I read the thread, I do find it funny tho how a breeder bought it and now they are trying to sell it for only $50 when other people have offered them more.

Anyone can say no I'm not gonna breed it and still breed the animal that's why I don't believe the story at all. I'm not saying the person who started the thread is lying. I believe they are totally honest but I think what they were told was a lie.

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I promise I'm not a liar!:tears:

It is probably true that he is bs-ing me on the offers, I agree. But it does say something that he isn't trying to sell it at normal price and screw an unknowing buyer

No I'm not saying that you are lying, not at all I truely believe you but I don't believe what the breeder is telling you at all. The breeders I know would not buy a animal with problems. It's just fishy that a breeder would buy a problematic animal from someone and then turn around and try to sell it to someone else.

It just sounds like a flipper to me. I'm not trying to ruffle anyones feathers here, that's the last thing I want to do. It just doesn't add up in my book but my opinion doesn't have to mean anything to you guys. I'm just stating how I feel on this situation.

I do believe the thread starter on this but I believe what he was told was a lie. It all comes down to what you want to do. I don't want any animals like that in my collection as it is sad to see stuff like neurological problems in animals. They can't help themselves and can't control it. Just like a handicapped person it is a shame that it happens and it is very sad, that's why I wouldn't buy it, I wouldn't take it even if it was free.

Get that snake a swing set or something. :)

While vehement arguments could be made either way on this, it IS possible the person who owns it is telling the truth. I bred birds for 20 years, and occasionally I took in a handicapped bird just to get it away from the owners who mistreated it. I intended to keep these birds for life, I certainly wouldn't try to sell them as healthy. However, on a few occasions, a particular person was taken with a handicapped bird, and I did sell one very cheap, knowing the buyer knew what they were getting into. I never regretted doing so, since each one I placed went on to live long lives, or are still living now. Would I do it every time, no. Did I also try giving the bird to the interested party? Yes, only to find out people who were serious about getting a handicapped bird always refused to take it for free, although one woman paid for the cage, and the bird happened to come with it, or that's what she told me.

My point is, maybe the snake owner is being truthful, if you don't know them how can you say for sure? While I have not yet heard about a spin or wobble in a Woma, I don't know everything and maybe they are out there, just not as widespread as Spiders.

The bottom line is, what if the snake is just what the owner says, a sweet, well fed pet who happens to have a small issue. If they snake is healthy and eats well, and judging from the pictures it does, and the OP only wants a pet, why shouldn't he get it? Who are you to tell him he'd be stupid to do it just because you wouldn't? If he thinks he has a place for this snake and he can live with the slight issue, I say bring that baby home!! If I were in his place, I would.

Gale

Bman123, I put a great looking marbled, striped borneo up for adoption last year. She had been born with a tongue deformity rendering it immobile. She also, on occasion, would get a very slight twitch to her head, which was almost unnoticeable unless you were really looking for it. I would have kept her as a pet but she would only eat live (I'm guessing because of her tongue deformity) which I did not have steady access to so I had to part with her. I was actually offered more than I was asking for her by one person (not much more, but a little bit) who intended on breeding her after I had turned them down the first time and I turned them down again. True, a prospective buyer could have lied and said they were not going to breed her when they actually were but at least I did what I could by avoiding individuals that blatantly admitted to wanting to breed her. She ended up going to someone who does educational programs for much less than I had been asking. Not saying that the breeder is definitely sincere, but it is at least a possibility. Additionally the breeder I got her from claimed to have no idea of her issues but told me to go ahead and keep her if I wanted to but also promptly sent me a replacement snake of my choosing. So yes, some breeders/flippers will pull scams, but there are some people just trying to do the right thing. At least the breeder was up front about the spinning and did not try to pass it off as a breeder, which he easily could have done.

ALTownsend1, as someone who had a "special needs" snake I think you should get it if a pet is what you're looking for. It looks healthy, other than the spinning of course, and if the breeder's other animals look well taken care of then this one probably is too.

In my opinion (and this is just my opinion!)

He looks like a well-fed, healthy snake, besides the spinning. If it were me, and I came across him at that price, I would buy him. I would not breed him; some people out there might, but I personally would not. But if he is eating well and healthy otherwise, he would make a nice addition to a collection visually. And I have a soft spot for special animals. :)

I am not that well-versed in breeding extremely wobbly snakes. If I researched it more, and found that breeders do breed their wobblers without an extreme danger of the offspring being wobbly, I would maybe go for it.