Pastel BP x Red Blood

Not sure if its been done at all.. I've heard of the Superball, done by Roussis.That bad boy is sick lookin too.. So has anyone done a pastel x red blood?

Cheers:gj:

The topic of hybrids is a very touchy one here. I too like the looks of the superballs but the genetics that control a morphs color would not be passed to a hybrid. Those genes are specific to that type of snake. A superball would still be only a borneo short tail (not a red blood) x BP hybrid and not a morph. Nor would it be het for anything.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

The topic of hybrids is a very touchy one here. I too like the looks of the superballs but the genetics that control a morphs color would not be passed to a hybrid. Those genes are specific to that type of snake. A superball would still be only a borneo short tail (not a red blood) x BP hybrid and not a morph. Nor would it be het for anything.

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Ok, not too sure what you mean. I failed science class a few times.. Are you sayin that if I breed a pastel bp to a red blood, the babies would just end up lookin like the blood? and not be able to pass the pastel trait on to the babies? thank you for your time.

Cheers:gj:

I don't really understand what the beef is with hybrids... health is of utmost importance, of course, but beyond that, the breeding we do is typically only for aesthetic purposes. many hybrids are beautiful, after all.

In response to the question, it would take some experimenting to see what genes might transfer over. I'd love to see some people try these, though!

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

The topic of hybrids is a very touchy one here. I too like the looks of the superballs but the genetics that control a morphs color would not be passed to a hybrid. Those genes are specific to that type of snake. A superball would still be only a borneo short tail (not a red blood) x BP hybrid and not a morph. Nor would it be het for anything.

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Can I just ask if the Genetics can not be passed onto Hybrids with Morphs then how come when the BurmBall was created they had an albino in the clutch ?

Also look at other hybrids corns X rat snakes granted they are closely related but still a Hybrid.

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Originally Posted by Tempestas

Can I just ask if the Genetics can not be passed onto Hybrids with Morphs then how come when the BurmBall was created they had an albino in the clutch ?

Also look at other hybrids corns X rat snakes granted they are closely related but still a Hybrid.

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Thats something that would need to be studied. The fact that so many people are against these snakes is the biggest reason it hasnt been studied. That and it generally takes a long time to even get a viable clutch from 2 such snakes. You must also trick them into breeding. Its usually a hit or miss thing. Being that the albino gene is common among most animals it is safe to say that it may be a common gene. Among snakes of the same family like pythons, it may be similer enough to produce albinos with a hybrid. On the contrary though, a spider ball or a pastel ball would most likely not be passed on. Certain color and marking traits that are not a similer morph in the other python. If there are no spider borneos, no pastel borneos, then chances are there would not be a similer gene in that snake to combine with the BPs morph gene.

Im no scientist so thats about as simple as I can put it. You wonder why people are against it? Well look at boa breeders. There are so many different and beautiful localities. Some are endangered and even considered extinct in the wild. The Sabogae boa has not been found on the islands in years. It has been extensivly searched for but its gone. The only remaining population is thought to be whats owned by private owners and breeders. These breeders are trying to preserve this extremely rare bloodline. Im sure many would be very disappointed if it was ever mixed with some other boa.

People are also against it because it goes completely against nature. Look at where these snakes are found. They have different needs. They would never be found in the same place or even on the same continent in real life so why breed them. Many of the offspring are not fertile. Of the ones that are, you begin to lose the hybridization the moment you breed it back to another snake. Unless it is bred to another hybrid.

The whole thing seems a little pointless to me when there are hundreds apon hundreds of beautiful and interesting snakes and morphs out there anyway. Yes I think they are beautiful as I do with any snake but they cost way too much money for no good reason and are a huge waste of time IMO.

I think it would be interesting to see what comes of that kind of pairing. I have a male Pastel and a female Red Blood that would be the pairing. Been thinking of it for awhile now.. Here's some pics of them. They were taken back in December

http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/101_1821.jpg

http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/101_1747.jpg

The end result is called a mutt

At any rate, youve still got 2+ years until that female is ready for any breeding, which will give you time to think about it first.

That pastel would be better suited for a female pastel, or spider, IMO. Pure bloods are way more beautiful than any hybrid, again just my opinion. If I were you I'd get a nice red blood male for your female.

With hybrids, i stand on the side that puts health of the animal first. As long as the animal is in good health and has no mutations that cause pain/discomfort or compromise the animal in anyway, then i have no problem with it.

That being said, breeding two different species should only be done by experts or people with wealth of knowledge of the two species. Female bloods are large and male bps are relatively small. Your female blood could get sick of a pestering male bp and injure or kill him.

While I am not a big hybrid fan, I must say that they do look interesting. I just do not see the need in breeding them back to either parent species and making 75%ers.

That being said, if you breed a pastel ball to a red blood, you will wind up mutts but roughly half will carry the pastel gene.

I saw lots of pics of the burm ball but never once came up with a pic of an albino could you pull up this information again?Also morphs come from breeding stuff like rat snakes x corn snakes because the two snakes are very closely related.When your dealing with a blood python python curtus, and a ball python python regius they are not as closely related meaning that any genetic traits will not be passed onto the offspring.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Im no scientist so thats about as simple as I can put it. You wonder why people are against it? Well look at boa breeders. There are so many different and beautiful localities. Some are endangered and even considered extinct in the wild. The Sabogae boa has not been found on the islands in years. It has been extensivly searched for but its gone. The only remaining population is thought to be whats owned by private owners and breeders. These breeders are trying to preserve this extremely rare bloodline. Im sure many would be very disappointed if it was ever mixed with some other boa.

People are also against it because it goes completely against nature. Look at where these snakes are found. They have different needs. They would never be found in the same place or even on the same continent in real life so why breed them. Many of the offspring are not fertile. Of the ones that are, you begin to lose the hybridization the moment you breed it back to another snake. Unless it is bred to another hybrid.

The whole thing seems a little pointless to me when there are hundreds apon hundreds of beautiful and interesting snakes and morphs out there anyway. Yes I think they are beautiful as I do with any snake but they cost way too much money for no good reason and are a huge waste of time IMO.

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I'm sorry but I'm a bit confused to why you have explained it to me why people are against Hybrids, I didn't ask if they were or if they weren't each to their own at the end of the day. All that matter is as long as the reptile is healthy be it a Hybrid or Pure locality, I personally don't mind Hybrids as long as they are advertised being Hybrids and that way its not affecting the gene pool.

I do how ever understand why people are against it because there are people out there which wouldn't make others aware that they are hybrids, I have seen it numerous times with corn snakes and also in the invert world hybridizing spiders is a BIG NO NO which I completely understand.

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Originally Posted by jere000

I saw lots of pics of the burm ball but never once came up with a pic of an albino could you pull up this information again?Also morphs come from breeding stuff like rat snakes x corn snakes because the two snakes are very closely related.When your dealing with a blood python python curtus, and a ball python python regius they are not as closely related meaning that any genetic traits will not be passed onto the offspring.

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Jere, A simple google search would be appreciated there is a thread on this forum regarding the BurmBall which does show photographs of the Albino BurmBall but to save you looking here's a couple of photographs to show the BurmBall,

http://www.schlangenfrank.de/bilder/...5.07%20002.jpg

http://www.schlangenfrank.de/bilder/...5.07%20007.jpg

http://www.schlangenfrank.de/bilder/...5.07%20005.jpg

http://www.schlangenfrank.de/bilder/...5.07%20003.jpg

Others can also be found here

http://www.schlangenfrank.de/bilder/diashow/index.htm

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I too like the looks of the superballs but the genetics that control a morphs color would not be passed to a hybrid.

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Not true.

Kevin @ NERD has bred Spider Ball x Angolan Python and although they didn't hatch when he cut open the egg he definitely had Spider Angolans in the egg. If you look up his first Reptile Radio interview he talks about it there.

i really want to see angolan pythons bred with balls. they are very closely related but have some crazy patterns. now with everything calming down over there, i bet angolans are going to explode in the next 5 yrs. if i were a breeder thats where my money would be going

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

i really want to see angolan pythons bred with balls. they are very closely related but have some crazy patterns. now with everything calming down over there, i bet angolans are going to explode in the next 5 yrs. if i were a breeder thats where my money would be going

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This has been done before. I have seen an F2 axanthic ball x Angolan about 5 years ago. Being that these two pythons are so similar, crossing them gives cause for misrepresentation down the line.

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Originally Posted by jere000

Also morphs come from breeding stuff like rat snakes x corn snakes because the two snakes are very closely related.

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Not true. Morphs are color or pattern anomalies within a species.
Crossing snakes only creates hybrids, or in the case of closely related species, intergrades.

The Jaguar carpet python gene crosses over quite well, at least it did to green tree pythons. Only thing is, what does a pastel red blood look like compared to a normal ball red blood. There seems to be huge variation in hybrid offspring, I'm not sure you would be able to safely say this one has pastel and this one doesn't. I think you would need a slightly more prominent looking morph, pastel just might not cut it for this. Best of luck, I look forward to seeing this cross myself. ~Caylan.S~

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

i really want to see angolan pythons bred with balls. they are very closely related but have some crazy patterns. now with everything calming down over there, i bet angolans are going to explode in the next 5 yrs. if i were a breeder thats where my money would be going

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http://www.roussisreptiles.com/photogallery.html

Go to "Ball Pythons" and click on "Angolan Ball".

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Originally Posted by Tempestas

Can I just ask if the Genetics can not be passed onto Hybrids with Morphs then how come when the BurmBall was created they had an albino in the clutch ?

Also look at other hybrids corns X rat snakes granted they are closely related but still a Hybrid.

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Burmball was a double sired clutch. A female albino burm was bred by a male albino burm and a male normal ball python. The albino babies were all from the male burm, the "normal" burmballs were from the ball python. WHether or not the albino gene was passed from the female to produce "het albino burmballs" is still unknown as the burmballs have not been bred successfully (as far as we, the general public, know).

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Originally Posted by Tempestas

I'm sorry but I'm a bit confused to why you have explained it to me why people are against Hybrids, I didn't ask if they were or if they weren't each to their own at the end of the day. All that matter is as long as the reptile is healthy be it a Hybrid or Pure locality, I personally don't mind Hybrids as long as they are advertised being Hybrids and that way its not affecting the gene pool.

I do how ever understand why people are against it because there are people out there which wouldn't make others aware that they are hybrids, I have seen it numerous times with corn snakes and also in the invert world hybridizing spiders is a BIG NO NO which I completely understand.



Jere, A simple google search would be appreciated there is a thread on this forum regarding the BurmBall which does show photographs of the Albino BurmBall but to save you looking here's a couple of photographs to show the BurmBall,

http://www.schlangenfrank.de/bilder/...5.07%20002.jpg

http://www.schlangenfrank.de/bilder/...5.07%20007.jpg

http://www.schlangenfrank.de/bilder/...5.07%20005.jpg

http://www.schlangenfrank.de/bilder/...5.07%20003.jpg

Others can also be found here

http://www.schlangenfrank.de/bilder/diashow/index.htm

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Read my post above. Those are normal albino burmese pythons.

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Originally Posted by Mike@OutbackReptiles

Burmball was a double sired clutch. A female albino burm was bred by a male albino burm and a male normal ball python. The albino babies were all from the male burm, the "normal" burmballs were from the ball python. WHether or not the albino gene was passed from the female to produce "het albino burmballs" is still unknown as the burmballs have not been bred successfully (as far as we, the general public, know).

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To be honest we have a keeper here in the UK who is breeding their burmball to a pastel royal at the moment and it is looking quite good at the moment. Unless you are the creator of the Burmball then you actually do not know if the albinos are Burmballs or not, I just find it funny how they managed to get a double sired clutch even though it was a worlds first.

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Originally Posted by Mike@OutbackReptiles

Read my post above. Those are normal albino burmese pythons.

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Read my post above.

As I posted before, I'm thinking about this pairing. Not sure if it will happen, PLUS they are both under weight as of now. I understand both sides. But what would this world be with out people who want to try new things or push the limits some? At least I'm not tryin to breed a BP to a Beardie.That would be some Frankenstein stuff right there. lol.. any who thank you all for the info and opinions.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Oroborous

That pastel would be better suited for a female pastel, or spider, IMO. Pure bloods are way more beautiful than any hybrid, again just my opinion. If I were you I'd get a nice red blood male for your female.

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x2

wow angolan pythons look cool.

so similar in appearence. especially the head

jim