*puts on scolding suit* I had done so good with my water monitor...

but i had a TOTAL impulse/cuteness buy today. I was getting feeders for my beardies and my chameleons today and some dude brought in a clutch of freshly hatched Sav's and was trying to sell/give ( i mean literally was asking for $2 an animal for the whole lot) and the owner RELUCTANTLY took them. I was tlaking to the guy after and he had the clutch and was used to breeding Sav's and lost his house and had 2 weeks to get out and was unloading his WHOLE collecction. Snakes, monitors chameleons everything, i almost feel bad he said he has about 35+ herps to unload way to quickly. (infact i might pick up a jacksonii and a carpet from him, but onto the story)

I go back into the store and the owner who knows me pretty well asks me if i want a monitor, and after quickyl dismissing the idea in my head and politely saying no, i cant, i just got a water, wtf am i thinking, i felt myself saying "well idk..." and the owner who knows me pretty well and understood my internal struggle, got me with the, I know that if i put them out there some mom is going to come in and buy one for her kid thinking its like a beardie and then they are up a creek
so ten minutes later i was walking out of the store with a baby Sav that i paid $3 for lol. I know it was a total impulse/bad buy, but i do at least know what im in for and have been done a bunch of monitor research already i think ill be ok.

I have him in a 3 1/2x16x16 with a 110-115* elevated basking spot, 83-87* ambients (hes in a different corner of my room than my water and doesnt get as much cool air) and ~40% humididty. Hes on 50/50 mix of decomposed granite/virgin topsoil mix and has about 4-6" of burrowing depth. I didnt know about how big of a water dish for these guys so his is only about 2" deep. Hes eating medium-large dusted crickets and seems to be pretty chill. Oh and hes about 6" long. While i will admit i pry havent done enugh research, i know that i will within the next day and a half before work/school hits me good agian and i only have enough time for basic interaction with my herps instead of research/play time.

I know, scold me, but damn hes so cute lol

Here is El Greco, me and the fiance tend to name our same species herps after the same things and our other monitor is Monet (her favorite artist) and mine is El Greco, so bam, name time lol

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...4-19020650.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...4-19020623.jpg
http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...4-19020640.jpg

Ugh I have been volunteering with some folks that do reptile shows and they have a juvie sav, and I am doing everything I can to stay the hell out of the local pet store because they just received some hatchling savs, and I am NOT in the mood to hear it from my wife lol.

Amazing living dinosaurs them things are. I love em. I hope he grows into the perfect puppy-lizard for you.

That thing looks like it's on death's door.

I still on the fence about him. Her is eating and drinking as of this morning and looks a lot better than when I brought him home for
$ 3 I wont be all that heart broken if he doesn't make it figure I can atleast give him a chance he powered through about 20 crickets this morning and climbed up on his log and started baking under the heat and uvb so I have my fingerscrossed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JLuck13

I still on the fence about him. Her is eating and drinking as of this morning and looks a lot better than when I brought him home for
$ 3 I wont be all that heart broken if he doesn't make it figure I can atleast give him a chance he powered through about 20 crickets this morning and climbed up on his log and started baking under the heat and uvb so I have my fingerscrossed

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You should be commended for taking it on, but based on my experience with countless situations like this, don't be surprised, as you said, if it tanks.

Just as an aside, hopefully the screen topped aquarium in the photos is not what it's in? The difference between a hatchling making it and not making it is astoundingly dependent on humidity. With a basking light and a screen top, hatchlings are more susceptible to being dried out and "cooked".

Good luck.

When I rescued my Savannah monitor, it looked way worse that that, so I guess you can't always think of the worse either. Good luck to you, hope yours is a fighter too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by allergenic

You should be commended for taking it on, but based on my experience with countless situations like this, don't be surprised, as you said, if it tanks.

Just as an aside, hopefully the screen topped aquarium in the photos is not what it's in? The difference between a hatchling making it and not making it is astoundingly dependent on humidity. With a basking light and a screen top, hatchlings are more susceptible to being dried out and "cooked".

Good luck.

---

If the screen top aquarium is what you are using, you could get plexi glass and zip tie it over the screen and cut out holes for your lights, or just build a new lid out of wood. If you build on though, just make sure you seal it really good so you don't grow mold.

"At death's door" is pretty much the impression I had as well, thin, hip bone poking out, etc.

Good luck with it. You've got to learn to say "no". I am offered all kinds of lovely herps bi-weekly when I go for feeders. Free. Saying no is tough, but ultimately better for the animals I do have.

Chris

keep us updated, i'm interested in it's progress.
good luck!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by allergenic

You should be commended for taking it on, but based on my experience with countless situations like this, don't be surprised, as you said, if it tanks.

Just as an aside, hopefully the screen topped aquarium in the photos is not what it's in? The difference between a hatchling making it and not making it is astoundingly dependent on humidity. With a basking light and a screen top, hatchlings are more susceptible to being dried out and "cooked".

Good luck.

---

that isnt the tank he is in, he is in a tank, but it has a plexiglass top covering close to 75ish%. What would be good humidity for a hatchling?

I had always though that there werent that many CB savs out there?

Good luck on him though, it looks like he needs the help!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Beardedragon

I had always though that there werent that many CB savs out there?

Good luck on him though, it looks like he needs the help!

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I have a friend in FLA that bred her savannahs and just hatched a bunch of fat healthy babies :)

To the OP, pick up a thing of reptical multi vitamins and give your little guy some high grade raw ground beef sprinkled with the multivitamin every day. Take the left over beef out after about an hour and toss it. This is what alot of breeders start hatchlings on and it really helps to beef them up and keep them healthy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I have a friend in FLA that bred her savannahs and just hatched a bunch of fat healthy babies :)

To the OP, pick up a thing of reptical multi vitamins and give your little guy some high grade raw ground beef sprinkled with the multivitamin every day. Take the left over beef out after about an hour and toss it. This is what alot of breeders start hatchlings on and it really helps to beef them up and keep them healthy.

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ok thanks ill give it a try tonight/tomorrow morning. He was eating crickets for me all day (hes up to maybe 20 mediums, given 3-5 at a time)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mumps

"At death's door" is pretty much the impression I had as well, thin, hip bone poking out, etc.

Good luck with it. You've got to learn to say "no". I am offered all kinds of lovely herps bi-weekly when I go for feeders. Free. Saying no is tough, but ultimately better for the animals I do have.

Chris

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i know i need to learn to, and i was a bit confident because i had just got the water and was like sure i can take care of one, i have the room and had the extra cage so i figured id take the rist, a little bad on my part, but itll be a lesson for me lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by capitalB

keep us updated, i'm interested in it's progress.
good luck!!

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will do, thank you :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

To the OP, pick up a thing of reptical multi vitamins and give your little guy some high grade raw ground beef sprinkled with the multivitamin every day. Take the left over beef out after about an hour and toss it. This is what alot of breeders start hatchlings on and it really helps to beef them up and keep them healthy.

---

That is the worst advice I have herd in a while.First off monitor need whole prey items meaning the whole body.Whole crickets,whole roaches,and whole mice.Second Savannas eat mainly insects,so why would you feed it ground beef.Have you ever owned a monitor ?They advice you have given will lead to a dead monitor with in a year.


That monitor dose look on deaths door,it is very dehydrated.You most provide a well sealed cage and give him options of temperature and humidity.give him a good dirt sand mix deep enough for him to burrow in,and give him a basking site of a least 120


Greg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gbassett

That is the worst advice I have herd in a while.First off monitor need whole prey items meaning the whole body.Whole crickets,whole roaches,and whole mice.Second Savannas eat mainly insects,so why would you feed it ground beef.Have you ever owned a monitor ?They advice you have given will lead to a dead monitor with in a year.


That monitor dose look on deaths door,it is very dehydrated.You most provide a well sealed cage and give him options of temperature and humidity.give him a good dirt sand mix deep enough for him to burrow in,and give him a basking site of a least 120


Greg

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This is not long term at all. It gives the extra protein and fat if a baby is thin. It is only meant to be a boost in nutrition. The added vitamins makes up for the lack of calcium and other nutrients from not having an entire body with bones and organs. It will not lead to a dead monitor. No I do not own one but I posted after another member stated that he believed there were not many CB out there, about a friend that just had a very fat and healthy clutch of savs. It is not their first clutch either. I dont claim to be an expert and no I dont own one but this is also advice that some exotics vets would give to boost an undernourished baby. So to the OP, be aware that ground beef is not a long term staple food for sav's but it is known by some people to help with poor nutrition and can be offered as a treat occasionally. Oh and the beef will help with dehydration from the inside as crickets do not contain much water.

Remember that what was wrong yesterday or unknown, may be right and positive info today.

Please read why my recommendation of ground beef is not wrong for sav's..

"For young savannahs I like to use crickets, roaches, pinkie mice,fuzzie mice, meal worms, and ground turkey as a treat. Young savannahs can be feed as much as they will eat as they will grow at a steady rate. The amount they will eat depends on the basking temps and the age of the monitor.
For adults I like to feed crickets or insects until they stop accepting them as they get great exersise chasing them. The adults can be feed ground turkey, mice, rats, insects, and beef heart. I feed my younger savannah hard boiled eggs as a treat and ground turkey as a treat. Beef heart can be used but not as a staple(regular) diet, 1 time a week or so. Adults should be feed as much as they eat in 1 sitting(at a particular time) 2-4 times a week depending on the basking temps and the body weight. If you see the savannah getting fat or a bit chubby cut back on feeding ammount, frequentcy, or both. Some may also take quail and chicks. Make sure not to feed live rodents as they may fight back and feeding live rodents makes the monitor more agressive. NEVER HAND FEED!!! Make sure all feeder insects are gut loaded(recently fed) with a good cricket diet. I prefer Flukers Cricket Diet as it is cheap and works well."

Found this quick care sheet you can take a look at. Most care sheets I can find say almost the same thing. The more varied the diet, the better off they will be.
The entire thing can be found here..

http://www.repticzone.com/caresheets/1081.html

Here is another..

http://www.petreptiles.com/Monitor/monitor-food.php3

And another.. I have found a few that say ground turkey and occasional beef can be fed as a treat. Mazuri brand ground reptile food is also good.

http://lllreptile.com/info/library/a...vanna-monitor/

And FYI, I did just double check with a girl I know that works as a vet tech. I had her ask the Drs there about the beef for underweight babies and she was told that raw ground meats or slightly blanched (slightly boiled) is what they recommend (also pinky mice) because it is highly digestable and full of protein, fat and fluids. I was also told that a mouse pinky can be injected with a small amount of water or pedialite for dehydration if the sav will take a prekilled rodent from you. Thats assuming you have a vet near you that will give you a syringe. Just an idea.

So please keep us updated and let us know how the little guy does.

Alrite guys, thanks for the great feeding debate but i was already planning on trying with a little ground turkey/egg/bone meal every few days to try and get some meat on him. He was soaked twice today (about 30 minuets each time) and he drank HEAVILY from both his water bowl and while he was soaking. He was also checked out by my vet and is parasite free (thank god, but was already expecting it). After an informal count he ate about ~18 medium crickets today and after his first soak/drinking session and about 10 crickets started acting more "monitorish" he began exploring, burrowing climbing and basking. After his second soak he went back to the same thing and is now asleep burrowed under his flat long hide.

His basking spot is on a thermostat and set to ~120* with temps on the "cold side" being an average of 82* in the last 24 hours. Humidity today was 55%+ and the top of his cage is 80% covered with heat tape/foil from the underside to try and keep everything in i can. In the 36 hours i have had him (like its suuuuuch a long time lol) he has perked up a ton, and is acting more like my water. I will keep you guys updated on how everything else goes from here on out. Wish my little guy luck, the odds may be stacked against him, but hes got alot going for him too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Please read why my recommendation of ground beef is not wrong for sav's..

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That's great that's what you do, good luck with your monitor and your vet techs, but most of the stuff you listed, Savannah Monitors flat out don't eat. It's the equivalent of feeding McDonalds to a captive lion or tiger. They will consume that trash if offered but it's not what they eat.

http://savannahmonitor.org/feeding/
http://savannahmonitor.org/feeding/rodents/
http://savannahmonitor.org/feeding/not/

Read up on those links, which incorporate information based on Bennett's 2000 and 2001 studies in Ghana as well as Cisse's 1972 study in Senegal as to what the Savannah Monitor actually eats. I don't know where the idea came from that the garbage you listed was okay to feed an animal that has been proven to eat 100% invertebrates, but it's quite wrong and will lead to health problems.

While the OP is right to not want to start a food fight (heh) in his thread, it's quite important to discuss as V. exanthematicus is one of the only species where juveniles are prone to obesity based on diet. In other species the "feed juveniles as much as they will eat" holds true, but not with the Sav.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

No I do not own one

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I missed this. Unbelievable.

OI.. The arrogence of some people is also unbelievable.. You are both right that this is not a good long term diet for any lizard. I never said it wasnt. Do you think the OP's vet has a sav? So anyone who does not currently own one does not know how to feed them? Once again, the ideas I gave are very short term and to be offered in conjuction with their normal diet. Generally for underweight, malnourished and/or dehydrated animals. Of course we all know it would be best and most natural if we could just get some native african snails, millipedes, orthopterans, beetles, rodents, eggs and other small reptiles to feed them but in this case, that would be a little difficult. In reality, very few (if any) sav owners in the USA feed their pet the "correct" diet.

Sorry for disrupting the OP's thread. You will do whats best for the little guy, just let us know how he's doing in a couple weeks :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

OI.. The arrogence of some people is also unbelievable.. You are both right that this is not a good long term diet for any lizard. I never said it wasnt. Do you think the OP's vet has a sav? So anyone who does not currently own one does not know how to feed them? Once again, the ideas I gave are very short term and to be offered in conjuction with their normal diet. Generally for underweight, malnourished and/or dehydrated animals. Of course we all know it would be best and most natural if we could just get some native african snails, millipedes, orthopterans, beetles, rodents, eggs and other small reptiles to feed them but in this case, that would be a little difficult. In reality, very few (if any) sav owners in the USA feed their pet the "correct" diet.

Sorry for disrupting the OP's thread. You will do whats best for the little guy, just let us know how he's doing in a couple weeks :D

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This is going to come off smarmy - but that's not my intention.

Vets in general know very little about pet nutrition - Science Diet is pimped by Vets across the Country and most actual animal nutritionists deride it as swill - full of fillers and crap.

Exanthematicus should not be fed ground beef, ground turkey or rodents. A SepticZone care sheet and LLL Reptile blurb should not be quoted as reliable sources for animal care of any kind.

Savs are specialized insect and mollusk feeders - and they have adapted dentition, metabolism and digestion as such. There's no need to feed young savs anything but an insectivorious diet.

You're right - very few sav owners feed their animals the correct diet - but that's out of common misconceptions and ignorance than due to a lack of suitable invertebrate prey on the market.

Well Skip, I definately appreciate the fact that you were not rude in any way with your reply. People like you always get a much more attentive group of students when passing on your knowledge. I hope you can understand my reason for giving the advice I did. If it were my baby sav I would want to get some reserves on the little guy fast and I would not want to cause any harm in the process. Having specialized digestive systems I dont think that would happen but when you mention digestive system it makes me wonder if they might get the runs from such an easily digestable meal. I guess thats possible and if I am ever faced with a problem like this I will remember your reply.

So I now have a question. Is there a better alternative if you want to get some reserves on a thin baby fast? What about things like pheonix worms and silks? Very high in nutrients, protein and calcium and one of the very best foods for certain other lizards. Would this work the same way? Or is something with an exoskeleton required? Do they need more keratin?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Well Skip, I definately appreciate the fact that you were not rude in any way with your reply. People like you always get a much more attentive group of students when passing on your knowledge. I hope you can understand my reason for giving the advice I did. If it were my baby sav I would want to get some reserves on the little guy fast and I would not want to cause any harm in the process. Having specialized digestive systems I dont think that would happen but when you mention digestive system it makes me wonder if they might get the runs from such an easily digestable meal. I guess thats possible and if I am ever faced with a problem like this I will remember your reply.

So I now have a question. Is there a better alternative if you want to get some reserves on a thin baby fast? What about things like pheonix worms and silks? Very high in nutrients, protein and calcium and one of the very best foods for certain other lizards. Would this work the same way? Or is something with an exoskeleton required? Do they need more keratin?

---

I think that the advice has been given in this thread by a couple of posters along with an excellent link.

Provide a proper temperature gradient, proper substrate, proper humidity, proper security and a properly sized enclosure. Make sure that any parasite load is dealt with and the animal will thrive.

As for diet, while we don't have access to african invertebrates per se, we can make do from insects available in order to replicate that diet as closely as possible. My savannah monitor was raised on smaller roaches and crickets. As he got larger, we moved up to larger roaches (we're lucky enough to live close enough to Mr. Tuttle of Blaberus.com and were able to get breeding colonies going for our ackies and the sav.

A healthy baby will eat and put on the appropriate amount of weight. The problem with most savs is that they are heavily parasitized and are often fed pinky and other crap from the pet stores or middle men that sell them. Once they are cleaned up, put in the proper environment and fed a proper diet, they don't need to bulked up.

If the baby's origins are legitimate, ie it was captive bred, then it's probably not suffering from anything more serious than a lack of food and water. Since you have provided those, and they were accepted enthusiastically, I would bet he'll be just fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

OI.. The arrogence of some people is also unbelievable..

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Yes, the idea that anyone would give advice on an animal they know nothing about that could very well cause the end of the animal's life is the height of arrogance in my opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

If the baby's origins are legitimate, ie it was captive bred, then it's probably not suffering from anything more serious than a lack of food and water. Since you have provided those, and they were accepted enthusiastically, I would bet he'll be just fine.

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

--Winged Wolf
14.29 BPs, 1.1 BP hatchlings, 1.0 plains garter, 1.2 Lygodactylus williamsi, 1.3.1 Lygodactylus kimhowelli, 1.2.1 Lygodactylus angularis, 1.2 Lygodactylus conradti, 0.3 Lepidodactylus lugubris

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Does anyone on this forum aside from the four of us giving real advice actually own a monitor?

Since this site is mainly geared toward bp owners you may not find lots of experienced monitor keepers. Many of our Veterans here own/have owned them and may not chime in since almost every Monitor thread turns into an argument over husbandry and housing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waltah!

since almost every Monitor thread turns into an argument over husbandry and housing.

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Man I wonder why.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by waltah!

Since this site is mainly geared toward bp owners you may not find lots of experienced monitor keepers. Many of our Veterans here own/have owned them and may not chime in since almost every Monitor thread turns into an argument over husbandry and housing.

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Yes, owners who feel that 1.5 square feet is adequate living space for a 4 foot snake wonder why a 4 foot lizard won't do well in a 75 gallon aquarium...

There are HUGE differences, and the tubs are inadequate as well... but that's me and my opinion. :D

Chris

WOW! Alot of crap info here. Jlucky13, you would be wise to listen to the advice allergenic, mumps, skiploder and gbasset gave you and just ignore the rest. Gotta love the non-varanid keepers handing out advice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I have a friend in FLA that bred her savannahs and just hatched a bunch of fat healthy babies :).

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....................... I call B.S.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

To the OP, pick up a thing of reptical multi vitamins and give your little guy some high grade raw ground beef sprinkled with the multivitamin every day. Take the left over beef out after about an hour and toss it. This is what alot of breeders start hatchlings on and it really helps to beef them up and keep them healthy.

---

....................... Now thats a new one. I suggest you stop handing out advice on caring for varanids if your gonna make clueless statements like that. Someone might actually listen to that hogwash.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slayer

WOW! Alot of crap info here. Jlucky13, you would be wise to listen to the advice allergenic, mumps, skiploder and gbasset gave you and just ignore the rest. Gotta love the non-varanid keepers handing out advice.

....................... I call B.S.

....................... Now thats a new one. I suggest you stop handing out advice on caring for varanids if your gonna make clueless statements like that. Someone might actually listen to that hogwash.

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Thats enough. Do not insult me and call me a liar. Unlike the trolls that sometimes come here, i do not and will not lie. Not in real life, not on the net. Ever. Got that? So stop being such pompous babies about this. Perpetually angry on the defensive people.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...lbumId=1043606

Her name is natalie. I talk to her regularly. I followed the entire breeding process. I should not have to justify myself to the likes of you but I wont allow you to make me look bad. Never call me a liar again.

~To the admins.. Im terribly sorry about that but I just cant allow that type of comment without rebuttle.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Thats enough. Do not insult me and call me a liar. Unlike the trolls that sometimes come here, i do not and will not lie. Not in real life, not on the net. Ever. Got that? So stop being such pompous babies about this. Perpetually angry on the defensive people.

http://viewmorepics.myspace.com/inde...lbumId=1043606

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...................... As Marcello Truzzi said , "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof " and stating you know someone who has captive bred exanthematicus is definetly an extraordinary claim. I pleasantly stand corrected :)
Hopefully your friend gets her husbandry act together before she kills those two off. That setup is horribly inadequate.

Thank you. Its done now. She is working with another breeder in Fla to perfect her breeding skills. Just like everyone who has only just begun.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slayer

Hopefully your friend gets her husbandry act together before she kills those two off. That setup is horribly inadequate.

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What's wrong with that setup? You don't like seeing monitors in snake cages too small for them to turn around in?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by allergenic

What's wrong with that setup? You don't like seeing monitors in snake cages too small for them to turn around in?

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................ Come on allergenic , everyone knows you keep monitors just like colubrid snakes if you want them to live long, healthy lives. You need to get with the program. LOL j/k.

well this sure as heck turned into a run away thread. El Greco has made a pretty decent turn around. He is drinking non stop, loves being misted and seems to be pretty friendly. He hides a decent ammount, but likes to be out and bask and dig. He ate about 10 crickets yesterday and had some turkey/multivitamin/bonemeal mush this morning. I know its not the greatest for him, but after sifting through a bunch of this thread and doing alot of reading else where, im using it soley to put a bit of meat on him. He will get it twice a week along with worms, crickets and eventually roaches.

ill keep everybody updated, but lets try and keep this civil lol. If anyone has questions about him feel free to PM me, but i doubt im going to be checking back into the arguement/food fight of a thread.

Thanks to the people that actually helped, im sure i dont need to name the names, yall know who you are

Check this out Jluck13
http://savannahmonitor.org/feeding/sdz/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slayer

Check this out Jluck13
http://savannahmonitor.org/feeding/sdz/

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Ahh, Jeff's SDZ. I've used it in a pinch (be sure to replicate exactly, as stated) and never had any bad results.

Chris

yeah i stumbled across that website and was planning on using those mixtures, though making it in a bit of a smaller portion lol

ok i know i said i was done with this thread, but here are some updated pictures, a week (give or take) later. I think he looks a ton better, he is drinking and eating regularly and i just got done soaking him and was getting redy to feed him. I know the fight for this guy isnt over, but its alot better than when i got him. Unlike the first set of pictures he is no longer just laying in my hand and playing dead, he likes to crawl around on my hang on my shirt and has burrowed himself a nice little cave in his tank. He hides in it most of the day ambients are in the mid 80s and the sand temp where his burrow is is in the low 90s, but when i open the top up he pokes his little head out and just watches me. He seems to trust me alot more than my water, he is a big turd lol

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...k/5a0adf7a.jpg

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s...k/f4e12c70.jpg

sorry for the crappy pics, its from my phone and he def wasnt cooperating lol

i have had a sav, since a baby, and he is 3 foot somthing, live by sav.monitor.org, also start building your ADULT cage NOW, not later NOW, also start ording crix and super online, if your not all ready, Allergincs post are correct,, Mumps as well, but as said not a lot of people actually own monitors, well that i've seen posted on the monitor forum, if by some chance they, do they probelly dont live long, Monitors, are great, if you have time, space, MONEY, also jjust to say it for the 100000000000 time, you cant TAME, a moniter, sorry to sound angry, just want you to know what your getting into

actually do you have post of your set-up, would love to see pix.