Lost my first litter... :(

I know it's not uncommon for first time mouse mom's to eat their first litter...but still bummed out none-the-less! My other female is getting ready to pop any day now and I'm pretty much expecting the same result (also a first time mom)...here's hoping that I'll have better luck about three weeks from now!

Sorry to hear that dude. I have a mother about to pop in a few days here also. I am expecting her to eat at least a few if not all the babies from the first litter.

Hopefully next litter you will get to keep some.

if you have other reptiles or smaller snakes that will eat pinkys, i would take all babies from first time moms and feed right away or freez them for later. i know it sucks cuz you want the bigger ones for you bigger snakes but theres like a 65% first time mommas are gonna eat there young so it wont be a total loss if you take them before they get eaten then when shes prego the 2nd time let her raise up the babies. worked for me anyways

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Originally Posted by reptileguy

if you have other reptiles or smaller snakes that will eat pinkys, i would take all babies from first time moms and feed right away or freez them for later. i know it sucks cuz you want the bigger ones for you bigger snakes but theres like a 65% first time mommas are gonna eat there young so it wont be a total loss if you take them before they get eaten then when shes prego the 2nd time let her raise up the babies. worked for me anyways

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good idea. how do you freeze mice anyway? What do you wrap them in to keep them from getting freezer burn? Also, how cold should I set my freezer? I am probably going to do this for when I get a corn snake.

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Originally Posted by reptileguy

if you have other reptiles or smaller snakes that will eat pinkys, i would take all babies from first time moms and feed right away or freez them for later. i know it sucks cuz you want the bigger ones for you bigger snakes but theres like a 65% first time mommas are gonna eat there young so it wont be a total loss if you take them before they get eaten then when shes prego the 2nd time let her raise up the babies. worked for me anyways

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:clap: I second that notion.

You guys really lose that many first litters? Except for when I first started I haven't really had that issue. I don't breed until they are 12 weeks though.

theres 2 ways ive done it. one ( the most humane way) is to use co2 chamber . if you paintball the co2 canaster works perfect just put pinkys into a tupperware container and give a 2 sec shot of co2 into the container and put the lid on ( dont worry co2 is heavyier than air so it wont escape if your slow to cover with the lid) in about 10 sec the pinkys are peacfuly asleep and then put them into a ziplock freezer bag. second way to do it is skip part one lol put them into a ziplock bag and toss them into the freezer ( set it and forget it lol) pinkys will last a couple months in freezer without freezer burns the best way to store them is to put them in the bag then get your vaccuum and the attachment the is used for small thin areas ( looks kinda like a long knife lol) put the tip of that into the bag about 2inches and turn on vac for 2 secs and it will vaccum seal it. make sure to keep a tight seal on the bag when sliding the vaccum back out of it. it will store for 6months-2 years like this. hope it helps.

i only have that problem every 5 new mommas or so lol but it does still happen

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Originally Posted by reptileguy

theres 2 ways ive done it. one ( the most humane way) is to use co2 chamber . if you paintball the co2 canaster works perfect just put pinkys into a tupperware container and give a 2 sec shot of co2 into the container and put the lid on ( dont worry co2 is heavyier than air so it wont escape if your slow to cover with the lid) in about 10 sec the pinkys are peacfuly asleep and then put them into a ziplock freezer bag. second way to do it is skip part one lol put them into a ziplock bag and toss them into the freezer ( set it and forget it lol) pinkys will last a couple months in freezer without freezer burns the best way to store them is to put them in the bag then get your vaccuum and the attachment the is used for small thin areas ( looks kinda like a long knife lol) put the tip of that into the bag about 2inches and turn on vac for 2 secs and it will vaccum seal it. make sure to keep a tight seal on the bag when sliding the vaccum back out of it. it will store for 6months-2 years like this. hope it helps.

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lol I used to paintball until I realised how stupid it was to spend so much money on fake guns and $60-$100 on 2000 balls of paint, when you can buy a real gun that shoots real bullets for way cheaper.

But option #2 made me lol (just throw them in the freezer alive)

Is that really an option? I mean, will the pinky feel pain or be unconcious before it starts to feel pain? I wouldn't want to torture it.

Odd. I've never lost a litter from first time moms eating their babies. I've lost them from the other mothers eating the pups.

im not 100% sure how much pain they feel when they are only a few days old ( not sure how well developed there nervous system is yet) but it would be the longest time form of euthinization if you think about it, it takes like 3 hours to freeze ice cubes so its at least the same amount of time to freeze them solid. if you use the vaccum they would run out of air very fast . if you dont have co2 then the vaccum would be the next humane way lol. you could wack them in the skull to instant kill they dont feel that but its if your up to it

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Originally Posted by reptileguy

im not 100% sure how much pain they feel when they are only a few days old ( not sure how well developed there nervous system is yet) but it would be the longest time form of euthinization if you think about it, it takes like 3 hours to freeze ice cubes so its at least the same amount of time to freeze them solid. if you use the vaccum they would run out of air very fast . if you dont have co2 then the vaccum would be the next humane way lol. you could wack them in the skull to instant kill they dont feel that but its if your up to it

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Freezing pinkies, from my understanding, it a very quick way to kill them. They have no hair and can't regulate their body temperature. They will actually die on their own from exposure if they don't have the warm bodies of siblings/mom to keep them warm. The freezer speeds up this process and they're dead long before they freeze. Adults, however are different and for them, freezing isn't an option.

CO2 isn't as effective on pinkies. They will die from it, but rather slowly, so it is debatable how humane it is. My understanding is they naturally have a high CO2 tolerance, to prevent them from suffocating while mom and litter mates pile up on top of them.

As Raptor said, pinkies die very quickly if you put them in the freezer, probably long before the painful ice crystals begin to form. That is probably the best way to kill pinkies to use as feeders.

Older babies and adults should NEVER be put directly into the freezer. They need to be CO2ed first.

Thanks for all the tips, guys! Unfortunately, I just have BPs...so not much need for pinkies...unless they'll eat them despite the pinkie's tiny size...i'd rather see the BPs eat them than the mice!

And I suspect the moms are just too darn young...wasn't sure about their age as I'd gotten them from a pet store...so for future reference I'll wait until they're at least 12 weeks old next time! Everything else, husbandry-wise, seems to be in check...they're in lab-style enclosures with pine pellet bedding, a little aspen, some toilet paper tubes, a couple of hides...I feed them mazuri 6f but am wondering if I should supplement with something high in fat and protein?

Ah, well....like I said, not surprised but still disappointed! Looks like the other mom will deliver sometime in the next couple of days. I'll keep my fingers crossed!

Well, good news! The second mom had her pups last night...and they're still alive! :) I walked into the room to check on them and immediately heard an unfamiliar "peeping" sound...hurray! I could see a couple of them through the top of the hide...so cute! Mom is doing well and nursing away...I'm wondering if she is just a bit older then the 1st mom.

On a sidenote, I noticed that the 2nd mom's pups are a little larger than the 1st mom's...so I'm wondering if her pups were premature or even already deceased when they were born?

Anyway, very excited! Now I just have to get over the hurdle of getting attached to this first group...they do have a purpose! ;)

Jen