ALWAYS have a professional double check your snake sex IDing!!

As you can tell by the title...I've had some issues with incorrectly sexed snakes. To be specific, my Lavender corn snake that I just sold as a female which turned out to be a male!! The buyer confirmed this by placing 'her' with a proven female and getting pictures of the copulation! :mad:

I know nothing about sexing snakes, and got that lavender at a reptile expo from a breeder said to be 'very good'. He had the snake marked as female and even told me that he had put it with his male a few times, but got no eggs (well now we know why not). A friend of mine even tried to pop 'her' and saw nothing, so they proclaimed it female as the breeder said. I had no reason to doubt, so I sold the snake as a female. I hate having a 'black mark' on my selling record, as it were.

What this tells us is to ALWAYS have a professional breeder or vet, someone proven and experienced, check our snakes sexes! To this end, I am going to be searching the Seattle area for just such a person who might double check my 7 snakes (two of which I wish to sell) for little money or free, since I still don't have a job/income. I will be having them all checked, even though my albino male was bought from a trusted breeder who saw him produce plugs, and my female pastel was also from a trusted breeder. I don't want to get burned again...

No kidding, Its a real shame to get a mixed up gender, especially when you may be paying top dollar for an animal you may have breeding plans for.

I'd love to see some sort of educational seminars at expos on this topic. It would benefit us all to have experienced breeders show newer hobbiests how to pop and probe safely to avoid situations like yours and to make sure no snakes get hurt by the process!

In my experience, popping adult corns just can't be done. With adult balls it's not a problem, but with a corn nada. Maybe others can.. but it's just impossible for me.

I have mis sexed a sub adult male ball python as a female before. That is why I always probe now to double check popping. But, even that can be misleading. I just purchased a group of adult female balls. One of them is over 2500 grams and probes male. If it is a male it is the biggest one I have ever seen.

I am keeping it an putting it with my spider next year (they won't be out of quarentine in time for this year) just to double check. Hopefully it is a female that has been "popped".

even pro's make mistakes.. ;)

mistakes happen nobody is perfect. I had bought a 1300 gram male from a local breeder which turned out to be a 1300 gram female. It sucks but now i have another het pied female to put with my pied male once he has grown a bit. lol. Deff triple check before hand if u can. Its one of those things that will happen at some point or another if you dont check yourself or have someone on hand that can actually sex the snake. Just like we have to deal with males and females off feed in the winter this is one of things we have to deal with as well.

I agree. I have lost trust in almost everyone selling a snake who claims a sex.
I bought a big 1500gram female bp to start breeding..........male. After weeks of no locking, I brought it to a breeder to probe, and what d'ya know. I wasted my money. Reselling this guy has been a pain too.
I would love to learn to probe. If they had a probing seminar at a show I would for sure pay 10 bucks or something to learn how to do it myself.

Ouch sorry that happened.One thing about sexing corns(its not 100% though) you can look at how the tail tapers after the vent.The females taper sooner BUT its still best to double check them by probing ;)

This is why I pop my snakes several times before selling them. Some will do it once and that's it what they get the first time is the sex they mark it as. I agree though never trust anyone and always check new snakes or have them checked by somebody who knows how to.

Here is the vet i go to when I use a vet...


http://www.birdandexotic.com/

shes in Seattle, and Tracy B. is SUPER awesome.

i bought my first "female" ball python years ago but...vet said it was a male. so what i named as deirdre [deer-dra] ...poor thing died before i could re-name it.

I always ask them to pop in front of me and then I will ask another vendor to pop it! Unless you see hemipenes then you know for sure but with females, double check!

Same with Kings - I had Sean Bradley check mine for me, after my purchase and he confirmed that I had what I purchased. I don't even know if I'll breed them or not - but it's good to know for "sure".

I am confident in my abilities to sex ball pythons correctly, however. I also pop multiple times before selling an animal.

I've been sold a male as a female when I was relatively new to ball pythons - but the seller realized their mistake a few days later (I purchased several animals at one time) and they allowed me to keep the male and select another female. That's actually how I first came to meet Justin Kobylka - he's local to me, and I had him sex all the kiddos I received (some CH females in 2006), and he confirmed the "female" was a male.

Made me very sad too - "she" was hot - but HE'S now in Shaun Pruitt's collection - and still a very hot snake!

when i purchase, i pop them myself or have the vendor pop the animal in front of me. For certain things if i want a male or a female then thats the sex i need, for others, i dont care i just want to know what kind of name to give it. Upon getting home I do continue to pop my snakes. Some are too large for me to do it now but I need to get a set of probes anyway.

If it pops male then it is a male but if it pops female I probe it. Than is how I am always 100% sure as to what I have. It doesn't matter if I purchase the snake or if I am selling it I know 100% fact if it is male or female.

Early on, I once shipped a pastel female to a customer who had purchased a male. This is back when pastels were EXPENSIVE and the females were WAY more expensive than males... He decided he'd rather have the female when I called him, so it was my loss. :)

Justin

ok around this time last year i bought a spider pastel and black pastel, my first soon to be breeding project, i was going to make up bees with the spider and pastel, spider was supoosed to be female and pastel male. well about a week ago i got in my own probe kit from ebay its just a small one, pulled out the black pastel (at this time unknown sex) comes out boy, then the pastel thats supposed to be a male, checks out, now time for the spider..................................bout lost the damn probe up in HIM!!!!!!!!!!:taz:

so now im just picking up normal females and pastels left and right:gj:

so yea learn to do it your self and double check and the right probe makes all the difference, its not that hard anyway just be carefull, watch people do it and you should get it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moravaguy

ok around this time last year i bought a spider pastel and black pastel, my first soon to be breeding project, i was going to make up bees with the spider and pastel, spider was supoosed to be female and pastel male. well about a week ago i got in my own probe kit from ebay its just a small one, pulled out the black pastel (at this time unknown sex) comes out boy, then the pastel thats supposed to be a male, checks out, now time for the spider..................................bout lost the damn probe up in HIM!!!!!!!!!!:taz:

so now im just picking up normal females and pastels left and right:gj:

so yea learn to do it your self and double check and the right probe makes all the difference, its not that hard anyway just be carefull, watch people do it and you should get it.

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Did you probe both sides of the spider? Sometimes, someone inexperienced with probing can actually injure the female and it will go deep like a male. If the other side only probes shallow, then it may still be a female. Probe very gently and as soon as you meet resistance, stop.

I bought a male ghost "proven breeder" turned into a female. It sucks but it happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Did you probe both sides of the spider? Sometimes, someone inexperienced with probing can actually injure the female and it will go deep like a male. If the other side only probes shallow, then it may still be a female. Probe very gently and as soon as you meet resistance, stop.

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um...........are you saying i dont know what im doing? i did not ram the probe in there hot shot, it fell in there and yes both sides i know what im doing..........so please do you ever doubt me again:gj: just cuz my profile says i just joined dont mean i just started collecting balls.

I mis-sexed a male Ball Python this year that I sold for just under 10k. The buyer (who has probably produced more Ball Pythons than everyone in this thread combined) also mis-sexed it when I handed it to him in person. A few months later I get the call that he popped and then probed it and that it was a female. He did this multiple times to ensure that no mistakes were made again! I had to dig up a bunch of cash and buy it back since he was not looking for females at all. Bummer!:(
My point is, that it can happen to anyone.

good point

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moravaguy

um...........are you saying i dont know what im doing? i did not ram the probe in there hot shot, it fell in there and yes both sides i know what im doing..........so please do you ever doubt me again:gj: just cuz my profile says i just joined dont mean i just started collecting balls.

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Um.......did I say that YOU were the one that rammed the probe in there "hot shot"?

No - I said that sometimes when someone doesn't know what they are doing (that someone being someone BEFORE you got the snake) they could injure the snake.

Calm down Skippy. Sometimes when you presume you know what someone meant, you put your foot in your mouth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Um.......did I say that YOU were the one that rammed the probe in there "hot shot"?

No - I said that sometimes when someone doesn't know what they are doing (that someone being someone BEFORE you got the snake) they could injure the snake.

Calm down Skippy. Sometimes when you presume you know what someone meant, you put your foot in your mouth.

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um....you quote me and then talk about how people are messin up..............THATS TALKING ABOUT ME..........dont qoute unless you ready to be questioned about why you would qoute.....hot shot...and my snake arent injured, they are all healthy. i know whats what....btw when you do that to people later on they may get a bad wrap because YOU decided to qoute somebody how about next time just REPLY.......:taz:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moravaguy

um....you quote me and then talk about how people are messin up..............THATS TALKING ABOUT ME..........dont qoute unless you ready to be questioned about why you would qoute.....hot shot...and my snake arent injured, they are all healthy. i know whats what....btw when you do that to people later on they may get a bad wrap because YOU decided to qoute somebody how about next time just REPLY.......:taz:

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Of course I quoted you - to ask you whether you had probed the other side.

Many, many people don't - and assume that they have a male without checking the other side.

In no way did I state NOR infer that YOU injured your snake. Your interpretation and hurt feelings are entirely on you - not on me.

Your reaction to my reply and having a hissy fit about it will hurt your reputation (or rap), not my simple question as to whether you probed the other side. :rolleyes:

I was simply sharing information that not everyone knows - to always probe both sides to be sure. Next time someone tries to help you - don't bite their head off - they may not be so quick to try to help you in the future.

Have a great day!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

even pro's make mistakes.. ;)

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Never.:rolleyes::D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Python Dreams

I mis-sexed a male Ball Python this year that I sold for just under 10k. The buyer (who has probably produced more Ball Pythons than everyone in this thread combined) also mis-sexed it when I handed it to him in person. A few months later I get the call that he popped and then probed it and that it was a female. He did this multiple times to ensure that no mistakes were made again! I had to dig up a bunch of cash and buy it back since he was not looking for females at all. Bummer!:(
My point is, that it can happen to anyone.

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****BG clears throat in massive muscular neck******

You'll need to edit that comment about "everyone in the thread" now.

Yes everyone. Mistakes can be made by the best of us. Some animals are "tweeners" that are harder to tell sometimes. The breeder is not always ripping you off. If it's a larger breeder, it's usually is an honest mistake.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Did you probe both sides of the spider? Sometimes, someone inexperienced with probing can actually injure the female and it will go deep like a male. If the other side only probes shallow, then it may still be a female. Probe very gently and as soon as you meet resistance, stop.

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i see what your saying now but right there it says "did YOU probe both sides of the spider? Sometimes, someone inexperienced with probing can actually injure the female and it will go deep like a male"...............um that word you means me in that one so u was saying it to me and also say i might have injured him........and i repeat watch who you quote and if not watch all the yous you use or maybe just reply consitering this thread here is about probing in general, people need to learn when to quote :taz:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moravaguy

i see what your saying now but right there it says "did YOU probe both sides of the spider? Sometimes, someone inexperienced with probing can actually injure the female and it will go deep like a male"...............um that word you means me in that one so u was saying it to me and also say i might have injured him........and i repeat watch who you quote and if not watch all the yous you use or maybe just reply consitering this thread here is about probing in general, people need to learn when to quote :taz:

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Thanks for the "lesson" on quoting, but I will continue to quote the person I'm addressing, as that's the purpose for quoting, so that folks know WHO you're replying to. :gj:
:taz::taz:

so what your trying to say is that the person befor me could have pushed the probe so hard that it made my female a male????? has anyone ever heard of that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moravaguy

so what your trying to say is that the person befor me could have pushed the probe so hard that it made my female a male????? has anyone ever heard of that?

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Yes that's what I was trying to say - and yes I've heard of it happening. And no - it doesn't "make" a female a male, it can puncture the female so that the probe probes deep - she'd still be a female.

But since "most" people only probe one side, it's not likely to be injured on both sides. That's why you always double check the other side when you "think" you have a female but it probes male.

well im looking for info to back this up ive been in this a while and never heard of it...i mean think about it almost a year went buy wouldnt of some scar tissue stopped my probe?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moravaguy

well im looking for info to back this up ive been in this a while and never heard of it...i mean think about it almost a year went buy wouldnt of some scar tissue stopped my probe?

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Sigh....I'm bowing out - I'll let others "back this up".

Dude...chill out please. I don't want this thread turning into a 'you said' debate. She wasn't Directly saying that YOU injured your snake... she was just mentioning that she had heard of it happening. Please drop it and let the comments on sexing flow as they should. :)

Now then, I do feel a bit better hearing that mistakes can always be made even by the big guys. However, I still feel nervous about all my other snakes, especially the two I still want to sell.

Does anyone know of, or might they be, someone in the southern Seattle area who could probe my corns and BPs for me either free or very cheap? I have someone who put a down payment on my pastel BP female, and I want to make sure it's a female they'd be getting. Not to mention that I want to make sure of sexes before I get all ready to breed these guys. :)
Thanks, and keep the comments going.

im sorry, im just so used to people bashing on here, and if you read it does seem that way, but again im sorry

Hi,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moravaguy

well im looking for info to back this up ive been in this a while and never heard of it...i mean think about it almost a year went buy wouldnt of some scar tissue stopped my probe?

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Just to say not only have I heard of this I had the cringe worthy experience of watching someone do it to their snake while learning to probe. :(

Granted in his case it was because the snake wasn't being held correctly and jerked its tail towards him quicker than he managed to let go of the probe but seeing it actually slide down towards the tail tip under the skin was not a pleasant experience for us never mind the poor snake.

It's hard to teach someone how gentle they have to be with small snakes - especially if they are using a probe set that doesn't have ball tips.

You can still do it with the ball tips but it is a lot less likely because of the extra force needed to actually rupture the membrane.

I'm not sure how it heals as I have never probed a snake that has had this done to them - maybe someone else can chime in with this?

And just to say (quoting from your own post )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moravaguy

"did YOU probe both sides of the spider?

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This is a sentence where Rabernet is specifically asking you a question about what you did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moravaguy

Sometimes, someone inexperienced with probing can actually injure the female and it will go deep like a male"

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This is a completely different sentence explaining why you were asked the question and in no way shape or form accusing you of anything - hence the use of the word "someone"

I'm sorry but you simply misunderstood what she said.

Rabernet in no way deserved your reply but I am glad things are settled now anyway.

Sorry for drifting offtrack Argentra. :hug:


dr del

like i said im sorry for jumping but anyway did it bleed and stuff when the probe went in like that?

Hi,

No there was no sign of anything wrong aside from us seeing the probe go waaaaay past where even a male would have reached the bottom of the pocket.

The probe came out clean and the snake seemed fine afterwards. We told him to keep it on papertowels for a week and he never told us he saw anything out of the ordinary at all.

It still makes me nervous when probing hatchlings though as I obviously have to use a thinner probe. If I could just learn to pop older snakes reliably I'd be happy to stop probing to confirm for the hatchlings altogether. :rolleyes:


dr del

does she breed?

Sadly I am no longer in touch with him so cannot say.

I can't see any reason why she wouldn't though.

If it had been a male it might have damaged a hemi-pene but there are some males out there who lost one side through prolapse etc that are still breeding for people. I don't know if peircing both sides would put the male out of commision but you'd hope it could heal from a small rupture like that eventually. :weirdface

The important parts of the female are all in the opposite direction as far as I can tell so it should affect them even less I think.

For the female I'd guess the only time it should have serious consequences is if infection set in? But that's just a guess as I say.


dr del

well hopefully someone will know

I have a probe set, but I've just never used them for ball pythons...once I learned how to pop them properly, it just didn't seem necessary.

I have had at least one hatchling with smaller 'bits' that it took me 3 or 4 checks to confirm the gender on, but I check them all numerous times before they go out, to be sure.
I haven't had any issues popping older snakes, either--in some cases it's actually easier.

Hey guys,

I am getting a 3 week old Ball Python female on the 22nd - 25th.

The breeder (which is a small store) says it is a female

He is the boss of the store so I am inclined to take his word. The baby ball is coming from thier farm, he asked me if i wanted male or female, i chose female cuz I want a bigger snake.

I was wondering if it would be wise for a first time BP owner to try to pop it? I watched a video on it and have a very good idea of how to do it

YouTube - Pro Tips #9 - Sexing your Ball Python

I also am very shy in person, well.. sometimes.. and this would be one of those times... I dont really want to ask him to pop it infront of me. He is giving me a good deal on it and an aquarium and UTH...

I dont wanna look like I dont trust him or something


any advice on what I should do? :confused:

ask the person to do it in front of you because you want to see how its done :gj:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moravaguy

ask the person to do it in front of you because you want to see how its done :gj:

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I dunno lol, I am really shy about asking that, even if its for conformation. Im turning 17 and my mother will be there, its gonna be awkward as heck.. lol

I guess I'll ask him to do it, if i can get the courage while im there lol


*sigh* I hate when im shy, its so annoying

ask him like you want to learn how to do it yourself not to check his word

Quote:

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Originally Posted by moravaguy

ask him like you want to learn how to do it yourself not to check his word

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Yeah I see what you mean, But wont he suspect something? Cuz ive already told him im not going to be breeding so he may just be like... "lolwut.."

Ill try to ask him :) Im so shy, I lied before, im not shy sometimes, im shy always LOL

hopefully I can get the courage to ask him to show me, "how to do it" lol!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeV

Yeah I see what you mean, But wont he suspect something? Cuz ive already told him im not going to be breeding so he may just be like... "lolwut.."

Ill try to ask him :) Im so shy, I lied before, im not shy sometimes, im shy always LOL

hopefully I can get the courage to ask him to show me, "how to do it" lol!

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You can say its because you want to know what name to give the snake. reptile people do it all the time, its really not a big deal. I pop or probe (if i'm able) anything I'm selling or trading unless the buyer doesn't care about sex. (and even then i usually still know since I've had the animal). I ALWAYS ask the seller to pop for me, and then I'll often pop it myself in front of the seller.

I have yet to get an "inbetween" animal, with mine there are either hemipenes, or not. (or with the geckos, BIG bulges , or not lol)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cinderbird

You can say its because you want to know what name to give the snake. reptile people do it all the time, its really not a big deal. I pop or probe (if i'm able) anything I'm selling or trading unless the buyer doesn't care about sex. (and even then i usually still know since I've had the animal). I ALWAYS ask the seller to pop for me, and then I'll often pop it myself in front of the seller.

I have yet to get an "inbetween" animal, with mine there are either hemipenes, or not. (or with the geckos, BIG bulges , or not lol)

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kinda late for that :( already told him I want a female lol

oh well, to be honest I think im just gonna take his word on this one. I trust him a lot, hes agreat breeder, and maybe some day ill have it checked out by a vet or something, but im not gonna be breeding so it doesnt matter to much :)

I changed the labels from female to male on two boxes this year.

I think I've gotten pretty good at popping well hydrated babies right out of the egg (they practically pop themselves while I wash the slime off, gently in slightly warm water). Of course now I'm getting to the age where I'm going to start needing reading glasses to see what popped out.

But I've never owned a probe set or felt confident pushing hard enough to pop older males. I got both of these animals as well started and one was even ID'd as female by a breeder with decades of experience. But when I tried to breed them to my male mojave combat told me they where males and once I started putting them with actual females both proved to be great breeders. The sucky part is I could have bred both of these dinkers years ago if I had known they where male instead of fighting to try to get them up to female breeder weight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MikeV

Yeah I see what you mean, But wont he suspect something? Cuz ive already told him im not going to be breeding so he may just be like... "lolwut.."

Ill try to ask him :) Im so shy, I lied before, im not shy sometimes, im shy always LOL

hopefully I can get the courage to ask him to show me, "how to do it" lol!

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Don't worry about hurting his feelings. I don't know of any seller or breeder who would be hurt over double checking the sex for a buyer. If someone was than that is someone I would not want to do business with anyway. If they can't admit a mistake can happen before the sale imagine how helpful they will be after....

Also, unless you know what your looking, you still are trusting the seller when having them sex it in front of you. I can take a male BP, pretend to pop it, and show you it's a female. It's not hard to fake that, and unscrupulous dealers still do it all the time.

Ask him to show you how to pop it. He should point out the whitish colored scent glands on the female at the edges of the cloaca. A male will pop longer red colored hemipenises that will originate more inward of the cloaca.