Anemic while gravid?

A friend is breeding her big female BP for the first time this year, and she's now gone 45 days since her pre-lay shed this year without laying. So today my friend took the BP to the herp vet, who took some blood, looked up/down both ends, and examined the BP's plumbing. The vet said the female is extremely anemic--her mouth was WHITE, for starters, and I think the bloodwork confirmed it? But otherwise, everything seems to be fine. So he sent my friend home and said to give the female another week.

But I confess, I'm worried. Has anyone else had experience with anemia in gravid females? This female hasn't eaten in several months (4?), and I suppose the anemia could be related to that. But, well, is this common? Or is this a indicator of some underlying condition, or an early sign of egg-binding?

At what point should we start all-out panicking?

Hi,

Just asking some questions to help the smart people when they arrive;

did you definately see ovulation? Have you palpated since to see if they follicles are still there or moved down her body?

can we get a pic of her - including one that shows the spine and body shape of her back third? Can we also get one of her tail area to see how close to the vent any eggs are?

What is her behaviour in her enclosure?

Did he confirm it with a blood test?

Roughly what weight is she?

How long did the pre-lay shed take compared to her normal sheds?


dr del

Well, again, it's not my snake, so my friend may correct me, but I do know she missed ovulation. However, follicles were palpated beforehand and eggs afterward--total count is 6 big ones and 2 or so boobs/slugs. The snake has been curled in a neat cinnamon bun on her warm spot for the last several weeks. She was restless two weeks ago, and again two days ago, but basically she has just been hanging out on her warm spot. I don't know her current weight, but her pre-breeding weight was around 2500 grams. The snake is a 2006, and this is her first clutch.

I believe the anemia was confirmed with bloodwork? I'll have to check. And I'll see if I can get my friend's permission to post a pic.

And this is day 46 post-shed.

I don't think 46 days is that extreme of a post-post-ovulation shed period. Just give her some time, she'll drop those pearly whites. I know it must be hard waiting, and I'm sure it's frustrating thinking she's in bad health, but I'd say the more you stress her with vet trips and blood work the longer it will take for her to lay. Now if weeks pass and you have good reason to think she's impacted, well that's another story. I'm pretty sure though I've read of several people having experience with girls going way over 30 days after their post-ovulation shed. Good luck though, I'm sure your patience will be rewarded (your friends more so suppose, haha).

Cheers,
-Matt

Day 48! And we have EGGS.

Aaaaaand relaaaax, :D

Kidding!

I was dancing a round like a mincing marrionette when I found every clutch so far. :rofl:

What was the final count - and what was the pairing again?



dr del

4 so far, but she's still laying.

For the record, my friend was much more relaxed about her snake taking 40+ days to lay than I was! The herp vet said the female's muscle tone was good, so she clearly wasn't wasting away because of impaction. So my friend was happy to keep waiting.

average is 25-40 days but some have experienced a 100 day post ovulation shed. They lay when ready

Good Luck

Looks like 6 eggs! Pairing was a lesser to normal.

...100 days? Seriously? Do these snakes not read the Ball Python Manual?

Congrats on the eggs!

I guess it doesn't answer the question about anemia in gravid females?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loonunit

Looks like 6 eggs! Pairing was a lesser to normal.

...100 days? Seriously? Do these snakes not read the Ball Python Manual?

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Mother Nature has this habit of forgetting to read the rules humans try to make up for her. Or is it the humans that forget we aren't the ones that make the rules? :confused:

anemia is a medical problem that has MANY symptoms that can trigger it..

A snake that has anemia is lacking hemoglobin which is the oxygen carrying protein to the red blood cells.


This is a medical problem the vet needs to look at as theres nothing you can do. If she does get better after laying the eggs, then the eggs were causing her hemoglobin to drop

Quote:

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The cause depends on the type of anemia. Possible causes include:

* Genes -- some forms of anemia can be inherited
* Kidney failure
* Blood loss
* Poor diet
* Pregnancy
* Problems with bone marrow (where blood cells are made)
* Problems with the immune system that cause the destruction of blood cells

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Well, she hasn't eaten in months, so that's probably not helping.

Either way, it's nice that she's finally laid the eggs. Even if the anemia wasn't related, it's one less thing to worry about.

Rich, is that a list of conditions which lead to anemia in humans? ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loonunit

Rich, is that a list of conditions which lead to anemia in humans? ;)

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Yes it is humans related but its the same concept in reptiles, they breath it let in oxygen which is carried to the blood. Same principal.

I edited the list of more possible causes in reptiles as some were more pointed as human problems that couldn't happen to reptiles really.

Lack of hemoglobin is reason why the snakes mouth is white(pale). When the snake is lacking it, the blood isnt getting what it requires. Just keep an eye on it and it may get better after laying the eggs and starts eating again.

Final egg count when my friend got home from work: EIGHT eggs. :weirdface

...I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that an eight egg clutch for a first time mother could easily explain the anemia?

Clutch weight is 650 grams. Female went from 2010 grams to 1330 grams overnight.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by loonunit

Clutch weight is 650 grams. Female went from 2010 grams to 1330 grams overnight.

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I'd like to see the test results before buying the whole anemia diagnosis. Was this a decent herp vet? Are you positive that there was actually a blood sample taken? I would bet most "herp vets" would not have any clue of how to get a blood sample from a snake.

Either way I would not really worry about it. Get her cleaned up, and let her get back to eating. She will be fine.

Dr. Jarchow in Tucson. He's well known, is quoted in the literature, and is the guy who provides vet care for all the local shows. He did have trouble getting a blood sample from this girl. But her mouth was snow white.

To be fair to Dr. Jarchow, based on the rest of exam, he wasn't particularly worried about the snake, either.