Where are all the dead Pythons??????

It would seem to Big Gunns that if 90% of the Pythons froze and died in Florida there would be a lot of dead Python bones around. From experience Big Gunns knows these things just don't disappear into thin air....even if animals do eat them. An 18 foot 20 year old Burm gave BG this "experience".;):D

BG has heard different estimates on the deaths...50..60..90%, but if you take any one of those percentages and realize that 50% of 100,000 is 50 thousand dead Pythons. These bones should not be too hard to find. Hopefully USARK and everyone asks those "experts" where all the bones are. Trust BG...these long skeletons will be around for months and months. Well...if the numbers are correct they will be. They'll probably just try and twist it and say they must still be alive. Funny how the microchipped ones died though.

Well, how much do we know about what these snakes do when they are dying in nature? Do they die in the water? Do they find a deep hole or burrow? Maybe they all just slowed down so much that the crocs got them?
That'd be super cool to find a hug burm skull to bring home and put on the mantle!!!

Another thing to think about, rodent like beavers, porcipines, rats, groundhogs, squirrels, ect are know to chew on antlers and bones when they find them. Even if they didn't chew the entire bone it would still be pretty unreconizible.

Also if a gator or croc ate them (weather they were still alive or already dead) there wouldn't be anything left.

this area is not exactly a walk in the park either. there is dense vegetation all around. i doubt there is anyone even looking for the bodies. im sure there is some protocol going on right now as well where if the bodies are found by park rangers, they are turned into the everglades scientist.

As with all dead animals in the wild, they usually are taken care by the critters that are present. When an animal dies in the wild, the entire wilderness population feasts. Then the microbes get involved and before you know it, there is no sign of that dead animal. Animals as large as deer, elk, and bear are usually eatened within a few days, then the microbes finish the job in less than a week. With these snakes, the feasting would be quick and easy. There would probably be no bones left. The types of animals in the Everglades would tend to account for a really quick meal, not allowing an observer to see much. With the size fo the bones in these snakes, even if the llittle critters were feasting on the snakes, it would be almost impopssible to see any bones laying on the ground or in the water.

As someone else mentioned, many of these snakes probably died in a den or burrow. We will probably never know how many died.

This also happened at a good time for the propagation or lack there of. Many of these snakes would have bred this year. I would think that the larger females couldn't have gotten deep enough to thermoregulate, so my guess is that most of the snakes that died were females. At least the larger breeders.

I don't know that we'll ever have numbers to study, but I do know that with the "new found" knowledge that snakes can't llive in these temperatures, we've shined the light on many problems with the "offical" reports that these snakes will be seen in New York City in the next 25 years. Even the Congress Critters have to take a second look at the legislation.

Jim Smith

Big Gunns is here to tell you that if 50,000 Burmese Pythons died there would be bodies all over the place, just like there was with the Iguanas. The skeleton of a large snake will stick around for a long time. There is people looking all over for them. If they died in the water, they would float. All the Gators are not gonna eat all of them, although they would if they happened across them.

Big Gunns is saying that there would have been dead bodies everywhere. They found the dead gators and crocs right? They even gave a number of how many crocs died.....because they found them.

There were some Burms found, but not 50,000....and 50,000 is the low estimate of how many died if there really is 100,000 of them. To Big Gunns...this 100% proves that their estimate of how many there are is total BS.

I agree with BG that this should help to "prove" that the estimates of how many burms are out there is total BS.

I cant add much to this, but like NeilGunns ( Which I just noticed sounds like NailGun...) says, IF there REALLY is 100,000 snakes out there, we would be finding the bones. Not only that, but where are all of the 50,000 LIVING snakes that should be left? If you watched some of the videos, people are having trouble finding them dead, or alive.

What im trying to say is, the 100,000 estimate is total BS.

:2cent:

Do you guys know how large the Everglades are? 100,000 snakes could easily hide in the Everglades. I would venture a guess that the researchers haven't surveyed 10% of the Everglades for snakes. It would be impossible. You would need the Army Corp of Engineers and then give them 25 years.

Regardless of the number of snakes, dead or alive, this information will probably be enough to prevent this bill from becoming law.

Jim Smith

I have to agree with the OP the numbers thrown out there by the govt are crazy. Now when it comes to the dead snakes, vulchers( the nasty birds) must of had a field day.

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

Do you guys know how large the Everglades are? 100,000 snakes could easily hide in the Everglades. I would venture a guess that the researchers haven't surveyed 10% of the Everglades for snakes. It would be impossible. You would need the Army Corp of Engineers and then give them 25 years.

Regardless of the number of snakes, dead or alive, this information will probably be enough to prevent this bill from becoming law.

Jim Smith

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And yet, they have an estimate on the number of snakes, founded just in time for the bill? I think that the 100,000 is just a bs guess by our government trying to scare people. Maybe they should spend more time trying to get the millions of stray dogs off the street.

Anyways, maybe there is that many snakes on the loose, but right now they cant find them in them even in spots where they have been found in large numbers roaming for years.

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

Do you guys know how large the Everglades are? 100,000 snakes could easily hide in the Everglades. I would venture a guess that the researchers haven't surveyed 10% of the Everglades for snakes. It would be impossible. You would need the Army Corp of Engineers and then give them 25 years.

Regardless of the number of snakes, dead or alive, this information will probably be enough to prevent this bill from becoming law.

Jim Smith

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Trust BG. If there were 50 to 90,000 dead Python, you would find thousands of skeletons everywhere. A snake and it's tough skin, long skeleton, and scales just doesn't disappear like other animals do. It's the same as a Gator. A dead gator will be around for a long time.

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Trust BG. If there were 50 to 90,000 dead Python, you would find thousands of skeletons everywhere. A snake and it's tough skin, long skeleton, and scales just doesn't disappear like other animals do. It's the same as a Gator. A dead gator will be around for a long time.

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I'm sorry, but the experts disagree with BG. I know it's hard to believe. If deer, elk and bear bones can disappear within a few short weeks, a snake's skeleton doesn't stand a chance. Just small animals alone can strip a snake down to the bones in no time, with many parts of the snake's skeketon going with the small animals. Then what's left of the skeleton wouldn't stand a chance agains the ants, grubs, worms, then you'd have the microbes eating away anything else that was left. Look it up. Nature is very good at cleaning the woods/forest/Everglades.

Jim Smith

He does have a point though--iguana corpses were piling up, but very few burm corpses were found--even though we know most of the microchipped animals died, so the death toll must have been high. If their numbers out there were really that great, there should have been more. The vultures had a HUGE feast, but there was so much death, the scavengers couldn't keep up with it all...alligators, crocs, tropical fish, iguanas, etc etc. People saw corpses everywhere.
Conclusion, there were never many Burms out there to begin with.

The absence of corpses is an argument for both sides. Proponents of the ban will say there are no corpses because they are still alive and opponents will say there are few corpses because there weren't many to begin with. The arguments negate each other and they don't lead to any clear conclusion, just more speculation. As such, I wouldn't recommend making the lack or pythons bones a bullet point in the argument against the ban.

But, my $.02 is that (1) iguanas do not avoid humans with the same gusto as snakes (so dead iguanas may be more likely to be found) and (2) pythons will tend to stay (and die) in burrows/extremely thick brush (or other forms of dark seclusion). Combine this with the scavenger argument and I don't think we'll ever see much in the way of bones.

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

I'm sorry, but the experts disagree with BG. I know it's hard to believe. If deer, elk and bear bones can disappear within a few short weeks, a snake's skeleton doesn't stand a chance. Just small animals alone can strip a snake down to the bones in no time, with many parts of the snake's skeketon going with the small animals. Then what's left of the skeleton wouldn't stand a chance agains the ants, grubs, worms, then you'd have the microbes eating away anything else that was left. Look it up. Nature is very good at cleaning the woods/forest/Everglades.

Jim Smith

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"A few weeks" is plenty of time to find even 500 dead pythons. They were never there to begin with. Not in those numbers. They seem to know how many Crocs died give or take a few by how many bodies they found. Well????

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Originally Posted by ColinWeaver

The absence of corpses is an argument for both sides. Proponents of the ban will say there are no corpses because they are still alive and opponents will say there are few corpses because there weren't many to begin with. The arguments negate each other and they don't lead to any clear conclusion, just more speculation. As such, I wouldn't recommend making the lack or pythons bones a bullet point in the argument against the ban.

But, my $.02 is that (1) iguanas do not avoid humans with the same gusto as snakes (so dead iguanas may be more likely to be found) and (2) pythons will tend to stay (and die) in burrows/extremely thick brush (or other forms of dark seclusion). Combine this with the scavenger argument and I don't think we'll ever see much in the way of bones.

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BG made the same point in his original post. They'll try and twist it, but it's harder for them to do so because their microchipped animals died. If they died...so would the others.

I completely agree that the 100,000 number was purely fabricated propaganda to scare the American people. This and the bogus USGS report just goes to show how much the Florida legislators will lie and exagerrate to get federal funding.

How come they were able to find the micro chipped animals intact but not the 100,000 others? Surely a many of them should pop up. They found lots of dead alligators, fish and manatees but very few pythons, go figure.

This whole situation has been grossly blown out of proportion and IMO those who lied should be held accountable and prosecuted for misleading the American people and government for their bogus testimony so they could rob money from the Feds and push their extremist ideology at the expense of hard working citizens.

If I ran into a movie theater and yelled fire when there was no danger I would be prosecuted and convicted yet when government agencies do it nothing is done.:mad:

Animals burrow and freeze and die underground in hybernaculums aka their own graves. Wag theory or statistics will be used over the work to find and count the dead

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Originally Posted by West Coast Jungle

I completely agree that the 100,000 number was purely fabricated propaganda to scare the American people. This and the bogus USGS report just goes to show how much the Florida legislators will lie and exagerrate to get federal funding.

How come they were able to find the micro chipped animals intact but not the 100,000 others? Surely a many of them should pop up. They found lots of dead alligators, fish and manatees but very few pythons, go figure.

This whole situation has been grossly blown out of proportion and IMO those who lied should be held accountable and prosecuted for misleading the American people and government for their bogus testimony so they could rob money from the Feds and push their extremist ideology at the expense of hard working citizens.

If I ran into a movie theater and yelled fire when there was no danger I would be prosecuted and convicted yet when government agencies do it nothing is done.:mad:

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BG agrees. More ideas for USARK. BG sees a lawsuit coming also.

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Originally Posted by Dragoon

Animals burrow and freeze and die underground in hybernaculums aka their own graves. Wag theory or statistics will be used over the work to find and count the dead

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All 50 to 90,000 of them were underground??? BG doesn't think so.