Lavender x candy = compatible?!

Anyone know anything about this post on ks?




[URL="http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1802907,1802907"]

Huh. I highly doubt that they are compatible. Perhaps it's an April Fool's day joke??

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Originally Posted by joshm

Anyone know anything about this post on ks?




[URL="http://forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1802907,1802907"]

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You mean the thread with nothing on it.:D BG can see how people might say that. People who haven't seen them together. You need to see them at certain ages. It's weird how both animals change. Here is a pic of a baby Candy and a baby Lav. They look the same to BG.:rolleyes::D

pic on next post

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...dy_and_lav.jpg

Identical.:D

I agree with BG, seeing how differently they look, I can't imagine that they would be compatible.

Would love to see someone do the pairing just to have the data, but seeing how they are likely to produce dbl hets, I think most ppl will keep them separate.

Justin

BG suspects it's just business as usual in the Ball Python world. You mess with me...I mess with you. It's the same old same old that only people at the top would know about.

It can be fun.:banana::banana:

Kinda coincidental it's today though. Hmm...wonder who BG messed with today?;):D

IMO that would be a very nice DBL Het! What do you want? Candy? Lav? Step around and lets see what hatches!

Guess time will tell if it's a prank or not! Would imagine that someone this season or next will try it..

May well be April Fools or some other sort of misinformation but also wouldn't surprise me all that much if true. Look at the different phases of albino retic. I've not been following retics that close but sure sounds like two different looking compatible albino alleles that combine to make a third phenotype.

I was actually expecting something like this with regular albino and caramel but so far I've come as close as hearing that cross was done last year and would hope that if they where compatible someone would have said something so guessing they aren't.

Tracy thinks there is a conspiracy theory going on...she thinks posts being pulled means somethings up! I imagine if a lavender albino x Candy/Toffee baby is nice-a lavender x Ultramel will be crazy!

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

I agree with BG, seeing how differently they look, I can't imagine that they would be compatible.

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I agree, but then again we get things like lessers, russos, and phantoms all being compatible, so I never make assumptions.

I only make intelligent, informed guesses, and my guess is the same as above.

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Originally Posted by jkobylka

I agree with BG, seeing how differently they look, I can't imagine that they would be compatible.

Would love to see someone do the pairing just to have the data, but seeing how they are likely to produce dbl hets, I think most ppl will keep them separate.

Justin

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I agree. But you never know. I think that enough of the BEL complex morphs look fairly different that you might not think they're compatible if you didn't know better.

Someone actually called me yesterday and asked if I heard about it, and I promptly reminded them that it's April Fool's day, that quickly ended that discussion...

I'm betting on double hets. Because it'd be awesome to be wrong.

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Originally Posted by Tracy Barker

Tracy thinks there is a conspiracy theory going on...she thinks posts being pulled means somethings up! I imagine if a lavender albino x Candy/Toffee baby is nice-a lavender x Ultramel will be crazy!

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Haha....BG will give you a haha on this post.


Here's what BG has to say.

Did you ever see the Friends episode where Ross cheated on Rachel? (not really they were on a break):D Well in the episode Joey(think it was Joey) asked him if he "followed the trail". You know....follow the trail of everyone that knows to see if it will get back to Rachel. He followed the trail and it led him to the leeetle weasel bartender that blew his cover.

OK...wtf is BG talking about?

Well...lets "follow the trail".

There are only two people that could have sold anyone 100% hets from this project. It is known who these people are. The number of people that could have done this is low. If one of these people had actually done this(proved compatible)...who do you think the first person they would call would be(those 2 people that sold them and BG happens to know both very well;))? It doesn't say Toffee...it says Candy....so this rules out Toffee hets.

This isn't the only reason BG believes the post is bull. He has another, but won't say because it will get misconstrued.

BG will say this though. If it was true, BG would look to be more of a genius than he already is. Someone "in the know" can figure out why that is.

There's no names here. Why?????.....because the 2 people that sold the hets can say whether or not it's possible to make that claim. They know where the hets are.

You rookies need to realize. It's the same old thing in this bizz. BG deals with it all the time. "Follow the trail" peeps. Now all you detectives out there. Let's do some detective work. Find out who Dtolley is that made the post...and let's "follow the trail". If it's true, the trail should be easy to follow right?

Ahhhh...what the heck. BG will let it get "misconstrued". Somehow BG believes that if someone did actually prove them compatible....they would keep it to themselves. There's just too much money to be lost by saying they are. Money that this person would have had to of spent on their hets.

BG actually has one more thing he can add, but it's another that could be "misconstrued".:D

Well Neil I am breeding a het Toffee male to a Het lavender female so we shall see if I get something new and different. Lord knows I will tell the world and I have a lot of money to lose by doing so! But I know it will make you squirm!

Brock

I am sure the two in the know with the candy would not come out and say the Candy and Lavs are compatible. It would make the 5000 grand het candys worth $500. Like the het lavs are. They would lose to much money.

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Originally Posted by Thomas Jones

I am sure the two in the know with the candy would not come out and say the Candy and Lavs are compatible. It would make the 5000 grand het candys worth $500. Like the het lavs are. They would lose to much money.

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Pfft where are you gettin your het lavs then? A female het lav BABY will run you almost 3x times that. I know, I bought mine out the egg from Mr. Kobylka himself.

Im going to go with they're not compatible. And I pray they're not compatible. Not to save their value, but because there is hardly anything out there that compares to the visual delight that is a Candy.

Sorry for the dumb question, but what would compatible here mean?

Clark guesses that it is that they produce the same clutch odds.... or something.. (;) BG) -- Clark loves to read BG's third person posts. :bow:

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Originally Posted by Brock Wagner

Well Neil I am breeding a het Toffee male to a Het lavender female so we shall see if I get something new and different. Lord knows I will tell the world and I have a lot of money to lose by doing so! But I know it will make you squirm!

Brock

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BG doesn't "squirm". He does a good jig though. Looks like we'll be doing it(jig) again for a while. Oh well.:D

We have always been dancing a jig Neil!

Brock

This thread is kinda like dancing with the stars..:8:

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Originally Posted by Brock Wagner

We have always been dancing a jig Neil!

Brock

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Yeah we have. Can BG suggest a Waltz?:D

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Originally Posted by KMS

This thread is kinda like dancing with the stars..:8:

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Only one star here...wish it was BG.:D

So....guess you just want to dance around my question...

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Originally Posted by ClarkT

So....guess you just want to dance around my question...

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Sorry, it means when bred together they will produce something which hasn't been proven one way or the other yet.

Does this mean I can breed my Toffee to an Albino and Lav to get some really cool hets and let the buyers get excited at their Albino and Lav looking Toffees as adults. I can see people putting their Hets to these and some wonderfully mixed up Albino babies for their buyers :banana:
Paul

Heh,

If you're taking requests Paul I'd like to see a candybee.

Or a CandyPied.

Or a CandyClown. :please:

Of course what I'd really like to see is a pair of hets in my house. :rolleyes:

But I regret I have but two kidneys to sell and they may not pass my MOT. :ninja:


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

Heh,

If you're taking requests Paul I'd like to see a candybee.

Or a CandyPied.

Or a CandyClown. :please:

Of course what I'd really like to see is a pair of hets in my house. :rolleyes:

But I regret I have but two kidneys to sell and they may not pass my MOT. :ninja:


dr del

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I only have Toffee :P
Paul

Doh!!

Sorry. :oops:

It's that damned candyman addling my braincell. **shakes fist**

So whats the plans regarding ToffeeBees, ToffeePie(d) and ToffeeClown?

How are you fixed for kidneys? :P


dr del

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Originally Posted by paul.angelides

I only have Toffee :P
Paul

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Sorry to hear this.:P:rofl:

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Originally Posted by Big Gunns

Sorry to hear this.:P:rofl:

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Lol, don't be Neil I'm NOT :banana:
Paul

Good Luck with them guys. I hope they do not prove compatible. Could take along time to find out for certain. It could be the Candy was het lav or vice versa. Its a long long shot but possible. You would have to eliminate that possibility.

One question, :confused:

Is everyone ruling out the possibility of a form of compatability that does not equate to "the same as"

Why would candies ( or toffee's - I am not clear on those two as is :oops: someone tell me later ) het forms drop to the same price as lav albino hets in that case?

Lets say they are both mutations at the same location.

if they were still different then couldn't they produce a "super" form that was visually distinct from the homozygous forms of both genes.

If the hybrid super was impressive enough surely that would, in fact, increase the price of both genes both het and homozygous?

Explain it to me please. :please:


dr del

I don't have a dog in the fight -- don't have any of the 3 morphs in question/discussion.

However, curious whether a visual from a DH breeding, if they are proven incompatible, will be a visual improvement over either of the base morphs??? Any thoughts? I have no clue. :confused:

I wish I knew, :D

On the combo het;

I don't even know if they both work to create their colouration by creating the same leaky gene.

If they were maybe you would get an intergrade like a more intense lavender albino.

Or of it was a different gene or result on the same gene if you would get a shaded candy.

Or they could knacker the genes altogether and produce a regular looking albino phenotype. :confused:

On the dual homozygous;

The same results could be true mentioned above I think.

I'd love to be involved in finding out one way or another that's for sure. :rofl:


dr del

I think it's absolute crap. We have Balls that look almost identical but are not compatible like the Axanthic and Caramel and Ultramel and now we have 2 snakes that look a mile apart that are compatible. If I'm wrong I will be the first to say sorry but until I see for myself then I will take it as an April fools joke and nothing more.
Paul

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Originally Posted by Bill Buchman

I don't have a dog in the fight -- don't have any of the 3 morphs in question/discussion.

However, curious whether a visual from a DH breeding, if they are proven incompatible, will be a visual improvement over either of the base morphs??? Any thoughts? I have no clue. :confused:

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I think if you do breed two double hets together and get a Candy Lav it will be one awesome animal. Even though the Candyman was BG's baby, BG likes the way the best of the best Lavs look as adults better. Only time will tell. Since there's not many people that have seen them both side by side in person, it's hard to see the real difference in them. It's huge, but who knows. BG will wait and see.

IF they turn out to be compatible it makes both mutations much more interesting to me but I'm weird that way. Probably will never get a pair of lavender retics due to their size but some day in the long off future (i.e. when I can afford them) would love to have a pair of the ball python lavender\\candy combo IF it's a nice visual and can produce a smorgasbord of only visual lavender, combo, and candy.

Hard to say what is the effect on price IF this turns out to be a true allele situation. The nature of alleles is that they are DIFFERENT versions (in this case different mutant versions) of the SAME gene. Because there is no room for a normal version of the common gene when you breed one of the homozygous mutant versions to the other homozygous mutant version you don't expect normal looking double hets but some sort of combo mutant type. An example with some track record would be lesser and mojave except that being co-dominant you can see the hets. But if you breed homozygous lesser to homozygous mojave you get all white snakes. How much did less expensive mojave females effect the price of lessers or was it all just the inevitable drop in price of an expensive and highly desirable morph with lots of motivation for production? Mojave and lesser are not interchangeable but despite very different starting prices have come closer together, just not sure about all the reasons. Time might be the biggest factor and if so one could expect the low price equalization to be even further off for a recessive mutant allele pair. Mojave may actually be getting a boost to help close the gap recently from combos like mystic potion. Nice that we have both mojave and lesser for different tastes. If candy is consistently more outrageous than even lavender then I’m sure it will be reflected in the relative prices for a long time regardless of compatibility.

It would be great if they work together but if they do the result will NOT be a Candy but a cross. The Candy will still hold the price for me as you will still need one. It's like the Mystic Potion, to me it's worth half the price of the Super Mystic/Phantom. You will only ever produce 50% Mystics from
the Potion breeding and 100% from the Super. So for me it's worth half the price as the Mystic is the important gene in the equation. The Orange Glow Retic is cool but you still need a Caramel to make it happen. I can't see it happening but welcome it if it does. My problem is that if it does not happen we will have lots of messed up babies that people will convince themselves being Cany as they have never seen babies in the flesh. I for one would never breed my Toffee to the Lav until I have concrete evidence first.
Paul