Help! Wobbly Snake

My Ball Python, Soku, got away from me. I found him 6 days later in our very cold basement. I had placed a space heater near a centrally located wall and put blankets in a half circle around it. When I found him under one of the blankets, yesterday, he was not in good shape. He was VERY cold since his belly was on the cold basement floor. I slowly warmed him up, gave him some water which he drank very thirstily, and started to notice something strange...

He kept wanting to put his head upside down. At first I thought it was the stress of warming up but it continued on to the night. I also noticed a strange circular behavior as he wrapped himself around my arm. His head wobbles back and forth from time to time. When I went to feed him, things got really interesting. The first mouse he was able to strike. He had no problem getting it down. The second mouse was an issue. He wobbled all over and couldn't aim his strikes. Eventually after looking online, I found that his symptoms EXACTLY match a spider wobble. I watched a video where the pet owner actually had to help their snake eat. I took my Soku by the neck and placed the mouse by his mouth, he opened his mouth and I placed the head in it. He got the mouse down with no problem.

The weird thing is, just like in spider wobble, it is not too bad unless he is focusing, the harder the focus, the more the wobble. He was fine before he disappeared?

I don't have money to take him to the vet this week. It is the slowest time of year at work and we usually are fine financially but it has been a rough few months. He ate which is awesome and he seems fine besides the wobble symptoms. Every time I try to look up his symptoms I get the spider wobble... I found a small snippet about temps over 100 for over 3 hours causing problems like his. I can't find anymore info on that either. It is possible he found a heat source in the basement that was too warm for him.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Do you have a heating unit or furnace in your basement? And do you store any pesticides/chemicals in the area? Is your BP a normal or a morph?

he could have some neurological issues from being too hot or too cold.

Did you happen to bring any new snakes (boas?) into the house recently?

I would just keep an eye on him for a few days and take him to the vet as soon as you can.

He is the only snake. There is a furnace but no real access that I could find. There was access to a water heater. We looked in there several times. Also a dryer. When we found him he had a strange black lint around his mouth in in his teeth. I got that cleaned out. I think he might have been drinking water out of the basement drain, which is close to the dryer and contains lint. I don't know if there are any chemicals in that drain but there shouldn't be. No other chemicals to speak of.

He is a morph but not a spider morph. I think the spider wobble is onset from birth but I couldn't find that info either. His symptoms are absolutely identical though. I read a lot on it yesterday.

Any rat poison or bait around any where in the basement. Snake finds dead rat or mouse full of poison, eats rat in turn eats poison..

The basement was sprayed for bugs but there has not been rat poison anywhere since I moved in...about a year ago. The basement has not been sprayed in that time either. His color is really good and he is getting stronger..he ate... I'm lost....

could have jsut gotten to cold.. Keep and eye on him

I will keep a very close eye on him. He was without question too cold for 6 days. He has been warm for about 27 hours now.

Im doubting IBD

But rather too cold or he got into something chemical wise.

Keep an eye on him, though I know you are:gj:

possible chemical since the drain holds water I bet year round so might be trases of the bug chemicals in there. I watch hime and take him to the vet asap . The longer you wait it can get owrst or may just go away it all depends onthe chemical and the effects it may have on a snake.

Thanks for the help! If it gets any worse I will beg, borrow or steal money to get him to the vet but right now it doesn't seem like they will be any help. I appreciate your kind responses! If anyone else has a new suggestion I am all ears.

I don't know if your snake got cold enough for this to apply, but it definitely can be a symptom of having gotten to cold, and when it does happen, it can take a long time to get back to normal. This is from the Barker's article "Will They Come in out of the Cold."

Quote:

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When warmed to temperatures where activity is possible, snakes suffering CSS will not be able to move in a coordinated manner. They may exhibit what appear to be violent seizures if disturbed or handled. Snakes with this condition may die within 48 hours of being warmed; if they survive past that period of time, they likely will recover, but full recovery to normal coordinated movement can take more than a year.

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There is more information in the article. That particular quote came from the second page.
http://www.vpi.com/sites/vpi.com/fil...fCold_BCHS.pdf

It is a little too late, but I would not have fed your snake a big meal so soon after this stressful experience, especially when you began seeing the wobbling. Since he was only lose for 6 days, there was no need to rush to feed him at all. I probably would have waited a week before I even attempted to feed him at all, and then given a small meal.

Thank you so much kc261. This sounds like the cause and it is good to know that if he makes it through the next 24 hours he will recover...however slowly that will be. He seems stronger besides the wobbles and spins. I am so grateful for the info!

Good Luck, I hope he pulls through for you...

u said he is a morph but not a spider, but what kind of morph is it??

The pet store said he is a Pastel Ghost.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4070/...b95468dd_o.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2502/...7268abe8_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4072/...e394c563_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4001/...0c35608f_o.jpg

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4058/...ae374e56_o.jpg

Not a pastel ghost, just a very nice pastel :)

How is the little guy doing today?

I suspected he may not be ghost. He does have spots on him that look ghost which is interesting... his sister was a ghost but not pastel...

He seems a little stronger but his motor control is about the same. He reminds me of Stevie Wonder at times. If it is CSS then he has made it through the first 48 hours after warming and has a good prognosis. Looks like his food has digested well. His color is fairly good, a little dull but he is due for a shed. I soaked him in Pedialite last night for about 10 minutes. I think he was dehydrated as well because he went straight for his water when I found him, before he had hardly been warmed and drank several more times throughout the day.

I guess we will just take it one day at a time. I have a video...

YouTube - Soku - Cold Shock Syndrome - 33 Hrs In

Defiantly neurological problem. IBD would be way more intense head movements and wouldnt of ate either.

Either he got very cold, poison,or overheated from wrapping something too warm. He may never return to normal, but may still live a long life.

I'm just so glad to have him back. If need be I'll make him a little helmet :) Or maybe just tape cotton balls to the sides of his head (j/k...he would never go for that). He seems to be the same Soku..just a lot less coordinated.

Aww, poor baby.
Yes, he looks like a very NICE pastel, but not a ghost. The spots that 'look ghost' are called 'blushing', by the way.

40 hour update?

He's a gorgeous pastel, I hope he makes it through!

Aw. I just watched the video. Poor guy. :(

I hope he improves, but if not, I would guess he can still live a long and otherwise healthy life. Spiders do, and this looks very similar to their issues.

Please keep us updated!

So that's what blushing is... Never would have guessed.

Soku is doing much better today. I can see that he is regaining his motor control and it is very encouraging. Here is a video from yesterday and then a video from today. His skin is very dull today...almost he's about to shed but his face isn't wrinkly...

YouTube - Soku - Day 3


YouTube - Soku - Day 4

There does look to be a significant improvement in the day 4 video. That's great! :gj: I hope he'll continue to improve!

I think it is neat that you are documenting his progress like this, and I hope you'll keep updating us and that you'll leave the videos up so that other people may be able to refer back to this thread if their snake ever undergoes anything similar. However, be sure you give him plenty of time to rest and recuperate!

Its so good to see improvement.
Keep getting better soku!

I will keep posting. He is resting now. Thanks for the support :) It's very welcome.

its good to know he is getting better. if it were me i would bump up humidity to around 70 and keep the temps around 93-95. that will help rehydrate him while he rests and lets any stress go away, and the heat will help him fight off anything that may be messing with his immune system. good luck, post again soon

Hi I am glad to see that your boy is doing better. I just wanted to tell you about our Buddy. Buddy's head was crushed as a baby by an a@@hole who bought him from the store I deal with. My daughter and I rescued him, his head was so flat that his eyes were pointing skyward. He had ate for us in the store, so we took him home. He had bad neurological problems, if he lifted his head too high he would flip over backwards, striking, at food, could be an issue at times. Bottom line is that he is now 5 yrs old 1700 grams and does homework with my daughter. All his problems have improved to the point of not being noticeable, and he is on f/t food so all is good. Snakes are incredibly resilient and he will be fine. Keep us posted.
Mike Kelly
PS you can see Buddy on my iHerp under mfkelly

that's a great looking snake , I wish my pastel had yellows that bright. hope he continues to improve.

Good to hear he's doing better! :gj: I have a spider with a slight wobble, and it hasn't affected him at all. He eats live mice like there's no tomorrow, easily 3-4 in one feeding if I let him... also doesn't have corkscrewing or flipping over issues, and is sweet as can be. So even if your snake retains some of the wobble, he can still lead a full and happy life.

P.S. Your pastel is probably het ghost, which would explain how his sister was a ghost... if you decide to breed him, I'd suggest a ghost or het female. :)

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Originally Posted by Aiion

I'm just so glad to have him back. If need be I'll make him a little helmet :)

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OMG, that image just cracked me up! :8: Did you see the entry in this month's BPOM, where the snake is wearing a Monopoly top hat? You could do something like that, LOLOL.

Poor buddy... He is lucky to have you! Glad he pulled through.

Soku is feeling a little under the weather today. He shows no signs of RI but he is in shed... I think I am going to start calling shed time "his time of the month". Yesterday he just moped around and I didn't take a video. He is going to shed any day. My mother in law is working on the helmet. We are going to try to wait and feed him until after his shed. Once I fed him and he shed within 12 hours, made it a little difficult for him.

Here is the latest video taken day before yesterday. His head control on the ground or on a surface is much much better. In the air...not so much.

YouTube - Soku Day 6

oh no! im so sorry, he is a lil cute guy tho. as long as he has u he should do fine. im just worried about how he will deal with it over time, cuz spiders are born with it and dont know anything else. this guy was fine and then it just appeared. as long as he is eating and gaining weight then nothing to worry about. he appears to be happy. let us know how the feed goes. good luck, thanks for the update.

He sticks close by us now, even though he is good at getting around once his head is on the ground. He used to be quite the adventurer, which is what got him into this whole mess in the first place. He was a great climber and loved to practice his balance. Now he practices balance while not going anywhere.

It was between day 3 and 4. You could literally see him working out his movements, and it was when he figured out that if he keeps his head down he has greater control.

I'm just wondering something here, and if I am wrong, maybe some of the breeders can correct me. But, is it possible, that the ghost the pet store identified as his sibling actually came from the same supplier, just a different clutch, and your pastel was the result of a Pastel X Spider pairing. As I understand it, the percentages of that pairing would be 25% Bee, 25% Pastel, 25% Spider, and 25% Normal. If that is the case then your Pastel would still have the spider genes, and also as I understand it, the wobbles are not always apparent in young snakes and can appear and diminish at different times. Just a thought I had...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vypyrz

I'm just wondering something here, and if I am wrong, maybe some of the breeders can correct me. But, is it possible, that the ghost the pet store identified as his sibling actually came from the same supplier, just a different clutch, and your pastel was the result of a Pastel X Spider pairing. As I understand it, the percentages of that pairing would be 25% Bee, 25% Pastel, 25% Spider, and 25% Normal. If that is the case then your Pastel would still have the spider genes, and also as I understand it, the wobbles are not always apparent in young snakes and can appear and diminish at different times. Just a thought I had...

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It the snake had the spider gene, you would see it visually. If it isn't present, it won't show up visually. There is no non-visual version of the spider gene (or het).

I am very happy to report that Soku's symptoms have improved an incredible amount. He is still putting his head upside down but much less frequently and he is able to right himself immediately. His wobble is much less and he was able to strike at 2 mice, get them turned around the right direction and eat them without problem. He will shed any day now and I will have a new video at that time.:banana:

Glad to hear, and hope he keeps improving!:)

That great news! It sounds like it was CSS. He's on his way to being back to his normal self. Dont let that little guy escape again. His body doesnt seem to like the cold very much lol. Poor little guy. Im glad hes doing better.

just buy him one of those heated snakey snuggies! lol if he ever gets out he will be nice and warm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aiion

I am very happy to report that Soku's symptoms have improved an incredible amount. He is still putting his head upside down but much less frequently and he is able to right himself immediately. His wobble is much less and he was able to strike at 2 mice, get them turned around the right direction and eat them without problem. He will shed any day now and I will have a new video at that time.:banana:

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I am so happy Soku is feeling better.

He hardly has any wobble at all and seems to have full control. He has that look now of a snake who has seen things...

YouTube - Soku's Feeling Much Better

He looks much better! I'm glad he made a full recovery!

Glad he's doing so much better!