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  • 03-27-2010, 05:55 PM
    Moofins07
    My brain is way too analytical.
    I was walking home this afternoon, and I just randomly thought of something.

    So far as I know, we are the only species on the planet that "cleans up" after we're done with our "dwellings".

    At least, the people that believe in basic cleanliness do, but what I'm getting at is, for example, a groundhog or a mole doesn't care about the state of its burrow once it decides to abandon it. Bedding, feces, deceased young (god forbid we any of you should have that problem), etc. Mind you, WE have toilets and garbage disposal systems, granted, but... Once we decide to move, or even when we realize we'll be having company over, we clean up or organize. But what DRIVES us to be a more cleanly and tidy species than others?

    http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/i...ave/Burrow.jpg

    I just find myself analyzing the weirdest things sometimes on my walks. It felt like a conversation starter and I welcome anyone's opinions on this odd subject. If anyone KNOWS of a few species of animals off the top of their heads that DO display similar behavior to ours when it comes to cleaning up their burrows, nests, caves, hidey-holes, whathaveyou, that would be awesome.

    We humans are just weird. Actually, while I'm on the subject of our oddities, another thing that has been kicking in the back of my mind is this: why do humans have the largest number of illnesses out of any other species on the planet? Or so it seems.

    I don't expect many replies, this is more or less just me getting ides out of my head, but, please, go ahead! I'm eager to know if anyone else ever thinks of these strange things in life. :gj:
  • 03-27-2010, 06:08 PM
    dembonez
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    ugh dude im the same way my mom always tells me i over analyze stuff :rolleyes:
  • 03-27-2010, 06:12 PM
    Moofins07
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by dembonez View Post
    ugh dude im the same way my mom always tells me i over analyze stuff :rolleyes:

    Hahah, it almost gets too much sometimes. I can't just tell my brain to "shut up".:weirdface
  • 03-27-2010, 06:19 PM
    Danounet
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    I cant get my brain to stop thinking, and I think that is why I have sleeping problems. I cant fall asleep until my body is really tired and the need to sleep overcomes my active brain. :rage:
  • 03-27-2010, 07:41 PM
    Beardedragon
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    What sucks is right before you go to sleep, you really start to over analize everything. For me it is, too bad I just cant remember my awesome solutions when I wake up!
  • 03-27-2010, 07:47 PM
    dr del
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Hi,

    Quite a few animals keep their homes clean.

    Badgers (er the british version? ) regularly change their bedding and throw away the old stuff as do many different burrowing animals.

    Birds often remove the droppings from their young from the nest and drop them some distance away.

    The bower bird is positively nuts about the state of the bower and Capercaillies show a less extreme version of that behaviour in preparing their lek.

    But those are all while the area is occupied or about to be so not exactly what you are looking for. I suspect nature has been historically unkind to animals that waste energy and time cleaning up something they no longer have any use for. :ninja:

    Could it also be related to the reasons the animals leave? I mean I can think of several common reasons where cleaning up behind you would be impossible or suicidal - death, dangerous predators in the area, no food in the area etc.

    On the disease front I don't think we do have any more diseases than other animals - it only seems like it because we have devoted so many resources to discovering, classifying and studying anything that can hurt or kill us and given those a higher priority than most animal diseases.

    I know sheep seem to die of the strangest things on occasion. :rolleyes:


    dr del
  • 03-27-2010, 08:57 PM
    dembonez
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Moofins07 View Post
    Hahah, it almost gets too much sometimes. I can't just tell my brain to "shut up".:weirdface

    lol for sure! :banana:
  • 03-27-2010, 09:04 PM
    wilomn
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    There are several species of crabs and not a few fish that also keep quite tidy homes.
  • 03-27-2010, 09:12 PM
    mr. s
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Nature cleans up after animals. They don't need to. They move on. Nature is sustainable on it's own and so an animal can focus its time on survival and reproduction. Our human brains have taken us in a different direction now that we are beyond the basics of survival. Also, there are also lots of birds and fish that I know of who clean out a mating or living area.

    As for the diseases, I agree with dr. del. We just analyze them more. A thousand years ago, people would just die of "a fever". They did not know everything that was going on. This still happens in 3rd world countries. People just die, and nobody finds out why.

    Don't worry about having an active mind, I LOVE it. I LOVE thinking about all kinds of things that most people don't care about. I think that an active mind is particularly valuable when we combine it with hard work and dedicate ourselves to something, and I mean DEDICATE. In the past, 5 or 6 years of my life, since I was 19 or 20, for the first time, I began to really decide to work hard at everything that I do as opposed to the passing grades I was shooting for in high school. From this, I have seen the most rewarding outcome, which is invaluable for my future. I decided to do well in school. I decided to start a business. I decided to travel the world. I have chosen to pursue a profession based on what I would do if I knew I could not fail. I see all these things coming together, and among other things, I attribute it to training an active mind to be a great tool.
  • 03-27-2010, 09:56 PM
    Seru1
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Well, I hate to bring this into a discussion, but from my standpoint It's because we're not animals. We're beings set apart.


    A religious standpoint not everyone agrees with and thats okay, but it is mine and one reason I never spend time comparing man to animal.
  • 03-27-2010, 10:11 PM
    j_h_smith
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    You don't know some of my relatives. ;)

    Jim Smith
  • 03-27-2010, 10:16 PM
    Seru1
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Oh trust me I work in redneck supermarket's all day. Some people ACT like animals sure.


    I hate to talk religion. Always scared to offend someone.:P
  • 03-28-2010, 01:09 AM
    unspecified42
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Societal norms, which are mostly driven by the knowledge that less mess equals less disease.
  • 03-28-2010, 01:13 AM
    Elise.m
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    I don't get offended by someone talking about religion... I just get annoyed ;) (My friend does it to me all the time, when I told her about termite mounds being perfect habitats for BPs... She went on about how only god could do that. I've learned to tune it out.)

    I think cleaning up before we have company is due to us knowing that our company doesn't want to see our mess, and we don't want them to see our mess. I'm sure other cultures are different... I know some people who don't wear deodorant. To me, it's... :puke:. To them, it's nothing. But I respect that, because it's their decision.
  • 03-28-2010, 02:08 AM
    Seru1
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    See I try not to throw it out like that, but when a question is offered I do throw my belief out there with the caveat that "it's just my belief not something I am pushing on someone else."
  • 03-28-2010, 12:07 PM
    mr. s
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Elise.m View Post
    I don't get offended by someone talking about religion... I just get annoyed ;)

    Sounds like you don't respect your friend.
  • 03-28-2010, 12:12 PM
    WingedWolfPsion
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Actually, I think you're simply giving humans too much credit.

    Most humans DON'T clean up their homes if they are actually abandoning them (as opposed to selling or passing them on).
    They leave them in horrendous states of disorder, full of trash and rotting food, and worse.

    The only reason humans clean up their home before they leave is so that the next person to get it will be pleased with it, and will think highly of them. This only applies if they're selling or giving it away. So, it's a social thing. (A clean home also attracts buyers, so that's value, there).

    Truly abandoned homes are rarely left totally cleared out, let alone actually clean. People take only what they want with them, and leave the rest.
  • 03-28-2010, 12:24 PM
    WingedWolfPsion
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    (meant this to be an edit, but time ran out)

    And no, I can't set humans apart from other animals. There's not a single solitary thing that humans do that is different in type (rather than degree) from what some other animal can do. From quasi-religious acts to artwork, toolmaking and use to self awareness, compassion to sadism, war, love, hate, you will find it all in other species. All of it. Perhaps not all of it in the SAME other species (apart from great apes), but you'll find it.
    As a psychic--yes, they have souls too. Sorry for the folks who have faiths that say not, but some of us can see them, so it's moot. lol This is partly why there are stories of ghost animals, just as there are of ghost humans.

    The reason so many people believe humans are different...pure hubris, and lack of understanding. They overestimate humans (who have and continually act upon their instincts), and underestimate other species (who can sometimes override instincts to gain social favor, just as we sometimes can). Humans are really interesting animals, but they aren't 'better', or 'worse' than other animals. They're just the same.
    Humans have managed to do just one thing that impresses me--they are actually striving to protect other species that are imperiled. The basis for this may not be unique, but the application is. It's quite an accomplishment.
    You see, with this viewpoint, rather than being upset by all the gnarly things humans are doing to the world, instead we can see that, in comparison with other species, they're not doing so badly. Why do we expect more of them? We should instead be pleasantly surprised when they do something altruistic, plan for the future fully, and behave like the higher creatures they're so convinced they are.
  • 03-28-2010, 12:34 PM
    mr. s
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion View Post
    The reason so many people believe humans are different...pure hubris, and lack of understanding.
    Humans have managed to do just one thing that impresses me--they are actually striving to protect other species that are imperiled.

    You only think humans separate themselves from the animal kingdom in that they help other animals?
    Yes, there are GLIMPSES of similarity between humans and other animals, but I don't think our minds can truly be compared. I am trying to think of a specific example that might illustrate this, but.....there are too many. I understand if you have great respect for nature, it absolutely astounds me at every turn, but come on, we have been in space.....
  • 03-28-2010, 12:45 PM
    Seru1
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion View Post
    (meant this to be an edit, but time ran out)

    And no, I can't set humans apart from other animals. There's not a single solitary thing that humans do that is different in type (rather than degree) from what some other animal can do. From quasi-religious acts to artwork, toolmaking and use to self awareness, compassion to sadism, war, love, hate, you will find it all in other species. All of it. Perhaps not all of it in the SAME other species (apart from great apes), but you'll find it.
    As a psychic--yes, they have souls too. Sorry for the folks who have faiths that say not, but some of us can see them, so it's moot. lol This is partly why there are stories of ghost animals, just as there are of ghost humans.

    The reason so many people believe humans are different...pure hubris, and lack of understanding. They overestimate humans (who have and continually act upon their instincts), and underestimate other species (who can sometimes override instincts to gain social favor, just as we sometimes can). Humans are really interesting animals, but they aren't 'better', or 'worse' than other animals. They're just the same.
    Humans have managed to do just one thing that impresses me--they are actually striving to protect other species that are imperiled. The basis for this may not be unique, but the application is. It's quite an accomplishment.
    You see, with this viewpoint, rather than being upset by all the gnarly things humans are doing to the world, instead we can see that, in comparison with other species, they're not doing so badly. Why do we expect more of them? We should instead be pleasantly surprised when they do something altruistic, plan for the future fully, and behave like the higher creatures they're so convinced they are.

    And you totally have a right to believe that duder even if I totally disagree with you :gj: Party on dude. :D
  • 03-28-2010, 02:54 PM
    Elise.m
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mr. s View Post
    Sounds like you don't respect your friend.

    You're wrong. I have tons of respect for her. How could I not? She totally believes in something that (to me) is not physically real and no one can fully prove. But, it works out for her. That's her deal, not mine.

    Ever think she may not respect my beliefs since she's trying to force god on me?

    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion
    Actually, I think you're simply giving humans too much credit.

    Most humans DON'T clean up their homes if they are actually abandoning them (as opposed to selling or passing them on).
    They leave them in horrendous states of disorder, full of trash and rotting food, and worse.

    The only reason humans clean up their home before they leave is so that the next person to get it will be pleased with it, and will think highly of them. This only applies if they're selling or giving it away. So, it's a social thing. (A clean home also attracts buyers, so that's value, there).

    Truly abandoned homes are rarely left totally cleared out, let alone actually clean. People take only what they want with them, and leave the rest.

    Or just to get our down payment back on the place ;)
  • 03-28-2010, 03:43 PM
    WingedWolfPsion
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mr. s View Post
    I am trying to think of a specific example that might illustrate this, but.....there are too many.

    Not even one? It's pretty hard to refute if you can't come up with one. lol
    Any example you come up with, I guarantee, I can refute it with real evidence.

    As for space--it's tool making and tool use. Fancy, sophisticated, INCREDIBLE tool use--but still just tool making. It is only different in degree, not type of behavior. Lots of species make tools. You need to look at the basis of the behavior--at the brain, and what underlies it, not just at the end result.
  • 03-28-2010, 06:52 PM
    mr. s
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion View Post
    Not even one? It's pretty hard to refute if you can't come up with one. lol
    Any example you come up with, I guarantee, I can refute it with real evidence.

    I said there are too many, not that I can't think of one. I chose a very simple one, space exploration.
    Haha, I believe you can refute anything you want, but I don't think you can have a strong argument. You could even refute that gravity exists. I bet if we had a debate comparing the intelligence of animals and humans, you could bring up a lot of strong points, but I don't think a very high percentage of the population would agree with you. Using primitive tools and going to space are not equal in my eyes, not even close. Who knows, maybe I stand alone in that view.
  • 03-28-2010, 07:25 PM
    mr. s
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Elise.m View Post
    You're wrong. I have tons of respect for her. How could I not? She totally believes in something that (to me) is not physically real and no one can fully prove. But, it works out for her. That's her deal, not mine.

    First of all, I don't know the situation, and it really does not affect me, and I am not taking sides. Either way, I have no clue if you respect one other.
    I think we are probably talking about respect differently. I respect someones right to do a lot of things, such as vote for the communist party, (yes, in Canada, we have several parties that can run). I do not respect the ideas of the communist party however, and I am not afraid to say that. Too often I think we, as a society, tell ourselves that we respect things and people that we actually don't respect because we have a tough time being honest with ourselves since not respecting ideas is seen as ignorant or racist. I think that is where the difference comes in about respecting a persons right to believe something as opposed to the actual beliefs. It can also be that we respect the life someone lives and don't respect the ideas they believe because we see them as childish and poorly founded.
    Again, I am not attacking you. As you said, "You're wrong", I probably am. Just something interesting that I have thought about.
  • 03-29-2010, 10:43 AM
    4theSNAKElady
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    I totally agree with this viewpoint. It's exactly what I was thinking.
  • 03-29-2010, 10:51 AM
    4theSNAKElady
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by Seru1 View Post
    Well, I hate to bring this into a discussion, but from my standpoint It's because we're not animals. We're beings set apart.


    A religious standpoint not everyone agrees with and thats okay, but it is mine and one reason I never spend time comparing man to animal.

    This view point I agree with.
  • 03-30-2010, 02:00 AM
    Moofins07
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Wow, a lot of great points, guys! Keep the brainwaves a-comin'.

    Thanks, dr. del, for the examples. :)

    I respect religion, but I don't feel it's necessary. In my opinion, it's a manifestation of the human mind; the product of a desire to believe there's "something more" to life. It's a perfect example of how far our brains have evolved - it's the capacity to imagine 'what could be'. That's strictly MY opinion, though.

    To mr. s, I have to disagree on the "humans can't be classed with animals" front. It's too hard to ignore the fact that the majority of animals use tools, much like we do. As to who is copying who, I have no idea. It's also difficult to bypass the fact that chimps share 99% of our own DNA sequences. They can use "advanced" tools, learn sign language, and even do mathematics. Maybe that's only one example, but chimpanzees are still classed as animals, and since our DNA is only a couple chromosomes off, who's to say we're not too?
  • 03-30-2010, 02:25 AM
    mr. s
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    It's true, there are some very talented animals and we share a lot of characteristics.
    On a science front, the 98%, (or as little as 95%) that we share is an interesting number because it is something that makes sense in our minds, but I feel does not really illustrate the situation properly. For example, we share about 50% of our DNA with bananas.....yup, haha. Anyways, not that it means we are not similar in several ways to chimps, but the DNA thing is kind of complicated.
    About religion, I have a feeling there is going to be a few strong opinions expressed in the next couple posts......I think that religion is a very large subject that cannot be casually observed and a verdict rendered. Both sides of the fence have some of the most intelligent people in the world, which has always intrigued me and made me feel that a proper study of the subject, without fear or prejudice of the outcome, (on either side), would unearth a lot for all parties. (Not that you, Moofins, have not done this, just something interesting).
  • 03-30-2010, 11:41 AM
    WingedWolfPsion
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by mr. s View Post
    I said there are too many, not that I can't think of one. I chose a very simple one, space exploration.

    By doing this, though, you ignored my basic statement--there is nothing that humans do that is different in quality, rather than quantity, from what other animals can do. Space exploration is just tool use. Other animals make and use tools, so it doesn't qualify as being something different in QUALITY from what other species do.

    I'm challenging you to come up with some basic, fundamental trait that humans possess that no other animal does. Some way in which we are truly UNIQUE. Something that really does set us completely apart.

    Of course we are smarter than all other known species at present. We're smarter, cheetahs are faster, and elephants are bigger. That isn't a valid point as to why we are 'special' or 'different'.

    People have been trying to set humans apart from other animals for thousands of years, and every thing they have come up with to date has eventually been disproven. From tool use to self-awareness, language to creativity...it's all been knocked down by one species or another. I've seen so many statements over the years. "Humans are the only species that make war". No, chimps do that too, and in a surprisingly organized and sophisticated fashion.
    "Humans are the only species that kills for fun!"
    Dolphins do that. Elephants were doing that in Africa just recently.
    "Humans are the only species that has art!"
    Elephants draw in the dirt with sticks for amusement--in the wild, not just in captivity.
    "Humans are the only species that reveres their dead!"
    Elephants again--the behavior of elephants toward the bones of the fallen is remarkable.
    "Humans are the only species with spirituality!"
    This one is touchy, but Orcas have displayed a behavior that is extremely hard to interpret as anything else.
    The seal-hunting Orca pod in one part of the world enjoys an annual feast when the seals breed, and pups are learning to swim. They eat many seal pups, they play with the corpses, toss them around for hunting practice, and generally have a great time. Which is all very ordinary seeming.
    But at the end of the day, they take the last seal pup caught, and they toss it around just as before...but more gently. They make a great show and celebration of it, splashing around, and parading with it.
    Then one of the orcas carries the pup right up to the shore...and lets it go.

    Hey, maybe it isn't what it looks like. But we know their brains are huge, we know they're intelligent, creative, and self-aware. We know that the potential isn't out of the question. Until we learn to speak 'orca', we can't really ask them. (Since they literally see sounds, their communication has been a hard code for us to crack--can you imagine a language comprised partly of sonar pictures? Now imagine the pictures in 'shorthand'. They wouldn't always have to be 'shortened' the same way, either. The upper and lower ranges of their sounds are far beyond ours, so we can only 'hear' them with a computer. This may seem a bit fanciful, but it is a possibility that has yet to be explored--their sound processing centers in their brains are enormous, much larger than ours, and they have proven capable of understanding sentence ordering (ie, 'jump over the hoop, then touch the ball with your tail) for novel requests).
  • 03-30-2010, 01:41 PM
    mr. s
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion View Post
    Of course we are smarter than all other known species at present.

    Oh good, we agree.

    I even agree that there are smart animals. I agree with everything you said, and it means nothing to me to find something humans do on their own which animals do not do. I have agreed with you this whole time that animals are remarkable and can do some cool things. I am really not entirely clear why you have continued to bring that up. And the difference between quantity and quality is quite unclear, although I know what you are getting at. Humans surpass all other living creatures in both quality and quantity of tool use. Our tools are used more quantitatively, and they are superior qualitatively too. But yes, I get it, monkeys use sticks, I get it. It is like a snow flake and a glacier, they have the same chemical make-up, but a glacier just has a heck of a lot more.
    Humans are the smartest beings of which we have knowledge, as you accurately stated. This sets us apart. We are the glacier. I am going to even be a little crazy here and say that HUMANS can set themselves apart from other HUMANS! I see a difference between Albert Einstein and the town drunk. I think that made Einstein special and different, even among humans.

    I see your view point. You do not have to restate it. I think you see mine too. That is why I think we agree with one another. Neither of us have even read anything we have not heard before, so I don't know what the discussion is actually about.

    Thanks for the banter. Cheers.
  • 03-30-2010, 01:52 PM
    Big Gunns
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    BG is "way too analytical" himself....he's also way too lazy to get into this debate. Everyone knows BG just rolled outta bed.:D

    He will say that he has noticed that leeetle Leopard Geckos will poop in one side of the cage though. Does this count? How about the kitty cat that covers their poopy?:D
  • 03-30-2010, 02:01 PM
    mr. s
    Re: My brain is way too analytical.
    Hahahahaha.

    I am not sure we can include cats as intelligent animals.....
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