Neglected BP wants to eat me!

I've assumed responsibility of a BP that my roommate has left (now ex-roommate). I had not payed much attention to its feeding habits or methods, have not studied its mentality, but it turns out it's almost impossible to handle it. I pulled it out of its cage for the first time myself two nights ago. It must have been resting because it was not very reactive for a few moments. As it gained consciousness it was as a BP should be, curious and unaggressive. I handled it for a good 45 minutes. On two occasions when I laid it on the floor, I let it roll away for a minute and when I went to reach it, if I touched the upper 30% of it's body it would spring backwards like "OH MY GOD?!?!"

The next day I fed it. Had a frozen thawed adult mouse. The previous owner never pulled the snake out of the cage to feed in a separate container. I dropped the mouse in, and it was immediately interested. Took about 20 seconds for it to come up and snatch.

Tonight, about 18 hours after feeding now, I opened to cage to start handling as I'd like to handle more frequently, however this time it was awake (vs the first time when it seemed to be resting). It's mannerisms put me on caution and thankfully slow. It seemed way too interested in the position of my hand. I dropped my hand in hear it's tail and it sprung towards my hand mouth open. It had not problem with hands when it was outside of its cage. From what I've read up on the past month or so it sounds like it has associated the cage door opening with feeding or something very close to that practice. What can I do to tame this guy?

Use a hook to take the snake out. I have found that it is usually in first taking hold of the snake that problems with biting arise. You can make one out of an old coat hanger, (no sharp edges!).
Also, with time the snake should calm down if you make it regular and learn the "do's and don't's". For instance, be careful of the head area when picking it up, this startles them.
Also, if you took a picture of the enclosure, and told us temperatures, etc, we could tell you if this snake would be benefited by a change of environment. It sounds like you are just coming into snake keeping and may appreciate a few pointers.
Good luck, snakes are great.

I'd say if you just got it...let it be for about a week. Also, I recommend not handling after feeding, at least not for the first two days after taking a meal.

After that's done, handle it with a glove and hold it for 10-15 min a day (except after feeding, and increasing the handling time every other day) and it should get used to you in no time.:gj:

Honestly with a BP a snake hook shouldnt be needed. You should never handle a snake earlier than 2 days after they eat. You can make them regurge the meal. They need time to lay on the warm side and digest. Make sure the snake has the proper tight fitting hides in its enclosure. Proper temperature. @90 degrees on the hot side and 80 cool side. Humidity at about 60%.

If the housing requirements are correct, once you get the little guy on a weekly feeding schedule he will calm down. Feed a frozen thawed rodent about the same size around as the widest part of the snake. Once a week on the same day. He may not have been fed on a schedule and may be hungry and stressed.

Just give him some time to calm down. Once enough time has passed reach in and quickly scoop him up at a part of the body farthest from the head. I promise you the striking was just a feeding response. Once he is in you hands he should not try to bite you if you do not smell like rodent. If you are nervous about it just lay a small hand towel over him and scoop him up. Trust me. Getting bitten by a BP is nothing more than a paper cut. It scares you but it doesnt hurt.

If you have any other questions just ask. We can give you the info you need to know to take care of him. Im glad you decided to take care of him. Once you get to know him you will be hooked. They are addictive even you never were very intersted before :D

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I promise you the striking was just a feeding response.

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Foschi, why would you promise that this is a feeding response? Perhaps you know more about the situation than I, but as you know, that is not the only reason a bp bites....

maybe she was still hungry?

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Originally Posted by mr. s

Foschi, why would you promise that this is a feeding response? Perhaps you know more about the situation than I, but as you know, that is not the only reason a bp bites....

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Because if he was able to handle it the previous day and it was calm and inquisitive it makes sense. He went to handle it not even a day after feeding and it struck at him. Could have been stress. Could have been cranky at the thought of being bothered on a full stomach, but its more likely that it wanted more to eat. The act of digestion is more likely to keep a BP in feeding mode for a day. Most of the time a strike at you from within the enclousure is a feeding response when its a BP. Exceptions? Of course. A scared baby which strikes instead of balling up. It happens, but again, usually a feeding response from a young one. A sexually mature BP in breeding mode. Sure its possible.

There are always exceptions. Why call me out? Because I dont believe that a BP should be ever be hooked? I have snakes which do require hooking. Out of 30 BP's, some of which do not like to be handled at all, none have ever needed to be hooked. Why would you try to make matters worse for someone who has never cared for a BP and make it sound like a dangerous animal which could hurt them? Hook? Gloves?

I originally was not going to knock your advice. To tell someone to fashion a snake hook from an old coat hanger is IMO terrible advice. Especially for a BP. I welcome others opinions.

As for the OP. Do keep us updated.

Check out this recent thread on what its like to be bitten by a BP and how to overcome any nervousness..

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...d.php?t=115431

And here is a caresheet on BP's for everything you need to know about their care..

http://www.ball-pythons.net/modules/...warticle&id=59

I don't consider ball pythons to ever be aggressive. They almost always have a reason for striking or biting. Either they are exhibiting a strong feeding response (not being fed enough, close to feeding day) or they are terrified (big gigantic monster coming to pick me up). You would be scared too!

The best thing you can do is let the snake have some alone time and take it out for short 10-15 minute handling sessions. Over handling can stress it out.

Also, cage aggression is not a problem with this species. They are very shy, nervous snakes. As long as you go in the cage one other time during the week (lets say to clean or take the snake out) no association between "hand and food" will be made. If you feed outside the enclosure, your chance of getting bit goes up drastically. The more times you put your hand into the feeding process, the more opportunities your snake has to bite. I feed all my snakes in their home enclosures and I have never been bit (knock on wood!!). I never handle my snake on feeding day or two days after to allow for a digestion period. I don't handle my snakes when they are hungry. As long as you feed your snake enough and handle him a couple times a week, he should never associate your hand with being fed.

Not to mention being fed outside the home enclosure can become stressful for some ball pythons. Eating is a vulnerable time for them and they would prefer to be in an area they knew was safe rather then an empty plastic tub or bucket...

Foschi, no reason to get defensive. This is a forum where each person can express their opinions. I still stand by my advice for a hook, and I have no problem with you suggesting otherwise, that is why I did not mention anything previously, but if you are interested in my thinking, I am happy to elaborate. I remember the first snakes I kept, which were in tanks that were fairly tall, (foolishly), and at first I felt better taking my snakes out with a hook, including my bp. It helped me get used to things and feel comfortable with handling. Just recently, several years later, I got myself a very aggressive large female, which I don't use a hook for and with whom I have no trouble, because I have much more experience. I am not scared to recommend a hook to a new keeper who wants to get the hang of things, especially when I don't know the snakes situation. The owner will get more knowhow eventually as I did, learn to calm a snake down and not need a hook. I am sure that both you or I would have no trouble picking this little guy up ourselves, but I don't know Putrid. I never rejected your hook advice because I think I understand where you are coming from and to each their own. Either way is fine in the end.
As for the biting, you have already agreed that the snake may be in feeding mode, or there may be another cause, such as neglect or stress. My advice is not dependent on if the new keeper is scared of what I say, but on the truth. 'Mrgbb' put it well that MAYBE, it is still hungry. I agree with that fully, or, as you mentioned in your second post, maybe it is an array of different reasons. I just wondered why you were promising things instead of speculating, (which may be my science side coming out).
Please do not feel personally attacked, there is no hostility being directed at you whatsoever and I apologize that I may have been responsible of making you feel that way.
Yes, Putrid, keep us posted on how things are going.

Putrid186, I had a lot of trouble handling it when it was nippy cause I was nervous. Once I got past the nervousness of the new guy - the snake seemed to be less nervous too and in turn stopped tagging me.
I have no idea if this is actually something snakes can pick up. But mine does much better when I'm not anxious about handling it.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Why would you try to make matters worse for someone who has never cared for a BP and make it sound like a dangerous animal which could hurt them? Hook? Gloves?

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I don't see anything wrong with gloves?
I got tagged everyday getting the water dish for the first three weeks with my guy.
Then I got gloves.
I know they're never big cuts, but I've never been really comfortable with an animal breaking my skin.

I think about it like this.. snakes do come to recognize certain people. They become familier and relaxed with handling. We know they can see. We know they are shy and can be defensive. I believe if a glove is used to pick up a snake, you cant feel the exact amount of pressure you are using. If its a glove which is thick enough to block any teeth. A glove feels different to the snake than a bare hand as well. It looks different. it smells different etc..

For removing water bowls one can always use a small piece of cardboard, a hide, a towel, to block the snakes face and distract it. Just touching it with something will generally bring it out of feeding/defensive mode.

If the owner is nervous enough to want to use a glove, it should not be a permanant thing. It should also not be needed once the snake is lifted from the enclosure. I dont think its necessary when there are other, less stressful things that can be done but to each his own. These animals have a very calming affect. The faster an owner gains confidence and learns ways to calm the snake without causing stress, the faster they can interact with the snake and see how wonderful they really are.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

For removing water bowls one can always use a small piece of cardboard, a hide, a towel, to block the snakes face and distract it. Just touching it with something will generally bring it out of feeding/defensive mode.

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Ever get one of those moments where you go "how didn't I think of that?"
Yeah, I just got one of those :) Thank you, that will make life easier.

Taking the snake out of the tank was the issue at hand. I'd prefer to use gloves than a hook. I'm starting to question if I'll ever be able to go in glove free with this guy. (Or girl. It. Thing.) I take off the gloves when I sit down with the snake. But I'd rather the snake get used to the gloves than get tagged every time.

Thanks everyone for your responses so far! It's a wealth of information that i wouldn't have been able to find out on my own otherwise.

As far as "just getting it" I assumed responsibility recently but the cage itself has not been moved. My roommate is leaving the apartment and leaving the snake behind.

I'll give it another shot tomorrow with a glove. Any suggestions on a type of glove to use? This is kinda goofy but the only glove I really have is an oven glove which might be a bit cumbersome to handle the snake. As for pulling the snake out then I'd like to make it as calm as possible, so if it in fact does strike at my glove, should I continue to pull him out? Or should I maybe be waiting for it to figure out that it's not food?

Since the previous owner pretty much never pulled it out of the cage and judging from how it acted the day prior to feeding, I would agree that it is a feeding response. If he's awake and sees the lid slid open, his head is up and ready to strike, not to get out.

I'm about to purchase a new tank and accessories since the stress is probably way higher considering his enclosure. The heating is satisfactory but there is not a sufficient hide. It's one of those half-logs you see from Petco.

Thanks for the analogy with paper cuts. I knew that it wouldn't be something awful getting bitten but didn't think it was as insubstantial as a papercut! But I do really, really hate papercuts.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

If you feed outside the enclosure, your chance of getting bit goes up drastically. The more times you put your hand into the feeding process, the more opportunities your snake has to bite. I feed all my snakes in their home enclosures and I have never been bit

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Kaorte, What you suggest seems to contradict almost every resource I've seen in my research on handling procedures for a BP. Most resources suggest handling the snake outside of his main enclosure, and feeding in another. Using forceps seems to be a popular feeding method. Can anyone else back this up?

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Originally Posted by rockhardchick666

Ever get one of those moments where you go "how didn't I think of that?"
Yeah, I just got one of those :) Thank you, that will make life easier.

Taking the snake out of the tank was the issue at hand. I'd prefer to use gloves than a hook. I'm starting to question if I'll ever be able to go in glove free with this guy. (Or girl. It. Thing.) I take off the gloves when I sit down with the snake. But I'd rather the snake get used to the gloves than get tagged every time.

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Did you know that at Australia Zoo they use a garbage can lid? For the really big guys. They go in the enclosure of the burmese and keep it focused on the can lid. Move it from side to side and if the snake moves and tries to direct its attention on the handler they just keep the can lid directly in front of its face. If they are moving the snake a couple people grab the snake and start walking through the park while a third person holds the can lid and just keeps it in front of the snakes face. They walk along and its the lid holders job to keep the lid in front of the face and keep it distracted. Kind of like shield.

This way they never need to hold the snake behind the head which causes alot of stress and anger. They dont get bitten and they dont stress the snake either.

I'd never do it, but that would be quite the job!

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Originally Posted by Putrid186

Kaorte, What you suggest seems to contradict almost every resource I've seen in my research on handling procedures for a BP. Most resources suggest handling the snake outside of his main enclosure, and feeding in another. Using forceps seems to be a popular feeding method. Can anyone else back this up?

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Some people are very passionate about this idea of feeding in the enclosure and I am sure you will get a long explanation from a few that believe in it strongly and that it is bad for the snake to move it. In the end, I feel like it makes little difference. I will tell you of my personal experience though as I think that there is very little conclusive evidence on the subject.
Personally, until I had 10 snakes, I fed in a separate enclosure every time. The only reason I changed was for purposes of clean up. I had several happy healthy snakes that fed in a separate enclosure for years. When I decided to change over I found two things. First of all, some of my snakes were so trained to have a feed response based on being put in a separate container as opposed to the lid opening, that they WOULD NOT EVEN EAT in their own enclosure the first few times with a mouse in front of them, but when I put them in the container 30 seconds later, they would strike right away. That is how great their feeding response had been trained. I thought it was fantastic. I also saw, upon switching to feeding in their enclosure, on the negative side, that my snakes really do look up differently when I go to take them out normally. They have that feeding look rather than being indifferent. I have not yet been tagged, but I think it is directly associated. On another note, I have tamed some mean snakes which had been fed in the same enclosure all the time, and I believe that feeding them in another enclosure was key in calming them down.
On a side note, I remember watching a BHB video online wherein Brian spoke about the aggression of some of his snakes and how it was because they fed them all in their own enclosure. I just thought that to be very interesting. (BHB is a huge ball python breeding company and Brian is the owner).
Yes, forceps are popular to keep your hands out of the way.
Hope that is helpful.

Look man just try this. If your bp looks like hes in a defensive mode in the cage just take something and tap him gently on head. He will curl up in a ball and hide then u take hide off of him and just pick him up. Trust me :gj:

I always feed in the actual enclosure. They seem more secure, and I use tongs.

Now on to something that came up here: I suggested gloves because he seemed skittish about being bit. It doesn't hurt at all, but I know when I first started, I would jump when I was bit and was scared that I'd drop the baby, so I started wearing gloves.

I don't anymore as I can ignore it, but at the start I see nothing wrong with it...I don't use a hook, seems needless.
:snake:

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Originally Posted by f4n70m

Look man just try this. If your bp looks like hes in a defensive mode in the cage just take something and tap him gently on head. He will curl up in a ball and hide then u take hide off of him and just pick him up. Trust me :gj:

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He wasn't in his hide at the time. And as soon as my hand entered the cage he sprung for it, and after failing he was going right back up to do it again. I think I'll pass on this one ;)

Plus I really don't to stress him out by coming after his head.

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Originally Posted by Putrid186

He wasn't in his hide at the time. And as soon as my hand entered the cage he sprung for it, and after failing he was going right back up to do it again. I think I'll pass on this one ;)

Plus I really don't to stress him out by coming after his head.

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It's actually not a bad suggestion. I have used a roll of paper towels if cleaning to lightly touch them on the head, or a water bottle to lightly touch the top of their heads.

It really does seem to snap them out of it.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

It's actually not a bad suggestion. I have used a roll of paper towels if cleaning to lightly touch them on the head, or a water bottle to lightly touch the top of their heads.

It really does seem to snap them out of it.

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Yup, it sure does! :gj: When I first got my het albino, Orlando, he was a little terror... he'd literally strike at the tub whenever I walked too close, and would jerk his body back if I tried to hold him. I used either a simple piece of paper or the lid of his tub, just to snap him out of it, and handled him for 5-10 minutes a day. He's still a little jumpy compared to my other snakes, but 110% better than that first month - hasn't snapped or struck at me since. :) So it's all about patience with these guys, and they usually calm down once they realize you're not trying to eat them.

P.S. As for the feeding response, I feed all 17 of my snakes in their enclosures and haven't had a problem... I've been tagged three times altogether, two of which were shedding crankiness (other was a nervous hatchling). I can literally put the mouse next to them with bare hands, and nobody will snap at me. ;)

I know that while a lot of information out there says to feed in a seperate enclosure to avoid "feeding response".

I can tell you after trying it with both ways with multiple snakes, it is a lot easier to feed in their tub/tank.

My big female, even though she was handled regularly when it was not feeding day, became very hard to handle and aggressive when we moved her for feeding in a separate enclosure. She unfortunately never outgrew that aggression even when we stopped moving her.

With my eight new babies, I feed them all in their tubs, and not one of them has become even the slightest bit aggressive. I handle them twice a week around feeding day, and each and every one is just a little doll.

Does that mean people can't or shouldn't move for feeding ? No. But, it is easier for myself and my snakes, so guess what I'll go with easier every time.

My thinking is, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.


Gale

Thanks all for your help. The shock factor of gently tapping on the head actually works great as two of you had said it just snaps him out of feeding mode and doesn't seem to cause an major stress.

I did a couple of tests where I pulled him out and handled for about 10 minutes to let him relax. I placed him back in the cage and kept my hands in the cage for a few moments, sometimes taking them out and placing back in near him. There was no response. I closed the lid, walked away for about 2 minutes, came back and opened the lid and he went nuts again :rolleyes: So yeah, he definitely has associated the door opening with food time. Just will take a little while to tame I guess! Cheers! :carouse:

Good luck!:snake:

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Originally Posted by Putrid186

Thanks all for your help. The shock factor of gently tapping on the head actually works great as two of you had said it just snaps him out of feeding mode and doesn't seem to cause an major stress.

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lol see told u it would work ;) When we first got ours we would open the tub and he would stick his head out like he was ready to eat. Being as my son is still a little young he was afraid to just stick his hand in there. So Kaorte told me to just touch the head lightly and it worked :) (Hope you dont mind me giving u credit for the ideas i pass off :bow:)