Hasn't eaten since January

Hi! Ok, my western hognose male has refused food since the beginning of January. I don't have a scale at home unfortunately but he doesn't seem to be losing any weight. I got him in November 2009 from Vin Russo at Cutting Edge Herps during the White Plains Expo. So I'm guessing he's between 6-10 months old (am I guessing at this right?) I don't want him to have any health or development problems from his lack of eating. Has anyone tried assist feeding their hoggies? I'm tempted to try but being as he's so little I'm afraid I might hurt him. Any suggestions? This little guy is sooo cute but he's giving me ulcers :rolleyes: Thanks!

Erin

have you tried a small deli/worm cup and lid, sometime the dark small enclosures help them along......:8:

snakefreak64

p.s this works with all but one of my males lateley:rolleye2:, I guess they dont want balls to be the only finicky ones!!, good luck!!

Hey Erin,
Give me a rundown on how you are keeping him... Hot/cool side temps, size of cage and substrate being used...

Hi! I have tried the deli cup. Left him in there for about 5 hours or so. He just zips around the deli until I let him out. Last time he pooed in there, a lot of fun to clean up :rolleyes:

He's in a 10 gallon. 85 degrees on the hot side, 70 on the cool side. He's in aspen substrate about 3-4 inches deep. He has a hide and some plants but he doesn't really use them, just burrows. He has a water dish on the cool side. He definitely drinks because its always low in a few days and sometimes I see him soaking in there.

Hi,

Just a random idea from the terminally uninformed but have you tried a fake mouse nest?

Since he likes to burrow take one of the deli cups and bury it in the substrate with a hole in the lid and put some used mouse bedding and the pinky in it.

If the lid was opaque so it was nice and dark in there too it couldn't hurt I don't think.


dr del

I know next to nothing about hognoses, but I do think Derek's idea is excellent.

I had a new hatchling corn who refused to eat when we got him. Everyone was recommending the deli cup thing, but it just seemed to freak him out. Finally one time I decided to put a pinkie in his hide in his regular enclosure, and that was what finally did the trick. I think for this particular snake, the transfer to the strange deli cup was doing more to stress him than the small dark enclosure was doing to help him feel secure enough to eat. Yours might be the same.

From what I understand, that is quite common in male Hognoses... that's actually one reason I got a female, since I was warned the boys go off feed in winter. Not sure what else to say, except that you shouldn't worry too much - unless he starts looking extremely thin, or doesn't go back to feeding in spring. :oops:

P.S. They do supposedly have a thing for toads & frogs, so if all else fails, you can rub a mouse on a toad... that sounds so funny, LOL. :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NYDragon

He's in a 10 gallon. 85 degrees on the hot side, 70 on the cool side.

---

In my opinion based on my experience and the experience of a bunch of other hognose breeders, this is a bit on the cool side...

I would bump the hot spot up to about 92 degrees and have the cool side/ambient air temps between 78 and 80 degrees...

Hogs do like it much warmer than other North American colubrid species... In other words, they should not be kept like corn snakes...

It is not normal for males or females to go off feed at any time of the year other than brumation and breeding... All of my males feed year round... I attribute this to the fact they are kept with high basking temps and ambients up to 80 degrees..

Don't have much hognose experience as the one I have now is my first. but just offering what I've noticed with her..
she's handled enough, but seems at times she's already in a mood if she's disturbed too much while diggin around trying to find her *under her aspen*, then when I offer her pinky she's too irriated to eat. And if I keep offering she'll huff at me. But if I have her pinky ready, and quickly uncover her (but slowly) she'll usually take it. if it takes too long I can try again later but usually she's not gonna take it until the next day. But maybe just her.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gregg Madden

In my opinion based on my experience and the experience of a bunch of other hognose breeders, this is a bit on the cool side...

I would bump the hot spot up to about 92 degrees and have the cool side/ambient air temps between 78 and 80 degrees...

Hogs do like it much warmer than other North American colubrid species... In other words, they should not be kept like corn snakes...

It is not normal for males or females to go off feed at any time of the year other than brumation and breeding... All of my males feed year round... I attribute this to the fact they are kept with high basking temps and ambients up to 80 degrees..

---

Yeah, I wasn't sure if the temps were right or not. There is so much conflicting info out there. I'm having a hard time getting the ambient temps up. Good ole NY weather. I have foam board on three sides and 3/4 of the top covered but still staying around 70 degrees.

I tried feeding him last Monday and he refused but still looked good. I left him alone until yesterday. I took him out and he looked thinner than last week and a little wrinkly. I put him in some lukewarm water and he drank for about 30 secs. Weird since he had a full water dish in his cage. I tried offering him food again but no luck. I did notice a little black mite though. First time I've seen that. So off to the vet today. I'm just not sure what is going on with him. He's making me a nervous wreck!

Well the vet thought he was just slightly underweight too but not too bad. Jasper looked good otherwise and he couldn't find any mites. He gave him a dose of Panacur and metronidazole(sp?). Hopefully he does ok with this. I'll try and feed him Friday and see how it goes. I'm also worried because he hasn't shed since I got him. Not that I've noticed anyway and I'm pretty sure I would have. Any ideas on the lack of shedding?

I would give Vin a call, I'm sure he'd have some valuable input.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NYDragon

He gave him a dose of Panacur and metronidazole(sp?).

---

This is exactly why my animals will never go to a vet...

How or why a vet would dose a reptile with worming meds and antibiotics without knowing if there is even a problem to be treated, is beyond my understanding... Most of the time these unnecessary doses of meds do more harm than good...

In all honesty, I think you could have avoided the vet bill because the vet pretty much told you what you already knew... Seriously, heat that animal up and make sure he is well hydrated and you will see a big turn-around...

Well so far so good. Not that its a guarantee on a vet knowing what they are doing, but he is on the herpvetconnection list. I wish I had been able to get a fecal sample to bring in for testing rather than just treating him though.

He actually shed tonight though :) First time since I've had him. I was quite excited. I ran around downstairs with him yelling "We have a shed" :rolleyes: I did stick him back in some warm water and he drank a little. The shed was a little stuck on his tail so I helped him with that and then he was quite active. Hopefully he eats tomorrow. And I bumped those temps up a bit. Thanks for the advice on that.

Without making any assumptions about your set-up, I'm going to parrot the advice of others and offer some of my own:

You got this snake November and it ate for you twice. You also have him in a ten gallon tank. This is correct - no?

(1) As has been pointed out - bump his temps up. I keep my hognose at hotspot temps well above 90 degrees.

(2) Some male western hogs just aren't great eaters, however, in order to find out what type of eater your animal is you need to get those temps up.

(3) You need to weigh you animal on a regular basis. Eyeballing him and making guesstimates on his weight is futile. I've had male hoggies go off feed for three months and lose very little weight.

(4) The fact that he is not drinking and not eating could possibly indicate he is not secure. A 10 gallon glass tank is open on all four sides. While I am down to only one mexican now, in the past I have kept all my young male hoggies in shoebox or smaller sized tubs, enclosed on at least three sides. The partially stuck shed also is an indicator that he may be stressed.

(5) Westerns don't shed as much as other snakes. One time I did an average yearly shed count on my male nasicus and kennerlyi and figured out that they were shedding on an average of 4 to 5 times per year.

(6) What are you doing in the way of hides? Timid animals will often require more than just substrate to burrow in.

(7) Any Vet who prophylactically treats an animal for a disease he has not diagnosed is not one I would use in the future - regardless of who he was recommended by. Giving your animal panacur and flagyl without any symptoms other that going off feed (in winter) is something that would raise a definite red flag for me. Also, it puts the animal through needless stress.

(8) I would give him more security, privacy and heat. Spend a few bucks on a decent scale and see how much weight he loses during his fast. If making him feel more secure and warming him up don't help, and he's losing an unacceptable amount of weight - then you can start contemplating another vet visit.

id like to second some of what skip has said. i have a female that hasn't eatten sence nov 09. this is her routine and does it every year. unless the animal starts to look sick then its nothing to worry about. i have herd of fasting hogs from several different people.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lucas339

i have herd of fasting hogs from several different people.

---

I think it has to do with the fact that many hognose keepers keep them like they do other North American colubrids... They require much more heat and dryer conditions... They also eat much more frequently than other colubrids...

I have 7 hogs at the moment... None of them ever miss a meal... The many I kept in the 90's never went off feed either... I am certain it has much to do with temps...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gregg Madden

I think it has to do with the fact that many hognose keepers keep them like they do other North American colubrids... They require much more heat and dryer conditions... They also eat much more frequently than other colubrids...

I have 7 hogs at the moment... None of them ever miss a meal... The many I kept in the 90's never went off feed either... I am certain it has much to do with temps...

---

At one point I had 2 male nasicus and 4 females and 3 male kennerlyi and 3 females.

Every November, regardless of the fact that I did not brumate my hogs or change their enclousure temps, the majority of the juvenile and especially adult males would go off feed. I get the same behavior out of my other colubrids - especially the cribos.

Around February, the males would all be back on feed. While temperature plays a huge role in reptile mating and eating behaviors, I think it also has to do with the changes in barometric pressure. Barometric pressure has been shown to play a much larger role in reptile behavior than previously realized.........

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

While temperature plays a huge role in reptile mating and eating behaviors, I think it also has to do with the changes in barometric pressure. Barometric pressure has been shown to play a much larger role in reptile behavior than previously realized.........

---

This I agree with 100%... I know when I bred my gaboons would copulate when thunderstorms rolled through my area... I do believe it triggers breeding more than feeding... But, I would imagine that some localities would be affected by barometric pressure more so than others as far as feeding goes...

I guess maybe some bloodlines might be stronger feeders than others... My current stock is from Brad Chambers, Brent Bumgardner, and Clarles Shanklin... Like I said, I have had no problem feeders within my hog collections over the years either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skiploder

Without making any assumptions about your set-up, I'm going to parrot the advice of others and offer some of my own:

You got this snake November and it ate for you twice. You also have him in a ten gallon tank. This is correct - no?

(1) As has been pointed out - bump his temps up. I keep my hognose at hotspot temps well above 90 degrees.

(2) Some male western hogs just aren't great eaters, however, in order to find out what type of eater your animal is you need to get those temps up.

(3) You need to weigh you animal on a regular basis. Eyeballing him and making guesstimates on his weight is futile. I've had male hoggies go off feed for three months and lose very little weight.

(4) The fact that he is not drinking and not eating could possibly indicate he is not secure. A 10 gallon glass tank is open on all four sides. While I am down to only one mexican now, in the past I have kept all my young male hoggies in shoebox or smaller sized tubs, enclosed on at least three sides. The partially stuck shed also is an indicator that he may be stressed.

(5) Westerns don't shed as much as other snakes. One time I did an average yearly shed count on my male nasicus and kennerlyi and figured out that they were shedding on an average of 4 to 5 times per year.

(6) What are you doing in the way of hides? Timid animals will often require more than just substrate to burrow in.

(7) Any Vet who prophylactically treats an animal for a disease he has not diagnosed is not one I would use in the future - regardless of who he was recommended by. Giving your animal panacur and flagyl without any symptoms other that going off feed (in winter) is something that would raise a definite red flag for me. Also, it puts the animal through needless stress.

(8) I would give him more security, privacy and heat. Spend a few bucks on a decent scale and see how much weight he loses during his fast. If making him feel more secure and warming him up don't help, and he's losing an unacceptable amount of weight - then you can start contemplating another vet visit.

---

He has eaten probably 5-7 times since I've gotten him. And he is in a 10 gallon. I have three sides covered with foam board. He has two hides but rarely uses them. He just burrows down. I did notice he burrowed under the deli container last night so I'm going to get him some cork board to put near the bottom of the tank for him. Maybe he'll like that better.

I bumped the temps up to 90 give or take. But I think I'm going to up it by a few degrees more. Now that I think of it, he was eating better when the weather was warmer. Once the icky NY temps dropped to artic conditions he went off food.

He is drinking but when I had put him in some warm water he did take a few gulps. Not sure if he just decides the warm water would be really refreshing or what lol

Oh and he's a whopping 16 grams. I do have to buy a gram scale. And I agree that sometimes these "reptile" vets don't really know what they are doing. I should have stopped him but I was been so overwhelmed with so many things (snake and others) going on that I wasn't thinking. When I got home I was worried that this would be hard on his system.

He wouldn't eat again last night. I put the pinkie in his mouth and he just spit it out. Then I just left the pinkie in a deli and buried it in the substrate like someone suggested. But conveniently I found him burrowed beneath the the deli directly under the pinkie :rolleyes: Hopefully another week at higher temps will encourage him to eat.

Here's a pic of him just for fun. He's too adorable.


http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/100_2538.jpg

http://i872.photobucket.com/albums/a...n/100_2533.jpg

Thanks for all the help guys! I really appreciate it!

You guys are awesome! He finally ate tonight. :D I left him with the pinkie for about an hour or so in a deli buried under the substrate. I came back expecting to find the pinkie there, but not so! I thought maybe I was missing something because he didn't have a lump in his tummy but he must have eaten it. About what size should I move him up to fuzzies? Again, thanks so much for everyone's help!

Erin

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by NYDragon

You guys are awesome! He finally ate tonight. :D I left him with the pinkie for about an hour or so in a deli buried under the substrate. I came back expecting to find the pinkie there, but not so! I thought maybe I was missing something because he didn't have a lump in his tummy but he must have eaten it. About what size should I move him up to fuzzies? Again, thanks so much for everyone's help!

Erin

---

That's great news!

My son's little mexican hognose just started eating again last month after going shutty on us for a few months. He's about 60 grams and is now pounding a small fuzzy every four days.

Well, he's only 16 grams so I guess I'll stick with the pinkies for now. Is once a week enough for him or should I try to feed more often?

Congratulations Erin!! I just stumbled on your thread and I'm glad to read the good news that your hognose is eating again. I do bet it was the temps. My larger male western hognoses don't care about the temperature drops, but the baby girls wouldn't eat for a week when I bought them, so I brought up the temperatures and they began their ravenous escapade!

My baby girl hognoses I feed them every 2-5 days, depends on the size of the meal I offer them. I also let them guide me. If they are scouring their house, they want food. If they smeared their pooh all over the walls, they want food. Some will stop eating when full, though some can keep on chowing down (like us people). It is a good plan to feed them 10-15% of their body weight as frequent as 3-4 days when they are teeny tiny like your guy and my girls.

p.s. I just weighed my baby girls (probably hatched July-Aug-Sept 2009), they are 16 gm and 23 gm. They both have doubled their weight since December!

congrats.
yeah, my hognose just started eating again on friday.
have to love the winter time:rolleyes:

Mine just ate again last week after shedding, 3 months to the day since his last meal.