Someone is selling me a Red-Tail Boa... but it has a lump...

Long story short, there's a guy that lives in a city 30 minutes away from where I live. He's selling his 6ft Red Tail Boa for $250. I wanted to take a look at it first so we met up. Come to find out... the boa has a small "lump" under her head on the right side, he said she's had it since he can remember and she doesnt have trouble eating or anything. I handled her and she's VERY sweet and calm. He said she's been eating a large rat every 1-2 weeks.

This guy owns a lot of snakes, retics, pythons, burmese, etc. He also breeds his own rats. He said he was running out of room and needs to get rid of her.

Now the question is... what do you guys/gals think the lump is? And is that price good for this snake? I attached a few photos of my friend holding her. You can see the lump on the third photo.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/7129/nagini3.jpg
http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/5237/nagini2.jpg
http://img169.imageshack.us/img169/7137/nagini1.jpg

Well, first off, she is absolutely beautiful. That's for sure. She looks very healthy, too. I would probably take her to the vet to get it checked out, it might just be a growth that she's had for awhile. But it could also be a tumor, cause you don't know how much it's grown. So definatly get it checked out.

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Abscesses. An abscess is a pocket of bacterial infection, which in snakes may appear as a firm lump. Pus formed by snakes is solid, unlike the liquid pus formed by mammals. Because the pus cannot be drained, an abscess may require surgical, as well as medical therapy. Abscesses can be just a millimeter or two in diameter, or can grow very large. They may have a scab on the top. These bacterial infections can form at the site of a bite from live prey, cage mates or parasites. In these cases the bite mark may be obvious.

It is also common for snakes to develop many small abscesses within or just under unbroken skin. These are more easily felt than seen. If the infection did not arrive through external trauma, such as a bite, scratch or burn wound, it must have arrived internally. Frequently, skin infection is the outward manifestation of a more serious internal problem, septicemia, or blood poisoning. In these cases, the bacterium that causes the abscesses has been disseminated throughout the body, although we may only see the effects on the skin.

The source of bacteria is usually the snake himself or the prey. Most bacteria, given the right conditions and a host with a weakened immune system, are capable of causing some sort of disease. Some of the bacteria found on and in the body of a healthy, normal snake have the potential to be particularly dangerous. One of the best known is Salmonella. Potentially dangerous bacteria are also found in the snake's mouth, his digestive tract and waste. Some are found in the blood stream. When the environment is clean and well suited to the species, a snake in good health will not usually become ill; his immune system keeps the bacteria in check. Usually as a secondary invader, fungi can also become involved, complicating an already serious condition. Bacterial and fungal skin infections are generally related to a husbandry problem and should be treated by a veterinarian.

Blister disease is a life-threatening condition in which fluid-filled pockets form under the scales, lifting the scales. The surrounding skin may be abnormally pink, red or moist. These blisters are painful and are prime entry points for bacteria and fungus. Blister disease is largely due to improper husbandry. Usually the environment is inadequately heated, too moist or too dirty. Some bacterial or viral infections cause inflammation of blood vessels, interfering with normal circulation. The resulting fluid build-up can appear similar to blister disease. It is important to inspect the underside of your snake for irregularities in the color and normally smooth, dry contour of the large belly scales.

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:tears: I really liked her.

What would be a fair way to go about it if I did decide to buy her? Ask him to take her to the vet first? Ask him for money back guarantee if she gets sick from it?

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Originally Posted by midtx350z

:tears: I really liked her.

What would be a fair way to go about it if I did decide to buy her? Ask him to take her to the vet first? Ask him for money back guarantee if she gets sick from it?

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A trip to the vet + expenses for tests (depending on what they are) might cost as much as he is trying to sell her for. So, I doubt he will be willing to give her a medical prior to sale.

Asking for a money-back guarantee might be feasible, but it will depend on the guy. If you politely express your concern about the lump, and tell him that you plan to pay for a trip to the vet after the purchase, he might be understanding and go for it. After all, if he is really sure it is nothing and she has had it since he can remember, than why not give the guarantee? On that note, at the time of sale (prior to cash changing hands), ask for a receipt with the guarantee listed on it.

If he balks at the suggestion, than as much as you might like her, I'd take it as an indication that everything may not be as simple as it seems.

When I bought my BP he was raised on live rats, but I indicated to the seller that I wanted to switch to F/T. He happily gave me a money-back guarantee if he did not switch, and even gave the option of returning him so the he could switch him over if I wanted. (It was a tough battle, but I eventually got him to switch. hehe)

She does look absolutely stunning, but go with your gut.

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Originally Posted by NightLad

A trip to the vet + expenses for tests (depending on what they are) might cost as much as he is trying to sell her for. So, I doubt he will be willing to give her a medical prior to sale.

Asking for a money-back guarantee might be feasible, but it will depend on the guy. If you politely express your concern about the lump, and tell him that you plan to pay for a trip to the vet after the purchase, he might be understanding and go for it. After all, if he is really sure it is nothing and she has had it since he can remember, than why not give the guarantee? On that note, at the time of sale (prior to cash changing hands), ask for a receipt with the guarantee listed on it.

If he balks at the suggestion, than as much as you might like her, I'd take it as an indication that everything may not be as simple as it seems.

When I bought my BP he was raised on live rats, but I indicated to the seller that I wanted to switch to F/T. He happily gave me a money-back guarantee if he did not switch, and even gave the option of returning him so the he could switch him over if I wanted. (It was a tough battle, but I eventually got him to switch. hehe)

She does look absolutely stunning, but go with your gut.

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Thanks a LOT for your input. I'll give it a try tomorrow and see what he says.

Here's another photo
http://img52.imageshack.us/img52/2482/nagini4.jpg

Take her to a Vet before you pay for her. It probably is nothing but if it is not nothing you are in for both expense and heartbreak.

Sort of like buying a car, have the mechanic check it first, THEN decide what you're willing to pay. You do, however, get to foot the bill for the checkup.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Take her to a Vet before you pay for her. It probably is nothing but if it is not nothing you are in for both expense and heartbreak.

Sort of like buying a car, have the mechanic check it first, THEN decide what you're willing to pay. You do, however, get to foot the bill for the checkup.

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How much would you say a checkup would run on average?
How far is a checkup from a regular vet visit? I'm sure the vet isn't going to tell me exactly what it is unless I pay for a full visit... He may tell me if the snake is worth buying?

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Originally Posted by midtx350z

How much would you say a checkup would run on average?
How far is a checkup from a regular vet visit? I'm sure the vet isn't going to tell me exactly what it is unless I pay for a full visit... He may tell me if the snake is worth buying?

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That one I couldn't tell you. You might try asking Gus @ riobravoreptiles.com, at least I think that's his site, what he thinks about it. Or PM Jimisnakes here, he's a boa breeder and really knows his stuff.

As far as Vet costs and all that, it varies to much to even try to tell you. Maybe call around and see if they'll give you an estimate on a general checkup and then one more involved.

Does the guy have any pictures of the snake when it was younger showing the lump?

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Originally Posted by wilomn

That one I couldn't tell you. You might try asking Gus @ riobravoreptiles.com, at least I think that's his site, what he thinks about it. Or PM Jimisnakes here, he's a boa breeder and really knows his stuff.

As far as Vet costs and all that, it varies to much to even try to tell you. Maybe call around and see if they'll give you an estimate on a general checkup and then one more involved.

Does the guy have any pictures of the snake when it was younger showing the lump?

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I went ahead and PMed Jimisnakes...
There's only one place that deals with reptiles locally... I can already imagine their prices.

He showed me a lot of pictures of all his snakes (including the one he's selling me) but they were all pretty recent. I'll ask, to see if it's been growing over time.

I have seen this twice from volunteering at a reptile sanctuary (we get in sick animals often) and one of the red tails that I didn't see had an abscess and our albino Burmese had an abscess.

I also had seen that big lump on a sick Green Anaconda with an RI, but the lump was very squishy from the mucus. He was one of the many snakes from the Texas seizure. He also could've had IBD by the way he twisted his head and neck. We did euthanize him because he did not get any better in our care and I think it only ate once with us.

I'm not saying the snake has an RI or has IBD. I don't have too much experience with abscesses but since I actually had a chance to feel one on the Anaconda it was very squishy from all the mucus in its throat (I guess maybe it isn't an abscess). So if you do decide to get the boa, I would definitely get a vet checkup for medication if needed. But have the owner take it to the vet since it's still in his care and he shouldn't sell you a sick boa.

This would be a lot better and easier if there was a vet on the site who actually knew stuff and told us what we have to do if a reptile looks sick or now LOL

It just looks like a fatty abscess to me. A vet check wouldn't hurt, but I don't think it's life threatening. A friend of mine has a ghost male that has one. Hundreds of dollars at the vet and it's still there. I'm not saying that this is what it is, but I'm pretty sure. When you go to get her, push on it a little. If it doesn't seem to hurt her and it's not solid and hard then that's most likely the issue.

Vet checkups are usually around 40-60 and it's always a good thing to do regardless of noticeable health issues.

I sped-read and missed the part where the guy wants $250....lol. I'd stay clear for that price. There's plenty of breeders who can sell you a Boa shipped for less than that...and offer a health guarantee.

Just remember, snakes don't usually show signs of illness. It's a fact of nature. Don't show your weakness. Is this such a drop dead best deal of the century, that you have to have this snake? I would step back two steps, look at the situation and make the decision based on fact, not emotion.

You never know when you buy a snake. It could be healthy for years, or it could be sickly until its death.

One question is, why is the guy selling it?

Good Luck!
Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

Just remember, snakes don't usually show signs of illness. It's a fact of nature. Don't show your weakness. Is this such a drop dead best deal of the century, that you have to have this snake? I would step back two steps, look at the situation and make the decision based on fact, not emotion.

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That is good advice. Remember that after the vet+tests, you could end up paying double the price. Maybe more, depending on the course of treatment.

A rule of thumb about lumps: "hard = tumour, soft = abscess/cyst." (Not meant to be a substitute for medical treatment. Always check with your doctor!)

My BP got bit in the eye by a mouse and I took him to a herp-specialist vet who owns a private practice in addition to working with the local Zoo.

The visit + medication + a fecal test (which I meant to do anyway because he was raised on live) cost nearly $300 (Canadian). That was without any invasive procedure. At best, if this lump turned out to be a cyst or abscess, it may be treatable with non/limited invasive therapy. However, if it is something more serious, that might even need surgery, you could easily be talking about a lot more $. Think along the lines of several times the cost of the snake.

If you really feel that this is the snake for you, than go with your gut. However, get that money-back guarantee, and understand that even if you need to make use of it you will still be out the $ from the vet visit/tests. (And as others have pointed out, that $ may equal the price of a snake from a breeder that can assure optimal health.)

Good luck to you!

Could be scar tissue if it flattens out and is soft when squeezed down. I have a snake with an internal scar an learned this fron Dr. Stahl one of the best snake vets there is. Then again it could be several other things!

The reality is the price is way too much as Jimi said you can do much better from a reputable source.

He just emailed me this:
"I have no problem taking her to the vet and getting her checked. But the price will go up to 320. I use a to z vet they r the only vet that specialize in reptiles. I guarantee the health of my snakes. If you have any questions call after 7. Also the small red tail is already sold. Thanks!"

No go?
Any good breeders in Texas?

riobravoreptiles.com

Talk to Gus.

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Originally Posted by midtx350z

He just emailed me this:
"I have no problem taking her to the vet and getting her checked. But the price will go up to 320. I use a to z vet they r the only vet that specialize in reptiles. I guarantee the health of my snakes. If you have any questions call after 7. Also the small red tail is already sold. Thanks!"

No go?
Any good breeders in Texas?

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It is good to hear that he guarantees the health of his animals (get that in writing on a receipt if you buy), and it is good that he is willing to take her to a vet -- at your expense, which is only fair since you are requesting it. However, understand that he is only quoting the base-fee of the vet visit, and not any tests or treatments that they may recommend.

Unless this is an extremely obvious condition, most doctors I know would hesitate to make a diagnosis without a test to back it up.

So basically he is offering to sell you the snake, and take her to the vet for you (IE: time and gas, which he may or may not be factoring in to the cost).

I’m assuming that unless she fails the physical than the snake would be deemed healthy and the transaction would be considered complete.

If you do go this route make sure to ask for a copy of the vet report. After all, you will be paying for it. I’d personally find it important to know that A) the growth is not malignant and B) that if it is benign, if it may pose future problems, such as with feeding.

Ultimately the decision has to be yours, but if I were in your position I would ask myself the following:

1) If the vet gives the snake a clean bill of health and it turns out that the lump is benign (non-threatening), will it matter to me that the snake has it?
2) If the vet gives the snake a clean bill of health but the lump is treatable (IE: abscesses or cyst) or may cause issues in the future, will I want to pay extra $ to treat it?
3) If the growth is malignant (tumour) how quickly can I get my refund minus the fee for the vet visit? ;P
4) Despite my attraction to this particular snake, should I hold off until I visit some more breeders that may have guaranteed healthy animals for less $?

I wish you the best in coming to a decision.