Infertile eggs

Alright, so I have a female who was on day 49 after her pre-lay shed. Well, she just laid a clutch of 8 PERFECT looking eggs yesterday. I took them out and candled them only to find that they are ALL infertile. There are no veins in any of them, however there is what looks to be almost a blood pocket inside all but 1 of them.
So I have 2 questions here. First, what do you think is the main reason for perfectly good, healthy looking eggs to be infertile? Second, what are you're opinions on the "blood pockets" in the eggs?
This same female gave me 7 good FERTILE eggs last year, so I'm just confused about what may have caused this to happen.
Thanks guys

Post a picture of the eggs being candled. :)

Yes post pictures and I hope you put them in the incubator anyway.

One of our moderators had some tricky looking eggs last season. They didnt look fertile when candled but they hatched. Sometimes you cant see the veins.

Sometimes even the eggs that look bad - brown or boob eggs - turn out to be good.

Alright I took some pics of a few of them, you can't see quite as clearly as you can in person, but you get the idea of what it is I'm seeing. I did throw them in the incubator just in case..... I still have a glimmer of hope until they're shriveled and obviously gone:please:.
In the first I can almost see what might be teeny tiny veins branching out from the "blood pocket"
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/P3170757.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/P3170753.jpg
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...e/P3170752.jpg

Try to candle from underneath the egg or use a light with a different color bulb. Like daylight bulb or a blue bulb. That top one looks good to me. Sometimes its just the position/color of the light in relation to where the sack is inside the egg. I wouldnt give up on them.

If they're not slugs, I incubate them. I don't even bother candling. Don't really see a point to be honest. If it goes bad in the incubator that's that. I have a pretty good hatch rate though so far.

Can you candle snake eggs that early?

I only ask because I used to breed birds, and it always took three or four days after being laid before you could candle them reliably.

Gale

Candle them from the side and look at the top and opposite side. From the pics it looks like a) the light is too big or b) it is not pushed against the egg hard enough. I can see some veins on the sides where it turns darker in the pics.

Also could you post some pics of the eggs in regular light. Your first pic I can see a vein and what looks to be a wet spot on the egg in the bottom right corner.

They don't look like they will make it to me. However, as many have stated, put them in the bator anyway, as it is always better to be safe than sorry.

In regards to your last question in the original post about what happened. My guess would be that the male either didn't transfer sperm to the dame, he is infertile or the sperm never made it to the ova to fertilize them. I don't think it had anything to do with the female.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by muddoc

They don't look like they will make it to me. However, as many have stated, put them in the bator anyway, as it is always better to be safe than sorry.

In regards to your last question in the original post about what happened. My guess would be that the male either didn't transfer sperm to the dame, he is infertile or the sperm never made it to the ova to fertilize them. I don't think it had anything to do with the female.

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Well, you were right, they didn't make it even a week before they were all starting to rot:(. I've got another female who just had her pre-lay shed, so I'm hoping those are fertile!
The pairing from the infertile eggs was the same as last year so I know that male is fertile. I'm still perplexed by the "blood pockets" inside the eggs. It almost looked like they were fertile at one point and then died before being laid...... I don't know...... I guess that's what makes this hobby interesting, there are ups and downs, hopefully the rest of the season will be more on the up side..... c'mon het clown X het clown eggs:banana:

Still it's amazing how a perfect good looking egg can be infertile. So what is exactly the difference between a slug and a infertile egg except for the differences in dimensions/colours.
And how can a female know by not coiling them... :confused:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MATTI

Still it's amazing how a perfect good looking egg can be infertile. So what is exactly the difference between a slug and a infertile egg except for the differences in dimensions/colours.
And how can a female know by not coiling them... :confused:

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There is a section in the Barker's recent Ball Python book that discusses Dystocia (egg laying trouble). In it they talk about theories about how the female knows when to lay eggs. They believe that htere is a chemical release by the egg (similar to how baby horses tell the mother they are ready to come out) that tells the female that there oxygen requirements are not being met anymore. This is believe to trigger the egg laying process.

My theory would be that if this is the case, it is possible that the female did not get a response from that egg (i.e. no chemical release, scent or some other cue), and that indicates to her that the egg is infertile, and she would not want to waste energy incubating that egg.

Just my .02,

Was your boy young? If she gave you good eggs before it's not her issue.

Too bad the eggs were no good :(

Wow did no one read what was said by the OP? This is the exact same pairing as last year from what the OP says... Same male same female... I actually had something similar to this happen to me this year. The eggs were laid with no outer shell, like one solid window, I could see everything in the egg but mine had veins, they molded within a few days and I knew they were not going to make it. Other than that not sure what went wrong... I hope someone gets some ideas on your problem as well as mine. Good luck on the het. clown x het. clown.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by muddoc

In regards to your last question in the original post about what happened. My guess would be that the male either didn't transfer sperm to the dame, he is infertile or the sperm never made it to the ova to fertilize them. I don't think it had anything to do with the female.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by tattlife2001

Wow did no one read what was said by the OP? This is the exact same pairing as last year from what the OP says... Same male same female... I actually had something similar to this happen to me this year. The eggs were laid with no outer shell, like one solid window, I could see everything in the egg but mine had veins, they molded within a few days and I knew they were not going to make it. Other than that not sure what went wrong... I hope someone gets some ideas on your problem as well as mine. Good luck on the het. clown x het. clown.

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I'm guessing that you did not read all of the responses, because I clearly posted 2 other options besides male infertility, that could have produced the given outcome. In case you can't find it, I reposted it above.

In regards to your statement about a large windowed egg, that is a completely different problem. That sounds to me like your female did not feel that she had the stored energy to full shell the eggs. There was a lack of calcium on the eggs, and while your egg had veins, it lacked the protective barrier to keep out infection or disease. The lack of a shell meant that the very permeable membrane that was left holding the egg together could easily have let in microorganisms that detroyed the fertile eggs.

I hope that helps,

muddoc I did read all of your replies and that was not directed at you. As to the information you provided thank you for that. I am going to give her another year and see what happens. I know there are various reasons for what happened to them. I do have other eggs that are cooking so where I did lose one clutch I have not lost any others so I still have hope for this year.