» Site Navigation
0 members and 721 guests
No Members online
Most users ever online was 47,180, 07-16-2025 at 05:30 PM.
» Today's Birthdays
» Stats
Members: 75,905
Threads: 249,105
Posts: 2,572,111
Top Poster: JLC (31,651)
|
-
Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
As a mailman/ball python breeder, the question has come to me many times, "Why doesn't the postal service ship snakes?" The best answer I could come up with is that Benjamin Franklin, the first Post Master General, decided not to allow snake shipping. In my opinion, that’s not a great answer. Interestingly enough, I cannot find any regulations, other than posters at the post office, that state "no snakes" or "no reptiles". I will be attempting to use the postal service for snake shipments in the future, because, like ups and fed ex, it seem that it is up to the discretion of the local Post Master/Manager.
My question is: Would it be detrimental or profitable for the postal service or the herp community if the postal service OPENLY shipped reptiles?
Here are two sides of that coin:
Given the current controversy of shipping snakes state to state (I know it shouldn't even be a controversy), openly announcing that the postal service would ship these animals may cause an up rise and an awareness of the controversy itself, and may make people who are (for no reason) afraid of snakes or snake haters come out against, both the postal service, and the herp community, in turn, pushing legislation through that bands inter-state travel of certain snakes and also driving the postal service's bottom line even farther in debt.
or
Would it be a great move for the postal service, tapping into a multi-billion dollar industry. Given that the postal service provides the least expensive shipping on anything. That, coupled with more competition with UPS and Fed Ex, would drive down the cost of shipping snakes, which would make more people willing to purchase snakes, driving the herp community's profits up, and allowing more people to get into the herp trade.
I don't think it would be helpful for one and not the other, or hurtful for one and not the other, but there are four poll options any way, just to see what your opinions are.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
First of all, if you choose to ship through the USPS, it is a violation of the Lacey act, and you would be guilty of a felony on a Federal level.
Secondly, we do not allow discussions about intent to commit an illegal activity, which you have just done by stating that you plan to ship snakes illegally.
Rest assured, that you've probably just been added to a lot of members "do not buy from" list by stating that you intend to fraudulently and illegally ship snakes through the USPS - especially since the person RECEIVING the snakes would also be guilty of a felony.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
DOH! Don't I feel like an idiot...wrong addy, apologies
http://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/601.htm#wp1103548
Paragraph 8.5b
8.5 Harmful Matter—General
Except as provided in this document, any article, composition, or material is nonmailable if it can kill or injure another or injure the mail or other property. Harmful matter includes, but is not limited to:
a. All types and classes of poisons, including controlled substances.
b. All poisonous animals except scorpions mailed for medical research purposes or for the manufacture of antivenom; all poisonous insects; all poisonous reptiles; and all types of snakes, turtles, and spiders.
c. All disease germs or scabs.
d. All explosives, flammable material, infernal machines, and mechanical, chemical, or other devices or compositions that may ignite or explode.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
I intended to discuss this with my Post Master, which is written above. And, I'd like to know more about the Lacy Act.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
"The Lacey Act provides that it is unlawful for any person to import, export, transport, sell, receive, acquire, or purchase any fish or wildlife or plant taken, possessed, transported, or sold in violation of any law, treaty, or regulation of the United States or in violation of any Indian tribal law whether in interstate or foreign commerce. Violation of this federal act can result in civil penalties up to $10,000 per each violation or maximum criminal sanctions of $20,000 in fines and/or up to five years imprisonment. All plants or animals taken in violation of the Act are subject to forfeiture as well as all vessels, vehicles, aircraft, and other equipment used to aid in the importing, exporting, transporting, selling, receiving, acquiring, or purchasing of fish or wildlife or plants in a criminal violation of this chapter for which a felony conviction is obtained where the owner should have known of the illegal transgression."
Not quite clear on how this pertains to my discussion, and I had no intent of any illegal activity. I apologize if it was taken that way. I am, however, interested in input pertaining to my question.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
No offense to you but even if it was legal I would have to say thanks but no thanks, usps is horrible (at least here here :rolleyes:), they can't even deliver letters properly (I get my mail in my neighbor's mailbox and I get other people's mail because they have the same street number not the right street though :rolleyes:) , thay drop packages on your step from waist high when it says fragile, they would rather put a notice in your box than get out of their car to see if your home when you have a package etc.
Interestingly enough I lived in several countries and postal services all have one thing in common they how horrendous. ;)
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
Not intending to insult your place of work, but FedEx is far superior in reliability and tracking, both of which are essential to shipping live reptiles, ESPECIALLY live reptiles that are possibly worth thousands of dollars.
You pay for quality.
I think that the USPS has its niche filled quite well, and it doesn't need to expand beyond its capability.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
No offense taken by anyone. Love the input.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
Ok I have to stand up for our USPS....If you work in a job environment that does that much volume there are going to be mistakes. I had a slight altercation with our local office. My house is the center of our street. The postman (sometimes woman) pulls over at my house and parks in our yard. This infuriates my Boxer Abbey, who will sit there and pound on the window. She has broken that window 5 times. Sent one Postwoman running down the street screaming help..hehehe. We tried thicker glass, and still she did it...We finally wised up and pulled the couch somewhat away from the window so she couldnt get leverage. They thought she was a "vicious" pit bull. (their words). They had Animal control at my house and the city called me at work. They wanted to shoot her. She never even came out of the house, it scared her more than the mailman. After talking to our normal mailman, he was very understanding, knowing she wasnt dangerous to anybody but herself, and now he will stop and talk to her if she is in the yard.
HATS OFF TO USPS IMHO
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
Sorry but its against USPS rules to ship any snakes :colbert:.Its not up to your local post masters and if they allow it to happen then they will lose there jobs when caught.If you decide to try it then like Robin said you will be on ALOT of do not buy from peoples lists ;).So thier is no debate on its possible outcome point blank.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
Just a note. Both UPS and Fed Ex claim not to ship snakes. The USPS is the only one that, most of the time, puts their foot down on the subject. They do, however, ship birds and most other reptiles. I suppose I shouldn't have stated that I was going to "try" to ship them via USPS. What I meant by that is that I was going to discuss this with my Post Master and see if it is really illegal, because I don't believe there is any legislation on the matter. If there was, UPS and Fed Ex wouldn't be able to ship, despite the fact that both of their rules state clearly, no snakes.
With that said, the poll isn't about how I'm shipping my snakes. It's about what would happen if the Postal Service decided to openly allow the shipping of snakes through their services.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballbreeder
Just a note. Both UPS and Fed Ex claim not to ship snakes. The USPS is the only one that, most of the time, puts their foot down on the subject. They do, however, ship birds and most other reptiles. I suppose I shouldn't have stated that I was going to "try" to ship them via USPS. What I meant by that is that I was going to discuss this with my Post Master and see if it is really illegal, because I don't believe there is any legislation on the matter. If there was, UPS and Fed Ex wouldn't be able to ship, despite the fact that both of their rules state clearly, no snakes.
With that said, the poll isn't about how I'm shipping my snakes. It's about what would happen if the Postal Service decided to openly allow the shipping of snakes through their services.
UPS does not take any new reptile shipping accounts.They do ship for those that were grandfathered in when they changed the rule though :gj:..They also ship for ship your reptiles.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
Quote:
Originally Posted by ballbreeder
Just a note. Both UPS and Fed Ex claim not to ship snakes. The USPS is the only one that, most of the time, puts their foot down on the subject. They do, however, ship birds and most other reptiles. I suppose I shouldn't have stated that I was going to "try" to ship them via USPS. What I meant by that is that I was going to discuss this with my Post Master and see if it is really illegal, because I don't believe there is any legislation on the matter. If there was, UPS and Fed Ex wouldn't be able to ship, despite the fact that both of their rules state clearly, no snakes.
With that said, the poll isn't about how I'm shipping my snakes. It's about what would happen if the Postal Service decided to openly allow the shipping of snakes through their services.
UPS and FedEx are not Government agencies - it's against their policy, not against the law. And FedEx does allow you to become certified to ship through them. Contact them for your local account rep to find out the process. UPS allows some companies to ship through them, like Ship Your Reptiles.
USPS is government run and government governed. Violating their rules, is violating the law.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
FedEx is cleaning up on the reptile shipping business.
As the Post Office continues to lose more and more revenue each year (on-line bill pay, email, electronic billing statements, flickr, facebook, etc.) they would be wise to reconsider their policy on snakes (and, perhaps, a few other things). But the USPS is a government-run shop with the typical bureaucratic mindsets hindering change.
They may be in an unrecoverable downward spiral. The continue to lose revenue so they raise prices. Higher prices encourage people to use fewer stamps and look for other alternatives (e.g. UPS & FedEx). The decision to ship snakes would have to be part of a larger, more comprehensive plan to save themselves.
Me personally, I've got my eye on the post office building down the street. When it's finally gone I'm going to buy it, gut it, and line the walls with snake racks.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
Quote:
Originally Posted by rabernet
UPS and FedEx are not Government agencies - it's against their policy, not against the law. And FedEx does allow you to become certified to ship through them. Contact them for your local account rep to find out the process. UPS allows some companies to ship through them, like Ship Your Reptiles.
USPS is government run and government governed. Violating their rules, is violating the law.
Again, not sure what the actual law is. I do know that the Postal Service is no longer government run and that no tax money funds it. It's on its own now to raise the money it needs to survive, via postage and services. Regan set it out on its own in the 80's.
With that said, any comments on the actual discussion topic? What would happen if the post office actually started openly shipping snakes? Beneficial or not? Thank you ColinWeaver for answering the topic question.
By the way, I do agree it would be a very very bad idea to just ship a snake via the postal service with their current ban. No one in their right mind would do that. I don't think it's a bad idea to discuss it with your local post master and find out what the laws really are, however.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
As another fellow USPS worker, I would say it would benefit the USPS somewhat -IF- they started accecpting the shipment of reptiles. I've personally been on all ends of the mail process from incomming packages to letters sent to the carries for daily delivery.
but it could also be detrimental to both, Shipping reptiles would require more care per package, which means more people to handle them. As of now the post office seems to be in a severe hiring freeze (least where I'm located) and making more work with fewer people isint really a good plan.
Also for those of you who have mail issues ( not directly going at anyone here) but more that 50% of mail issues come from the customers. People who want to try to cram every thing into one letter to not have to pay a tad more postage. People who put pens, candy canes, chocolates. necklaces...socks....in an envelope. :( The stupid thing is the USPS wil not inform peopple of what not to put in letters just the weights to still pass as a 'letter' and not a parcel, letters have to be able to bend to roughly the shape of a 'C' otherwise it either (1). Rips the letter itself open. (2) damages Whats inside the letter. (3)Jams the machines its processed through and damages others peoples mail who also hit the jam and knocking it out of delivery order. :) I Hope to be an informant for every person who comes up to rage at the post office for why their mail is screwed, I've heard several stories from my mother whos been with the USPS for 25+ years:salute: but the USPS need s to get control of what little they have left before taking on a whole new genre imo. There smore underlying issues than the public knows.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
With how many of my packages that they have lost, I wouldn't ship with them.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
Quote:
Originally Posted by Deborah
No offense to you but even if it was legal I would have to say thanks but no thanks, usps is horrible (at least here here :rolleyes:), they can't even deliver letters properly (I get my mail in my neighbor's mailbox and I get other people's mail because they have the same street number not the right street though :rolleyes:) , thay drop packages on your step from waist high when it says fragile, they would rather put a notice in your box than get out of their car to see if your home when you have a package etc.
Interestingly enough I lived in several countries and postal services all have one thing in common they how horrendous. ;)
ill have to disagree with you on that. i use USPS for any other things and have never had a problem with them. UPS is garbage and i hate using them to ship anything.
if USPS changed rules so that it was legal to ship reptiles or inverts (Ts and scorpions) i would use them without question. to me, its USPS, FEDEX, or nothing.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
Ok, the actual law:
You MUST LABEL YOUR PACKAGE. You must state clearly ON THE BOX that it contains live animals--you must write it big enough so everyone can read it. The point is, everyone handling the box who's paying any attention should know that there are live animals inside.
You must have the number and species, and common names (yes, all three items) listed clearly in a place that is accessible WITHOUT opening the box. It may be written on the box, or it may be on a slip of paper in an envelope attached to the box. If you hide it under the shipping label in the plastic pouch, that's FINE, but you must leave a note on the box (not hidden) stating that the information is there under the shipping label.
This is what is required by the Lacey Act, and there's no wiggle room. It doesn't matter if you use USPS, UPS, Fed Ex, or Delta Dash--you must still abide by this law, and label your package correctly. I will also point out that it doesn't matter how you feel, or whether you think it's a risk that people will abuse the package more because it's labeled, etc--this law is a LAW, and it is not negotiable. A person sending a package that is not labeled in this fashion is a felon. A person receiving a package that is incorrectly labeled is ALSO A FELON IF THEY KNOW WHAT IS IN THE PACKAGE. The only legal recourse for someone who has an incorrectly labeled package delivered is to refuse it, and of course no one will risk an animal's life that way. This is why it's so crucial for folks to demand that sellers come into compliance, if they aren't.
Now, because USPS does not permit the shipping of snakes, if you correctly label your package, they will reject it. Thus, the only way to ship snakes through USPS is to do so illegally--by not marking your package correctly. Is this more understandable for folks?
Now, as to the track records of UPS, Fed Ex, and USPS...
Get serious, folks--they all suck. Royally, repeatedly, and thoroughly. Arguing over which one is worse is pointless. You will find horror stories about all three services. People choose one--if they have good luck with it, they stick with it. If they don't, they switch to another one. Chances are, eventually they'll have a bad experience with that one too.
Now, individual hubs also vary in quality. In some places, you can't trust the local offices for one company, but another is fine. In a different place, it'll be the other way around.
In the past, I shipped geckos using USPS. They were fine, and on time. I've shipped animals using Fed Ex. Ditto.
I'm currently using UPS (through SYR). They've been fine. There was one delay due to weather, but that wasn't their fault, that was a snowstorm at an airport. It was only a half a day, and I had them hold the package at the hub when it arrived at the destination, and it was fine.
I'm quite sure that eventually, there will be a problem. It's pretty much inevitable. Shipping animals is risky, and we all know that. Which service the problem will be with, well, it could be any of them.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas339
ill have to disagree with you on that. i use USPS for any other things and have never had a problem with them. UPS is garbage and i hate using them to ship anything.
if USPS changed rules so that it was legal to ship reptiles or inverts (Ts and scorpions) i would use them without question. to me, its USPS, FEDEX, or nothing.
Maybe UPS and USPS are different where you live, but USPS where I live is pretty bad. They have lost my packages on several occasions. I have never had any issues with UPS, and have shipped and received snake and non-snake packages with them many times. I actually like UPS better than FedEx for snake shipments. I did have a couple FedEx snake shipments get lost. Luckily they found them not long after and were only a couple of hours late.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
last UPS shippment i made was for snakes. i didn't want to do it for other reason and i don't feel like arguing those at this time. the person i was shipping to insisted on using them so i did. the package was supposed to be there around noon but didn't show up till 7.
every over night shippment i have made with USPS has showed up on time all over the country. made its just where you live.....im sure its different every where but USPS has been good to me.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
Both of my parent work for postal services.
My Dad works for UPS and says they are the worst, as a matter of fact his exact words were "If you are looking to ship something fragile or meaningful, you better do it yourself. Only because once it hits the guys on the division ramp, fragile means throw it harder to them".
My Mom works for the USPS plant, and she says that it is just so filthy she's shocked that the bubonic plague isn't killing her off.
I can only go by what they say, I don't step foot into our post offices unless need be. Yet, with them working there and saying it's that bad, I would be worried to ship any thing that is alive.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
The government has never done anything right
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
On a personal note. I don't trust the government. Ever.
As A customer I won't buy if it's shipped through the USPS.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
shipping time sensitive pkgs. thru the USPS is not a good idea,the post office is not a airline,they turn there pkgs over to the airlines for transport.airline employees primary concern is passengers not "mail".
UPS and FEDEX are airlines and there primary job is pkgs.,not having tax dollars to rely on they either turn a profit or go under.
if it were legal i would NEVER choose the post office for live animal shipments,they simply don;t have a reliable efficient system for moving pkgs.
-
Re: Postal Service Snake Shipping Poll
I have shipped about 6,000 packages via USPS in the last 4 years. Between lost,damaged,and returned to sender,I've had issues with under 1 dozen. A few others end up in limbo,but were eventually delivered. Prices are definitely cheaper than UPS and FedEx for what I do. Anything over 70lbs goes out UPS.
|