Do you ever feel bad feeding live?

So, I still have yet to attempt to switch mine over to f/t (due to me being scared of defrosting them incorrectly), but sometimes I feel bad feeding live since I have had rats as pets before.

I feel especially bad feeding the chunky, cute lil baby rats. I pull them out of the bag and they are just so freakin adorable, but I know that if they aren't going to my snakes, they are going to someone else's anyway...

And occasionally if my dogs are in the room they will hear the rats being eaten and start whining and pacing around the room, which makes me feel even worse!!

So, this made me curious, how many of you have a twinge of guilt throwing the rats into the cage as dinner?

Dont worry about "defrosting incorrectly". Really, there is nothing easier.

Dunk the rodent in warm water. Let it sit until defrosted thoroughly. If it's a large rodent, dump out and refill the water once chilled.

Some people defrost in bags. There really is no need to prevent water from touching your rodent. I mean really, it's water.

I never feel guilty about feeding live, but for me it isn't necessary. I've never had a snake that refused F/T.

Hey so mainbutter - did "likebull1" ever send you their first baby?! It's been 2 years :P.... those were some sweet lookin snakes on that thread.

And I'm going to attempt f/t next time on two of mine.

I have never really had a problem feeding live. It's pretty much the way of life. Snakes eat live in the wild, why should it be any different here with me. I do keep a close eye whenever feeding though but I have yet to have any problems due to a live rat.

I do feel kinda bad for the rodent, but not so bad that I'm not going to feed my snakes. I've had pet rats before as well, but I don't ever think that I'm feeding a pet... these mice or rats were raise to be fed off. I would never feed off someones pet rodent, but the feeders (who live quite a spoiled life here) just give me that twinge of "Sorry lil guy"

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Originally Posted by AcePythons

I feel especially bad feeding the chunky, cute lil baby rats. I pull them out of the bag and they are just so freakin adorable

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Ditto that... I only feel bad with the baby rats, and occasionally a super cute adult rat. Mice? Meh, I couldn't really care less about them. :cool: I mostly stick with f/t rats (more live mice), so it's rare that I have to feel guilty.

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And occasionally if my dogs are in the room they will hear the rats being eaten and start whining and pacing around the room, which makes me feel even worse!!

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My dog does that too! He's a herding breed of some sort, and feels the need to protect every animal smaller than himself... I have to lock him out of the room during feedings, or he will literally try to rescue them from the tubs. :colbert:

I don't really feel bad. My snake eats live prey and I deal with it and accept it.

If not feeding in another week I may have to go live....I keep telling myself its "the way of the World" Snakes are just higher up the food chain than a rodent. If you have taken on the responsibility of owning a snake then you must do whats necessary for it survival. Its dependent on you.


:please:

P.S. I personally dread going live. Please eat this week Diamond.

I never feel bad.. Esp after getting bit by a rat.. OUCH!!!
I would rather get bit by my Burm.. Those cute lil rats will chew and not let go till the teeth touch the other side.. Forget that..
I only have 2 snakes that need live.. I really actually hope their end comes fast and without hurting my snake.

Feeding live is only the second worse thing when it comes to owning snakes. Having to kill the rat yourself to assist feed or because your snake is a dumby and didn't grab the rat right to aviod injury..that the worse part..

I have absolutely no problem feeding off an albino rat or mouse. Animals with red eyes give me the creeps almost as bad as clowns, which is why I will never own any animal with red eyes, be it a mouse, rat, rabbit, guinea pig or snake, unless somebody has an albino BP with black eyes. Since I think the little black beady eyes are kinda cute, I will only buy albino feeders...

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Originally Posted by PYMOM

If not feeding in another week I may have to go live....I keep telling myself its "the way of the World" Snakes are just higher up the food chain than a rodent. If you have taken on the responsibility of owning a snake then you must do whats necessary for it survival. Its dependent on you.


:please:

P.S. I personally dread going live. Please eat this week Diamond.

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This is not always the case. You can find a lot of pictures of snakes who were on the losing end of the deal. If you end up feeding your little guy live make sure you supervise it. Don't leave live prey with your snake unattended. You also may want to consider having a set of tongs or leather glove nearby to remove the rodent if they go psycho and on the attack. To them, your fingers or hand will be just as much fair game. But don't worry. The majority of the time the snake dispatches the rodent with efficiency, gets a fat belly, and sleeps for the next 36 hours or so, and after 3 or 4 feedings, they will leave a nice big chocolate brownie in their tank for you...

I'm fairly meh about the feeding live thing. I'd like to switch to f/t for the safety of my snake, but it doesn't bother me to put a live mouse in. On rare occasions, I actually am delighted. (I had a male mouse that liked to viciously rape and attack other mice. I wasn't sad to see him go.)

I've had all sorts of rodents as pets, and any that I raise as feeders are very well taken care of before they are feeders. I figure they had a good life, time for them to give my snake a good life.

>.< I've prekilled a couple times, and oh god... It's awful.

I didn't think it would bother me. When I worked at the pet store we fed our snakes mice and it didn't bother me so I didn't think a rat would be any different. We fed our girl this past weekend. She's ten and has always eaten live, so even though I know the safety benefits of feeding f/t I wasn't going to make the switch on our first feeding. After feeding her live-I don't want to do it again. It made me so sad. Yes I know all about the food chain and what snakes do in the wild. Thing is-this snake isn't in the wild. The rat screamed 3 times and was obviously afraid. That's what bothered me. I'd rather she sneak up on it and it be done and over with before the rat knew what hit him.

So I started looking into how to transition snakes that feed live to f/t. First I'll have to start with rats that have just been killed. Lucky for me I won't have to do it, there's a pet store pretty close to my house that will do it for me. Then after a few weeks of that I can transition to actual f/t. (If that's even an option for us since we're fostering and she might already be gone)

I know she has to eat, and I will make sure she does. AND, I am not a vegetarian and I know where my meat comes from...but I really don't like the idea of the animal being in fear before it dies. It really hurt my heart to hear that.

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Originally Posted by Jamielvsaustin

I didn't think it would bother me. When I worked at the pet store we fed our snakes mice and it didn't bother me so I didn't think a rat would be any different. We fed our girl this past weekend. She's ten and has always eaten live, so even though I know the safety benefits of feeding f/t I wasn't going to make the switch on our first feeding. After feeding her live-I don't want to do it again. It made me so sad. Yes I know all about the food chain and what snakes do in the wild. Thing is-this snake isn't in the wild. The rat screamed 3 times and was obviously afraid. That's what bothered me. I'd rather she sneak up on it and it be done and over with before the rat knew what hit him.

So I started looking into how to transition snakes that feed live to f/t. First I'll have to start with rats that have just been killed. Lucky for me I won't have to do it, there's a pet store pretty close to my house that will do it for me. Then after a few weeks of that I can transition to actual f/t. (If that's even an option for us since we're fostering and she might already be gone)

I know she has to eat, and I will make sure she does. AND, I am not a vegetarian and I know where my meat comes from...but I really don't like the idea of the animal being in fear before it dies. It really hurt my heart to hear that.

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Same here. I only feed mine mice for that reason (I feed her a couple, not just one) and she always eats all of them, so I don't see any harm (I actually adopted one of the rats that I was going to feed her). I dont know....it's just different with rats I guess...call me crazy.

I feed F/t but wouldn't feel bad feeding live or F/k. Living situation permits i cannot breed feeders and OH would leave me if i started putting the cute little meeces to death :colbert:

Ive fed live before, i dont -like- it, but i don't hate it. If my animals needed to eat live, they'd eat live. As of right now, and with every animal i've had i've been able to switch them to F/T because it is easier for ME.

I do think the rats and mice are cute (i used to have pet rats) but they are dinner first, and cute second.

I bet the Rat and Mice forums would have a field day with this thread

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Originally Posted by PYMOM

I bet the Rat and Mice forums would have a field day with this thread

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Ive gotten into some pretty heated conversations with rodent owners. They think live feeding is THE WORLDS CRUELEST THING. I understand their point of view, but i dont agree with it :P

No, I really don't at all. And I've owned many pet rats in the past.

One time I surprised myself by feeling a bit bad. I was feeding my little guy who eats weanling rats. This was was particularly cute and fuzzy, and I was feeling particularly maternal (I had just delivered my surrogate daughter). It surprised me that a baby rat struck a maternal instinct in me. It was in a very very minor way, but still.

Here is my situation, my wife wants me to part with my ball pythons because she "does not want their blood on her hands" even though they are mine. I have to move them all (38 of them) over to a friends house and maintain them there. Im torn and upset. I hate the fact I pay for everything and cannot keep them at my own home. My daughter can keep her 4 ball pythons according to her mother, but I am cruel for keeping my own.

Well, here is my thing:
I am a pet rat and mouse owner. I really thought I would have a hard time feeding live mice, but I started with a snake that ate f/t and it wasn't so bad buying mice already dead. Then I got my BP that will only eat live. So, as long as I get the pure white feeder mice, I am fine. It is when the pet store gives me cute colored ones that look like pet mice that I have a problem. Those are the ones that have to go first, or I will get attached.

Now, I just got a new baby BP that eats the tiniest pinkies. They were feeding it live. I tried that and just couldn't bear it. Had to have my son feed the snake. Something about the babies that get to me. So, I have to buy the tiny babies and put them in the freezer before I can feed them. Not near as bad that way, and safer to have this baby eating f/t from the beginning.

Now, if only I could get my older BP to eat f/t so I don't have to worry about feeding live rats. Don't think I could do that.

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Originally Posted by bammer838

Here is my situation, my wife wants me to part with my ball pythons because she "does not want their blood on her hands" even though they are mine. I have to move them all (38 of them) over to a friends house and maintain them there. Im torn and upset. I hate the fact I pay for everything and cannot keep them at my own home. My daughter can keep her 4 ball pythons according to her mother, but I am cruel for keeping my own.

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That sucks. after 38 bp's now she wants you to get rid of them. do you have any say-so in the relationship? i'm not trying to come down on you but i don't see how your daughter can keep her's but not you and i'm assuming that with 38 bp's you must have had them for quite a while.

I don't feel bad feeding live, p/k or f/t. the only reason i'm feeding f/t is cause it's easier to get the right size food but since i just started breeding rats i'll be feeding live and f/t just like i'm doing now.

i used to not feel bad, because i would but them, bring them straight home, and feed them, but since my snake refuses to eat i got stuck with this cute little mouse, long story short, his name is now stewart and is my new pet =l next time i feed the snake, ill go buy another mouse, i can't bear to kill him =[

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Originally Posted by maria1232

i used to not feel bad, because i would but them, bring them straight home, and feed them, but since my snake refuses to eat i got stuck with this cute little mouse, long story short, his name is now stewart and is my new pet =l next time i feed the snake, ill go buy another mouse, i can't bear to kill him =[

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Awww!!! Well I'm sure Stewart is super cute!!

And it's funny that some of you guys say that you only feed the albino mice/rats. I was like that with my red tails. The people at our herp shop always laughed at me cuz I would go in and ask for their "ugliest white rat". Now I just don't really look and throw them in. But I am switching to P/K and then F/T this next feeding.

I'd feel worse starving my snake...

I have previously owned rats as well. Loved them, and still do. Though, what would make me REALLY feel bad, is if another living animal starved to death because of my own "inadequacies".

I try to keep a "it's just business" opinion about it. Really, if the snake were in the wild, it would be lowering the rodent count on its own anyway. That's what rodents exist for; without them, the ecosystem doesn't work. We are essentially re-creating that ecosystem for the snake in our own home. I have no qualms with that.

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Originally Posted by bammer838

Here is my situation, my wife wants me to part with my ball pythons because she "does not want their blood on her hands" even though they are mine. I have to move them all (38 of them) over to a friends house and maintain them there. Im torn and upset. I hate the fact I pay for everything and cannot keep them at my own home. My daughter can keep her 4 ball pythons according to her mother, but I am cruel for keeping my own.

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I'm not trying to start the war of the roses, but there are times you have to man up and tell her these are your animals, not your friends. They're going to stay in YOUR house. If after 38 snakes, she's gotten an issue, then she needs to deal with it.

My apology to all of the ladies here, but this isn't right.
Jim smith

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

I'm not trying to start the war of the roses, but there are times you have to man up and tell her these are your animals, not your friends. They're going to stay in YOUR house. If after 38 snakes, she's gotten an issue, then she needs to deal with it.

My apology to all of the ladies here, but this isn't right.
Jim smith

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Sorry, but I have to disagree. It's no one person's house, it's a family house. Seems like now is the time for compromise.

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Originally Posted by unspecified42

Sorry, but I have to disagree. It's no one person's house, it's a family house. Seems like now is the time for compromise.

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But turn that around. This guy has 38 snakes. I'm sure he didn't go out and buy all 38 at one time. Now all of a sudden, the wife says the snake HAVE TO GO. I see you removed the part in your reply about if he talked to you like that, you'd be out the door. Well, how do you think this guy feels? He's got a nice hobby going on, then his wife says he HAS to get them out of their house. No request, but a demand.

That's where the situation went bad in my view. She doesn't want their blood on her hands or something like that. What a line.

Jim Smith

I feed all of my snakes live food. They have evolved for generations to constrict their prey... so it's quite natural imo.

Now if you believe in reincarnation and you come back to this world as a feeder mouse... it would suck because you now know your life is worth about $1 lol

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

This guy has 38 snakes. I'm sure he didn't go out and buy all 38 at one time.

Jim Smith

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Lol...priceless image. "Hey hun! Check out what I bought!!!" :rofl:

I think that he should keep them. Like mentioned, he probably didn't buy them all at once, hence she was probably around the snakes (probably not all 38 but still, a good majority) when they first entered the relationship and was okay with it then?

She's probably one of those girls that wants to "change" their man and bend them into what she believes is the ideal husband. I absolutely HATE people life this. They give us "wamuns" a bad name!

Coming from a girls point of view that's in a relationship with someone, I would never ask him to stop persuing a hobby that he LOVED (and with 38 snakes, obviously he does). I think that's just cruel. She knew what she was getting herself into and if she didn't like it, then she shouldn't have married him! :rage:

Agree with Jim 100%. And seriously, if (not saying that this was said but i'm sure it could possibly escalate into something like this) she gave the big choice, me or the snakes, I would chose what makes me really happy and not someone that's trying to control what I love and who I am. Just my .02 cents of course....

Yes :( Sometimes I have to leave the room if the rat is screaching. It's an awful sound. I raise all the babies myself and I hold and snuggle every one of them at least every other day, usually every day because I want all my rats to be friendly in case I hold one back. I don't mind finding the experience snakes because they are efficient killers, but man those babies SUCK sometimes!!!

i never have and thank god i know im gonna get hate for this but i feel so bad doing it rats are so cute!! and i just cant bare to watch it :(

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

But turn that around. This guy has 38 snakes. I'm sure he didn't go out and buy all 38 at one time. Now all of a sudden, the wife says the snake HAVE TO GO. I see you removed the part in your reply about if he talked to you like that, you'd be out the door. Well, how do you think this guy feels? He's got a nice hobby going on, then his wife says he HAS to get them out of their house. No request, but a demand.

That's where the situation went bad in my view. She doesn't want their blood on her hands or something like that. What a line.

Jim Smith

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The next thing will be, he is spending too much time at his friends house taking care of his snakes. Then what do you do?

I agree with Jim 100%, i don't see why now she wants you to get rid of them. that makes no sense. put your pants on.

I only kinda feel bad for feeding rats, but mice I don't think twice about. My BF feels bad for everything I feed off, and has made me say thanks to the feeder several times, lol.

I also tell myself that if they're not going to my snake they're just gonna go to someone else's. I have started to convert to f/t though. Makes things much more manageable.

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Originally Posted by jben

I agree with Jim 100%, i don't see why now she wants you to get rid of them. that makes no sense. put your pants on.

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Whipped..........

I made a thread very similar to this not too long ago http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showthread.php?t=103379

I don't necessarily even care when I feed live, I just think of it as what needs to be done. I own snakes and if I have to feed live in order for them to survive I'll do it. My snakes are more important to me than a live rodent.

I feed live. I feel mildly bad about it, but she's got to eat. I'm switching to F/t if I can b/c she is a terrible predator and keeps getting bitten and scratched, not because I feel bad.

I breed em, raise em up from little pinkies, and then feed em. Sometimes it's hard, like today when I fed off one of the females from my original trio. SOmetimes it's easy, like when a little bastard escapes.

But either way, it's what has to be done for my snakies to thrive as I am running out of F/T.

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Originally Posted by Elise.m

I only kinda feel bad for feeding rats, but mice I don't think twice about. My BF feels bad for everything I feed off, and has made me say thanks to the feeder several times, lol.

I also tell myself that if they're not going to my snake they're just gonna go to someone else's. I have started to convert to f/t though. Makes things much more manageable.

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Yeah that's my theory too, that if they aren't going to mine it'll be someone else's. And (LOL), I always apologize before I put them in...hah...I'm such a nerd.

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Originally Posted by pavlovk1025

I breed em, raise em up from little pinkies, and then feed em. Sometimes it's hard, like today when I fed off one of the females from my original trio. SOmetimes it's easy, like when a little bastard escapes.

But either way, it's what has to be done for my snakies to thrive as I am running out of F/T.

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LOL Pav!!!

I used to feed live but I'm lucky in that now my whole collection slams FT. I dont necessarily feel bad(as i knew the situation going into the hobby) its just easier for me to not have to keep extra animals. As my collection grows larger i know there is a good chance that could change.

As far as an ethical debate. I work for a major Pharma co. that has a ton of Lab rodents. Most frozen rodents are put down by CO2. I've witnessed this and alot of times it takes about 3-5 minutes for the animal to go and its a gasping struggle. When feeding live, if its a "head first" grab, its usually over in 20 seconds. So my personal opinion is that feeding live is actually more humane. Just more dramatic for some.

i feel like an idiot.. but i put in ear plugs because i cant stand the sound of the mouse having its last squeak...it breaks my heart =P

I LOVE rats, and feel AWFUL feeding them! Used to have some pet rats, if only they were so darned much work, I'd get some more. Mice, I'm not so sad about. Nasty little buggers. But the rat's big sweet eyes, cute little nose... it's terrible!! I've had snakes strike at a rat, bite it, then let it go. That's always the worst. :( But when I go in the cage to take the rat out, it's terrified from all the trauma, but never bites. Mice, on the other hand, bite me before they even realize they're being fed to a snake.

Although it's nice not to hear them squealing, that's not why I switched to f/t. I switched to f/t because of the snakes' safety... and because it's cheap in bulk. ;)

i do. when i was in high school it didnt bother me at all but since i've grown up and had children...it kind of makes me feel bad. my daughters are 4 and 5 and they like the mice. let's face it..they are pretty darn cute. i give the mice to my snakes and leave the room. i feel like it is kind of unnatural to feed a dead animal to something that was naturally born to hunt, so i feed live and likely always will. but at the same time..i'm very open minded and i respect most any other way of doing things. to each their own, i believe. except for one guy that said he just freezes the mice alive. i thought that was kind of cruel. but anyhow...yeah i feel bad. and to kessler's kreatures, the reason it is different feeding a captive snake live mice is this: in the wild, a mouse has a chance to survive and get away. it has a chance to fight for its life. that is what is natural. when you throw a live mouse into an enclosure with a hungry snake...it has no chance at survival. that in my opinion gives it a tinge of immorality. im not trying to single you out...just wanted to point that out. i may have sounded hypocritical, but my point is that if you like snakes and have them as pets, you have to do something that a lot of people think is a crappy thing to do. even of you feed them frozen mice, those mice suffered as well. they didnt die peacefully. but like you said..it is a fact of life. i agree with you there.

I dont feel that bad because they where born to be feeders. I will admit i do get 5 or 6 at a time and they are spoiled before they go so thats how i deal with it.

I only feel bad about rats. There pretty cute :)

I have no issue what so ever. The "special" ones are kept back for breeding. However, if they eat babies, bite me, or turn out to be over aggressive to cage mates, they get fed off.

only with rats, and i dont like pre killing either but i refuse to f/t, only cuz i dont like the risk of bacteria and whatnot. Oh well, it's the circle of life!!:gj::snake:

I feed f/t. I'd never feed live unless it was simply a must.

Not just because I'd feel bad but because.

A) The mouse could hurt the snake

B) What do I do with the live critter if the snake don't eat it?