deflated eye

a few weeks ago i took my ball python to the vet because she had some problems shedding her eye caps. the vet was able to take them off after an hour of picking at her eyes. just last week i noticed that one of her eyes turned partially black so i called the vet and got another appointment. the vet told me that it looked like she still had an eye cap on her eye and that it was just "fogged" and it should come off next time she sheds. tonight i was looking at her eye and it's totally deflated!! :confused:. what's left of the eye is all black now and looks awful. whatever this may be, i am afraid that her other eye will be affected. someone please help me!!

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Originally Posted by swe3tm0mentz

a few weeks ago i took my ball python to the vet because she had some problems shedding her eye caps. the vet was able to take them off after an hour of picking at her eyes. just last week i noticed that one of her eyes turned partially black so i called the vet and got another appointment. the vet told me that it looked like she still had an eye cap on her eye and that it was just "fogged" and it should come off next time she sheds. tonight i was looking at her eye and it's totally deflated!! :confused:. what's left of the eye is all black now and looks awful. whatever this may be, i am afraid that her other eye will be affected. someone please help me!!

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Your humidity levels are to low ;).I hope that vet is a real reptile vet and not someone wishing he was :weirdface.The tugging at the eyes can injure your snake forever

i have had her for about 2 years now and never a problem like this untill the vet was playing with her eyes. i havnt changed any routine with her tank. my bf said he read somewhere that it might also be a sign of a parasite?

Can you post a picture?

Try increasing the humidity and see if that helps. If not, find yourself a new vet. No one should be picking at your snakes eye trying to get an eye cap off.

Whatever this is, it sounds to me like it's way past "humidity" issues. If the eye is as injured as it sounds, increasing the humidity isn't going to suddenly "cure" the eye.

You need to find a vet that has solid knowledge and experience in treating snakes. While I appreciate the typical small-animal vet willing to TRY to help, they run a high risk of doing more harm than good. :( Eyecaps don't usually need to be messed with at all, except in cases of serious neglect where several layers of caps have built up over time.

Here's a list of vets recommended by our own members who have personally had good experiences:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=56792

here are the pictures.

http://i50.tinypic.com/i1mt7s.jpg

http://i47.tinypic.com/svm62f.jpg

http://i49.tinypic.com/muzmgn.jpg

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Originally Posted by JLC

Here's a list of vets recommended by our own members who have personally had good experiences:

http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ad.php?t=56792

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Not to hijack this thread but thanks man i was looking for some local vets incase i ever would have to take ours in we would know where to do :)

Thanks very much

there seemed to be an issue with the pics!

http://tinypic.com/r/muzmgn/6
http://tinypic.com/r/svm62f/6
http://tinypic.com/r/i1mt7s/6

I fixed the picture links for you.

I hate to say this....and I hope I'm wrong....but it looks to me like BOTH eyes are messed up. I don't think it's stuck eyecaps on either. I wouldn't trust my snake's care to that particular vet again...I'd find a serious herp vet.

i hope you are wrong too. unfortunatly she had 2 eye caps on both eyes, the left one looked worse than the right, i am hoping that on the right that is still an eye cap that the vet wasnt able to pick off. i looked at the link you gave me with vets, good thing is the only one you have for virginia is in my area! im just really worried that her other eye will do the same and shell go fully blind. i want to sue this so called reptile vet i took her to, all she did was make the problem worse!! :rage:

Neither of those eyes look anything like any stuck eyecaps I've ever seen. Even if a couple of them are stacked up, they are still clear with little jagged edges around them.

I'm glad you have a good vet in your area. Please keep us updated on your snake's diagnosis and prognosis!

I'll add one more thing...while it would totally suck, no doubt, I have heard of many cases of rescued ball pythons that were blind, but once rescued lived lives as contented as we can imagine these animals' lives to be. Sight isn't their primary sense...and they don't have to ever go hunting for their prey or hide from predators....they can live just fine in captivity, even if blind. I've also seen cases of some pretty nasty looking eye issues eventually healing up to perfectly normal eyes. Hang in there....and good luck!!

sadly to mee looks like the vet remove the portection of the eye scale and the eye have dry out cause they lost their protection. The snake may end up blind .. Tat being said I hope to be wrong but I know of a guy that has a snake bornwith no eyes and is still doing fine little more jumpy( bite happy) but the snake is just a pet and not a breeder possible since they don't know if the defect was genic , incubatoin , or just a fluke in relation.

I go see the proper vet and I hope for the best for you. I also contact the other vet and let them know that they should of said they had little to no training on reptile issues when you took them in. I know i be :mad::taz::mad: on the vet head if that was one of my snake's. I also watch it closely over the nextfew sheds to make sure they eye caps do come off ( check for mutli sheds overthe next few months too) asthis would be a sign of it trying to heal/repair the damage. ( seen snakes that have eye injuries over he years ( wild caught black rats) were the eye area was more less repalced with scar scales to protect the area after an eye lossing injury.

I agree, :(

It looks as though he has removed the stuck eyecaps plus the one that was supposed to be there. :tears:

I don't even know if they can grow those back through the natural shedding process?

Does anyone know if using artificial tears to try and keep the exposed eyes clear of debris would help?


dr del

The one eye and other is on its way out are due to lack of husbandry. Eye caps happen but to the extent of that is husbandry.

Humidity fixes this 100% of the time. Your vet made it worse by picking at it and possibly destroyed your snakes sight for life.

I disagree.

The problem of stuck eyecaps can be put down to husbandry in all probability - but, unless they get an infection in them which remains untreated, it is quite rare for it to have permanent effects on the animals eye-sight.

If this poor animal loses its sight it will be as a direct result of the actions of the vet.

I think it is overly harsh to tell the OP he is responsible for the state of the animal now - he did what a good keeper should when faced with something he didn't know how to deal with - he took it to someone who should have.

The fact his vet didn't show the same common sense is not the OP's fault.


dr del

Getting stuck eyecaps off is a pretty easy thing to do yourself. Soak your snake for 15 to 30 minutes, then gently rub them off with a washcloth. You don't pick them off and you certainly don't do it when they're dry. Took me about 2 minutes to do it when I bought a snake with stuck eyecaps.

Perhaps you can tell us where you live so people can direct you to a herp vet.

I had a hypo female do the same thing. She had a stuck eye cap that the vet removed. Her eye looked like that. He gave me some meds to place on the eye ever day. After the next shed it returned to normal. It is just irritated and swollen from having the eye cap stuck on there.
I have had a snakes eye deflate on me before and it will happen quickly. Over a day maybe two and the eye will be completely gone.
Trey

I have seen this kind of damage before at the reptile shelter I volunteer at, I can almost guarantee what the vet did was to rip off the last eye cap that protected the eyeball itself, what they did was take off the retained caps as well as the last pair themselves, basically the vet skinned your poor snakes eyeballs... the cloudy rough surface of your snakes eyes is scabrous tissue that is hardening and attempting to heal the wound, unfortunately this will most likely permanently destroy your snakes vision, I would keep the tank maybe a little darker than usual, make sure the snake is warm to promote healing and carefully maintain proper humidity levels of around 60%

I am sorry to say this but I doubt it will ever heal properly, but even with seriously impaired vision or blindness, your ball python still has extremely sensitive heat sensors on her lips that will allow her to "see" in the infrared spectrum, plus an amazing sense of smell... With patience I am pretty sure your snake will recover enough to feed regularly even without the use of her eyes.

However this is just my opinion which I formed from the pics you posted, I would suggest you get to a real reptile vet immediately and get a professional opinion from someone who can examine the snake in person...

I hope that everything works out for the best for you and your snake, the two of you should still have another 20 or more happy years together!:snake:

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Originally Posted by swe3tm0mentz

i looked at the link you gave me with vets, good thing is the only one you have for virginia is in my area!

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Dr. Stahl is definitely who you want to take her to if you live close enough. He is considered one of the best reptile vets in the world.

The eyes look really bad, and like others who have posted, I'm afraid your previous vet damaged them. I'm not sure if you can sue, but I would definitely let the vet know, to hopefully prevent the same thing happening to other snakes.

The good news, as Judy pointed out, is that even if the snake is permanently blind in both eyes, BPs don't rely on their sight the same way humans do, and your snake should learn to cope more easily than you might imagine.

I think if the vet had to work for an hour to remove retained eye caps, I'd find another vet. Why would he "Pick" at the eyecaps? Not needed. A Q-Tip can be used. A wet towel can be used. Picking at a retained eyecap is down right dangerous.

I hope and pray that the snake will be okay.
Jim Smith

thanks everyone! i made an appointment today for dr. stahl. Lucy and i will be visiting him first thing tomorrow morning. i actually called the previous vet and lets just say it wasnt too pretty:D. i will keep everyone posted on the diagnosis!

Oh I am so glad to hear you are taking her to someone that really knows there stuff. I wish I could tell you I disagreed with everyone on this ...but wow....that is really hard to look at. The fact that he would "pick" at it just blows me away. Its an eyeball for gods sake...you dont pick. :weirdface I hope that all is well and that you and the DR. can save her eyes.

Good to hear that you'll be seeing Dr. Stahl. I'm sure he'll know the best thing to do. Please keep us updated!

i had one snake I rescued year or 3 ago that had an retain eye cap well when it cam off ( with soaking and all) the live part came with it some . i guess the cap had cut into the skin some and I was totally freaking out cause I was only rocking it back and forth wit hte finger gently and it just filps over like it was inverted and ther was blood and fluids. I almost dropped the poor snake . I was like wo what had happen was the edge had spilt as it fliped and cut the skin around the eye as it inverted and I got scared I left the snake alone on damp paper towels and used eye drops (I had soem from my contact dayss just plan setile fluid mainly t okee pthe eyes from drying out. well 3 sheds later it was all good and you never know looking at her . 3 months after that person adopted her ..

Here hoping for a you were all wrong post ( i be happy to be wrong about the possible eye damage). I need ot look into finding a vet that I ca ntrust more openly in DE .. ( makes a note to look for the link in the morning when I not hurting so much . )

Any update on this snake? I hope things are going ok. :please:

Yes, update please! Keeping fingers crossed that the damage isn't as severe as it looked.

well, the previous vet did pick off the layer of skin that she needed and the deflated eye will probably dry up and fall out:( but there is still a very slight chance itll fix its self. the good news is the other eye just has an extra eye cap on it and the next time she sheds itll come off. Dr. Stahl gave me some ointment to put on her eyes to help give her extra moisture to help the healing process. other than that shes healthy:banana:

Well, it's great to hear that she still has a semi-healthy eye and is overall healthy!!!:banana:

I had a really bad vet experience with my rabbit (which ultimately killed him) so yeah, learned my lesson (RIP Mr. Awulfs :tears:). I'm just glad your snake didn't have the same outcome!!! :banana::gj::banana::gj::banana:

So, anything that can be done about the "quack" vet?

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Originally Posted by swe3tm0mentz

well, the previous vet did pick off the layer of skin that she needed and the deflated eye will probably dry up and fall out:( but there is still a very slight chance itll fix its self. the good news is the other eye just has an extra eye cap on it and the next time she sheds itll come off. Dr. Stahl gave me some ointment to put on her eyes to help give her extra moisture to help the healing process. other than that shes healthy:banana:

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Have the new vet write a letter. Itemize the costs associated with this new vet visit. Have the new vet explain their findings.

Submit the letter to the quack vet and demand a refund of their fees and a re-embursement for the new vet fees.

I am glad that your snake is going to live. And I am even more happy that you have a good reptile vet in your area.

While you (and other posters) may be angry about the "quack" vet I think that trashing him/her is not the thing to do. Most vets are vets because they want to help animals. They go through lots of training and schooling BUT little to none of it actually has anything to do with herps. My vet told me her "exotics" training was 5 weeks long! For a vet to really be versed in herp medicine they have to actively seek out the training. I highly doubt that your original vet meant any harm what so ever to your snake.

If you can get a letter from the 2nd vet with the diagnosis I would submit it to the original vet. Maybe you can get an appointment and have a civilized talk with him/her. The ultimate goal should be to help the 1st vet become a more knowledgeable vet for herps. If you attack you will get nothing and possibly give the vet a good reason not to deal with herps at all. If you help him/her to learn you may get a partial/full refund and help some one grow and learn.

Good Luck!

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

Have the new vet write a letter. Itemize the costs associated with this new vet visit. Have the new vet explain their findings.

Submit the letter to the quack vet and demand a refund of their fees and a re-embursement for the new vet fees.

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That sounds like excellent advice to me. You can't really force the other vet to pay (maybe you could in court), but it should at least really get the bad vet's attention and hopefully the same bad medicine won't be practiced on another snake.

Glad to hear the other eye is ok and the snake is overall healthy!

nope, im not even going to bother the with the other vet. all i am going to do is right a nasty review or something, not too sure yet.

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Originally Posted by kellysballs

I am glad that your snake is going to live. And I am even more happy that you have a good reptile vet in your area.

While you (and other posters) may be angry about the "quack" vet I think that trashing him/her is not the thing to do. Most vets are vets because they want to help animals. They go through lots of training and schooling BUT little to none of it actually has anything to do with herps. My vet told me her "exotics" training was 5 weeks long! For a vet to really be versed in herp medicine they have to actively seek out the training. I highly doubt that your original vet meant any harm what so ever to your snake.

If you can get a letter from the 2nd vet with the diagnosis I would submit it to the original vet. Maybe you can get an appointment and have a civilized talk with him/her. The ultimate goal should be to help the 1st vet become a more knowledgeable vet for herps. If you attack you will get nothing and possibly give the vet a good reason not to deal with herps at all. If you help him/her to learn you may get a partial/full refund and help some one grow and learn.

Good Luck!

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If you don't know, you don't do. An Ear, Nose and Throat doctor wouldn't and shouldn't perform open heart surgery. A dog and cat doctor wouldn't and shouldn't perform Bovine examinations. This is what qualifications are for. You don't do something unless you are versed in that area. I could assume that even a vet technician wouldn't PICK at any animal's eyes. Why would anyone PICK at the eyes of a reptile? This is depraved indifference.
Yeah, I used two college words. But seriously, this vet knew not to do harm to this animal but they did.

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Originally Posted by swe3tm0mentz

nope, im not even going to bother the with the other vet. all i am going to do is right a nasty review or something, not too sure yet.

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

Have the new vet write a letter. Itemize the costs associated with this new vet visit. Have the new vet explain their findings.

Submit the letter to the quack vet and demand a refund of their fees and a re-embursement for the new vet fees.

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I would recommend you try to get some of your money back. You've spend a decent amount of money. Money that was wasted on the first vet and money that was unnecessary for the second vet. Either way, if you don't want this first vet to do this to another retile, you need to address this with him/her. You need to make them aware of their lack of knowledge and their lack of compassion for the animals they are butchering.

Good Luck!
Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by kellysballs

If you attack you will get nothing and possibly give the vet a good reason not to deal with herps at all. If you help him/her to learn you may get a partial/full refund and help some one grow and learn.

Good Luck!

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And how would it be a bad thing if he stopped dealing with herps? And as far as learning, I would think that he probably should have learned in vet school not to treat animals that he isn't qualified to work on!

i shall try to see if i can get my money back, and frankly i think it would be a good thing that this vet doesnt see another reptile again. she should not even consider seeing reptiles if she doesnt know enough about them and i would hate to see another snake suffer.

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Originally Posted by swe3tm0mentz

i shall try to see if i can get my money back, and frankly i think it would be a good thing that this vet doesnt see another reptile again. she should not even consider seeing reptiles if she doesnt know enough about them and i would hate to see another snake suffer.

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Good Luck!
Jim Smith

what state are u in?? this way u arent dropping any names, and people in that state know they should be careful about their vet choice

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Originally Posted by swe3tm0mentz

nope, im not even going to bother the with the other vet. all i am going to do is right a nasty review or something, not too sure yet.

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You definetly need to follow the advice of JH.....get the vet to write a letter. The other vet needs to know and quite frankly is responsible for the bills incurred. The vet that caused this NEEDS TO KNOW...so that he doesn't try this in the future. Bottom line he clearly did not know what he was doing therfore caused this issue. Now I clearly don't think he meant to hurt the animal...however...taking a guess and "winging it"...not acceptable.

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

what state are u in?? this way u arent dropping any names, and people in that state know they should be careful about their vet choice

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VA:salute:

so hows the lil guy doin?

she doing just fine, theres no way to tell how things are healing until the next time she sheds. that should be in a few weeks, besides the fact that right now shes currently blind in both eyes, shes moving around like nothing happened to her :bow:.

well i am glad to hear that. hope she recovers and stays happy, post an update or a pic after the shed

WOW!! her eye seems to be "reflating" already! i dont want to get my hopes up because for all i know it just might be getting ready to explode :O lol.

i also seemed to notice a yellowish brown discoloration on her belly scales (great all i need is this poor animal to now have scale rot) i found her this morning layin on her poo :weirdface. the scales that are dicolored look kind of cracked and dry i want to say.. not really sure how to describe it. i doubt i can get a good enough quality picture of it.

i just went to the vet!! im sure if it was anything bad he would have noticed?!:confused: Dr. Stahl is great and everything, but what comes with his greatness is also a large fee. i do NOT have anymore money to take this poor baby to the vet AGAIN especially within a few days of just being there.

would it be a bad idea to wait untill she sheds to see if it comes off? i have also been putting some neosporin on it (i read online it can cure mild cases of scale rot) and if she doesnt have scale rot will neosporin cause more issues?

i dont know much about scale rot, but i would think if u kept her warm and dry and kept neosporin on it then it will help. did u try giving her a bath for like 15 minutes? keep an eye on it and hopefully someone else will chime in who has had experience with it

If it's just a few scales or small area, I would wait it out. Clean the area and keep her warm and dry. A clean paper substrate would be best. If it doesn't improve by the next shed (or if it grows steadily worse in the meantime) then it may need a vet's attention.

If it's a significant portion of her belly and/or if there is any nasty discharge associated with it, you will probably need antibiotics to fight it off and prevent a possible systemic infection.

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Originally Posted by JLC

If it's just a few scales or small area, I would wait it out. Clean the area and keep her warm and dry. A clean paper substrate would be best. If it doesn't improve by the next shed (or if it grows steadily worse in the meantime) then it may need a vet's attention.

If it's a significant portion of her belly and/or if there is any nasty discharge associated with it, you will probably need antibiotics to fight it off and prevent a possible systemic infection.

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what can i use to clean the area? i dont want to think i know what im doing and mess it up by using something that should not be used on snakes.

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Originally Posted by swe3tm0mentz

what can i use to clean the area? i dont want to think i know what im doing and mess it up by using something that should not be used on snakes.

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Betadine and polysporin 3 times daily to clean