Breeding normals?

Does it bug you when you hear of people breeding normals?
My personal though is, there are too many normals in the world, and we should try to limit getting more. Not saying we should put them down, but instead of norm x norm breeding, do norm to pastel.

Whats everyone's opinion?

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Originally Posted by fiend_fo_lyfe

does it bug you when you hear of people breeding normals?
My personal though is, there are too many normals in the world, and we should try to limit getting more. Not saying we should put them down, but instead of norm x norm breeding, do norm to pastel.

Whats everyone's opinion?

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wow.

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Originally Posted by DarkComeSoon

wow.

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I mean, it may sound bad, but look at how many normals are on craigslist, and being rescued.

you never see a pied in need of rescuing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FIEND_FO_LYFE

Does it bug you when you hear of people breeding normals?
My personal though is, there are too many normals in the world, and we should try to limit getting more. Not saying we should put them down, but instead of norm x norm breeding, do norm to pastel.

Whats everyone's opinion?

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Nope not in the least... in fact I think we need more CBB normals. I think that reducing our demand for imported everyday pet store normals and replacing them with high quality captive bred babies would boost the ability of people to enjoy them with out many of the hassles that imports can bring.

Thanks for your input.
I wasn't trying to start a controversial thread, just would like everyone's standpoint on it...

I think there is a huge demand for normals, and without them we wouldn't be here today.

But, i see literally hundreds of BPs in need to rescuing a year...

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Originally Posted by FIEND_FO_LYFE

Thanks for your input.
I wasn't trying to start a controversial thread, just would like everyone's standpoint on it...

I think there is a huge demand for normals, and without them we wouldn't be here today.

But, i see literally hundreds of BPs in need to rescuing a year...

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No controversy at all.. I also hate to see them up for adoption. I think however that is due to their relativity inexpensive Pet-Store price. They are cute little impulse buys for many people and when folks figure out they don't just go belly up like a Gold fish after a year or two or die in their sleep like the Pet hamster then pet loose interest and have to get rid of them..

Want to cut down on that if pet stores would stop selling them for 35.00 and ask 100.00 for one you'd see far less of that I'm sure.

Yeah, that would help i guess, i think my biggest pet peve is people breeding normals and selling them on craigslist etc.

Its not the animals fault whatsoever that some of the people are irresponsible...

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Originally Posted by FIEND_FO_LYFE

Thanks for your input.
I wasn't trying to start a controversial thread, just would like everyone's standpoint on it...

I think there is a huge demand for normals, and without them we wouldn't be here today.

But, i see literally hundreds of BPs in need to rescuing a year...

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When I volunteer I notice we have a lot of normals, and I don't even think we have a different morph other than a normal. When the Texas Seizure reptiles came in, there were definitely more than 20 normals in the truck.

During Fall, I may be breeding my normals, but I will only sell to those who I know will take good care of them. I'm picky about where my BPs are going, and I plan to only be a small breeder so it's not like I'm going to sell to just anyone. I don't want one of my babies going to a home where they will be mistreated, put on CL, or be killed from poor husbandry. Just my input.

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Originally Posted by FIEND_FO_LYFE

I mean, it may sound bad, but look at how many normals are on craigslist, and being rescued.

you never see a pied in need of rescuing.

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Yes I have and it was in horrible condition.

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Originally Posted by FIEND_FO_LYFE

Yeah, that would help i guess, i think my biggest pet peve is people breeding normals and selling them on craigslist etc.

Its not the animals fault whatsoever that some of the people are irresponsible...

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Well than looking at it this way I think everyone should also stop breeding their single dom and co dom male to normal females as well :rolleyes:

What's next? When Pastels will be in every pet store and on Craigslist should people also stop to breed those :confused:

This is a great hobby and breeding whether it is a high end morph to a normal or a normal to a normal is a great rewarding experience and I don't see why people should refrain from doing it because someone is bothered by it.

Everyone should be entitled to breed what THEY want.

Here is the pied that is not my snake.
http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/mis...ht=rescue+pied
scroll down.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Well than looking at it this way I think everyone should also stop breeding their single dom and co dom male to normal females as well :rolleyes:

What's next? When Pastels will be in every pet store and on Craigslist should people also stop to breed those :confused:

This is a great hobby and breeding whether it is a high end morph to a normal or a normal to a normal is a great rewarding experience and I don't see why people should refrain from doing it because someone is bothered by it.

Everyone should be entitled to breed what THEY want.

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Im not saying we shouldnt get them, just saying, why breed a animal that is currently everywhere else?
It seems like a bit of overkill ya know?

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Originally Posted by DarkComeSoon

Here is the pied that is not my snake.
http://www.redtailboa.net/forums/mis...ht=rescue+pied
scroll down.

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Yes, you proved that there has been a pied in need of rescuing, but out of how many normals...

so out of thousands of normals, there is a pied...

They are out there... but FAR from common.

:confused:

I'll agree to stop breeding normal ball pythons when the human race agrees to stop breeding idiots. :rolleyes:

It's not the availablility or genetics of the snake that makes it turn up on craigslist. :colbert:


dr del

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Originally Posted by dr del

:confused:

I'll agree to stop breeding normal ball pythons when the human race agrees to stop breeding idiots. :rolleyes:

It's not the availablility or genetics of the snake that makes it turn up on craigslist. :colbert:


dr del

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LOL I like this post!!

This is a product of the "instant" society we live in today. Many people go into a store, find something to their liking and buy it. Well, not really, they let the bank buy it and they make monthly payments on it. Then they go into a store and their kid sees something they like and they buy it on the credit card. Then they go into a pet store and see a nice little $40 snake, so they buy it. Don't know anything about it, but they like it, so they buy it.

I bet if pet stores didn't accept credit cards, a lot of these purchases would never happen. Work for your money, only spend the money that you have and I bet you become a more informed buyer.

I didn't mean to turn this into a life-lesson post, but buying with your own money is a thing of the past. But I bet it would fix the rehoming issues of today.

:salute:
Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by dr del

:confused:

I'll agree to stop breeding normal ball pythons when the human race agrees to stop breeding idiots. :rolleyes:

It's not the availablility or genetics of the snake that makes it turn up on craigslist. :colbert:


dr del

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I compleatly agree with Dr Del on this. Besides if all we breed is the upper end morphs then before too long there will be lots of morphs. That will in turn bring down the the price. Would you rather see a normal for $50 or something like a mojave, pastel or something like that. The way things are now pastels are almost down around that.
Besides by your logic should we stop breeding dogs then to unless its a certin type? I see more posts for dogs then snakes.

I currently plan to purposely breed two normals that I have because they are very well matched reduced pattern animals. I think that is as valid a breeding project as breeding morphs, which I also plan to do. Normals are anyway needed to stop/reduce inbreeding in morphs and I'm not sure that the odd 'normal' produced from breeding co-doms or recessives counts for this purpose as it obviously carries some of the genes in common with the morphs, just not maybe colour influencing ones.

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Originally Posted by Raverthug

I compleatly agree with Dr Del on this. Besides if all we breed is the upper end morphs then before too long there will be lots of morphs. That will in turn bring down the the price. Would you rather see a normal for $50 or something like a mojave, pastel or something like that. The way things are now pastels are almost down around that.
Besides by your logic should we stop breeding dogs then to unless its a certin type? I see more posts for dogs then snakes.

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the problem i see is that dogs are a socially acceptable pet. almost everybody that has a pet has a dog or a cat. MOST people, when they hear that i have a snake they'll say "dude, you're so weird".
plus, when you have petstores selling normals for 50 bucks, it becomes a magnet for foolish and irresponsible people. They get the snake and then either the snake dies, or they release it and then they are found and rescued and put up for adoption.
this leads to abandoned animals and the government complaining and wanting to ban our pets because they think ALL snake/reptile owners are wishy washy irresponsible people who let go of their animals as soon as they get tired or can't handle them.

I would like to see all the Major petstores stop selling snakes in general and see people start buying more from private breeders. it helps the economy, plus the quality of the animal is on a whole other level. and, since a breeder will most likely charge more for a snake than a large petstore would (ex: petsmart/i saw a normal ball for $65!) it would become a turn off to the imbecils who think it would be cool to own a snake and then they get rid of it once their fancy dies.

we should be trying to EDUCATE people on the special requirements these animals have. that way we can filter out the FOOLS from the intelligent people willing to dedicate the time and expense to properly raise and take care of these animals.

The reason that there are so many normals is not because people breed them, but because of the huge amount of captive hatched imported every year into the United States. This is why normals go for $5.

I was out shopping recently and I see them for anywhere from 60-85. Most were captive breed normals, but at that price it makes it hard to resist buying on an impulse. I saw the absolutely cutest little 4 month old on sale at one for $80. I almost got em.
I know the major chain stores that get them in dont even know the sex, just a relative age, but the ones I have been to seem to take good care of them. Anyone really serious and not impluse I would think would want to know weight, eating habits, sex, and age before purchasing.

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

No controversy at all.. I also hate to see them up for adoption. I think however that is due to their relativity inexpensive Pet-Store price. They are cute little impulse buys for many people and when folks figure out they don't just go belly up like a Gold fish after a year or two or die in their sleep like the Pet hamster then pet loose interest and have to get rid of them..

Want to cut down on that if pet stores would stop selling them for 35.00 and ask 100.00 for one you'd see far less of that I'm sure.

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I guess following the logic of some people here any snake that is at a low price should not be bred :rolleyes:

Bye-Bye Cornsnakes, Kingsnakes, Milksnakes because I guess people should not breed those either. :rolleyes:

The bottom line an animal's price tag or paint job as nothing to do with it's likeliness to end up being neglected, or abandoned, it has to do with the irresponsibility of the owner and the fact that some people get tired and decide to move on, it happen's whether people spend $20 or $1000+ on an animal.

People trying to control what people should be able to own or to breed is really what's wrong here :gj:

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Originally Posted by Deborah

People trying to control what people should be able to own or to breed is really what's wrong here :gj:

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HSUS, PETA, Sen. Nelson...

Reading through this. My question is if we stopped breeding normals. That means you would have to spend more for your bp. But how many people here started off with normals? Im sure alot of people would stray away if they had to spend alot more on a morph due to lack of normals. I bet most people started with normals.

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Originally Posted by FIEND_FO_LYFE

I mean, it may sound bad, but look at how many normals are on craigslist, and being rescued.

you never see a pied in need of rescuing.

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Nope, but you would if there weren't so many normals. Too many morphs floods the market, lowers the prices, then suddenly morphs are nothing special and you'd find pieds in need of rescuing.

Normals are prevalent and inexpensive. We live in a society that, unfortunately, has a "disposable pet" attitude towards most animals. These are the people who readily buy (or convince a parent to buy) the cute and inexpensive normal baby they saw at a pet store or a reptile show and the same people that decide a few weeks, months, or years later that they don't have the time for the animal and want to get rid of it.

High quality morphs are certainly cute but not inexpensive and not likely to be the impulse buy that turns into a neglected animal advertised on CL. People who invest the money into quality morphs are usually invested in its care and long term well-being.

You find poorly cared for animals on sites like Craigslist and Kijiji all the time and this wouldn't be the case if more people put forth some effort in educating themselves about the basic care needed for the animal(s) in question. A little self control wouldn't hurt either. People need to stop feeling cash burning in their pockets as soon as they spot a nice looking animal for sale.

I bred my normals last year, and they produced 9 good-looking eggs. It was my first clutch of ball python eggs ever, and I have to say that I am really glad I wasn't breeding my albinos or my leucistic at that time, because my incubator didn't work right, and I lost the entire clutch..... but I gained some practical experience out of it. This year my normals are breeding again, and I plan to do things differently. The fancy incubator that failed me will be programmed differently, and I will probably only incubate half of the clutch in it. The other half will be done in my low-tech Hovabator that has never failed me with corn snake eggs. So, hopefully this year my normal hatchlings will survive and I will get to practice with getting them started on feeding and have babies available for people who are wanting them. So, my hope is that next year when some of my morph pythons are ready to start breeding, I will really know what I am doing and be fully prepared for them.

I would like to comment on this as well. I have 1.1 normals that I plan on breeding when the female is ready(3 years, then 1500grams if she isn't already) but I have good reason to. I like normals! I selectively bought my normals because they are the best I have seen available. Very bright and yellow, even moreso then many pastels. I also want to make NICE normals available to the "new hobbiest" because I think that it might have a better chance than a boring brown normal. People who start owning snakes don't generally want to start by paying thousands or even hundreds of dollars, but they also want a pretty snake. I plan to provide just that. Nice snakes that are affordable. It's a choice I've made, if I don't sell any, then I am just as happy to keep them all, but I doubt it will come to that. New people are starting into snakes just about everyday, why not let them have the choice to get a nice one? I'm sure they will. I also don't see why it should matter, if I want to produce normals, then so be it. Nothing anyone can do to stop me. Simple as that. ~Caylan.S.~

I actually totally disagree and think MORE normals should be bred, and made MORE available than the wild-caught specimens. If the control of the animals lies in responsible breeders, not only will fewer animals be imported and live in harsh/unsuitable conditions, but breeders can educate CORRECTLY those who in all likelihood want to provide the right kind of care for their animals.

a huge amount of animals are in bad condition because pet shops gave bad advice. imagine if everyone of those people had the right advice from the get-go. more captive bred, healthy snakes.... what's wrong with that?

I think the disposable pet thing happens with ALL pets. You don't see the dog and cat thing on craigs list as much because ppl just drop them off at some shelter I think. If ppl would do more research on pets prior to getting them then maybe they would be a little more responsible. But yea....I can preach all day about that. :rolleyes:

I personally would be sad if we stopped breeding normals. I have to say outta my 5 snakes.....Elizabeth my normal is still my fav....all bps including normals are so very different within their own morph or non morph way. All colors are different....attitudes....markings...etc.

you gotta love the normals, they're all different in their own way. i plan on breeding my normals also when goliath reaches his weight, he has some of the nicest blushings i've seen on a normal, pics do him no justice. i love all my pets but i gotta say that goliath is my favorite.

Theo is a fine upstanding chap...

As far as my breeding projects go, I will never breed a normal. As my collection grows, single gene codoms won't be bred either unless it's to a homozygous codom or visual recessive. There are a few exceptions to this rule, but this is where you're talking about a GHI, Banana or HG Woma types of snakes. This is because I want the best examples of some of the more expensive morphs available and it would be hard to afford those if I'm just producing normals, pastels, & cinny's.

On the flip side, I agree with Ed's first post. I do think we should try to get more US CBB animals into the market to lessen the amount of imports we as keepers use and also to help new keepers be able to have the ability to raise CBB normals if that is what they want. However, ball python wrangling is a market in Africa that many people depend on for their livelihood and they will continue catch ball pythons whether it's for food or skin or pet trade.

So, basically what I'm saying is. I could care less if other people want to breed normals, if that's what makes them happy, then all the better. I just won't be one of those people that chooses to do that.

actually, there are an amazing amount of dogs/cats on CL, I'd say more than any other animal.

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Originally Posted by FIEND_FO_LYFE

Im not saying we shouldnt get them, just saying, why breed a animal that is currently everywhere else?
It seems like a bit of overkill ya know?

Yes, you proved that there has been a pied in need of rescuing, but out of how many normals...

so out of thousands of normals, there is a pied...

They are out there... but FAR from common.

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Well, I've been helping out with reptile rescue for over 10 years and I can tell you that I've seen plenty of expensive animals of many different species and morphs that come in in rough shape. Yes, you do see more normal ball pythons, or normal boas or normal corn snakes, but that's because they're ARE more of them. I used to see a lot more Green Iguanas or Normal Burms coming in, but those species have declined, not because they're suddenly easier to take care of, but because they're just not as popular as they used to be so they are fewer in number.

I think that there is a HUGE trap that ANYONE who does animal rescue of any kind has a danger of falling into. In any kind of a rescue situation you do tend to see animals that are in very rough shape and are on deaths doorstep. seeing this kind of thing can break your heart and make you feel very uncharitable against your fellow man. Unfortunatly I think that this is where an awful lot of animal rights activists come from. However, people who see this dark side of pet keeping are not seeing the whole picture. For any animal that comes in with problems from mistreatment, there are hundreds of others out there that are in great shape and are well loved and well taken care of.

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Originally Posted by kfuentes

Theo is a lamo...

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Wow... Thats quite immature.


This thread was not started because i wanted to be bashed.
I merely asked a question i knew many had strong feelings about, and that is why i wanted to hear.

comments such as this, just makes me think that you don't need to be on this forum.

Thank you all who posted a valid opinion, and did not bash mine.
we all have the right to express our valid opinion, but childish name calling, and "I'm right, your wrong" type statements are unneeded.

It doesn't bother me. If you think about it, even if you breed a pastel to a normal, you may only get 1 pastel and 6 normals. This isn't helping to reduce normals at all. Normal males are pretty much worthless to breeders, but for people who want a pet ball python-there will always be plenty of those people-they don't care if it's a normal male or female.

What bothers me is that shelters won't let breeders adopt ball pythons. I've been blacklisted from the shelter in my area because I let it slip that I was a breeder. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by kfuentes

Theo is a lamo...

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I never thought of Theo as a Lame-o, at least he knows how to spell (most of the time)

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Originally Posted by Isis

It doesn't bother me. If you think about it, even if you breed a pastel to a normal, you may only get 1 pastel and 6 normals. This isn't helping to reduce normals at all. Normal males are pretty much worthless to breeders, but for people who want a pet ball python-there will always be plenty of those people-they don't care if it's a normal male or female.

What bothers me is that shelters won't let breeders adopt ball pythons. I've been blacklisted from the shelter in my area because I let it slip that I was a breeder. :rolleyes:

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I agree, i should have made myself more clear.
I am breeding norms,with pastels, lessers etc... and expect to get MANY normals. Its not that I'm going to treat them any different, its the same animal, with a different look. I have 3 normals, 4 if you include my Het. that's not including the rest of my family's normals.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

I never thought of Theo as a Lame-o, at least he knows how to spell (most of the time)

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:rofl: Thanks man.

Very interesting topic. I know I may get grief for this.

Since I help with our local rescue and here in Washington State we are actually turning down ball python because of the overwhelming amount of them always coming in and not enough foster homes to help with them. We always have from what I recall being told somewhere of about 20+ every time in the need of good homes.

I would have to say maybe yes to stop...
BUT...let me explain since we go to so many shows and each year I see it getting full of BP morphs and with each given year we see a larger amount of morph BP breeding so with each clutch we still get normal’s right? So we will not stop breeding normal CB.
Maybe we will have the right amount of BP or more closer to the number in demand and not to over populate, that rescues societies are overwhelmed with them.
I am here because I fell head over heels in love with a normal ball python and I would NEVER change that and I would NEVER want to take that gift away from anyone.
So I stand astray from this in one way I want normal to be breed and another side of me feels because there are so many in rescues that maybe breeding normal to normal is not necessary when we have so many clutches of morphs.

Again I am on both sides of the fence.

Actually, I wish MORE people would breed normals--breed them for desirable characteristics. I would love to see people breeding normal balls for temperament, consistent feeding, good growth rate, and size.

If you were a morph breeder, and you were offered 2 options-- a lot of 10 ball python females of average size and disposition, for $500, OR, a lot of 10 ball python females over 2500 grams ea with good temperaments, that are consistant feeders on FT rats, with good clean markings and colors for $1500, which lot would you choose for pairing with your morphs?

The issue with reptile rescues is a local issue--in some areas of the country, it may be as Warocker's says--many balls in need of new homes, and not enough to take them--but in many other areas, the opposite is true--balls don't last a day once they're made available, because many people want them. I have one ball python that I took in for free. She's the only one I have ever seen offered, and she's now part of my breeding collection.

Once I have my collection where I need it to be (I am a business, after all), I am going to breed some normals. These will be selective breeding programs to produce normals with the traits I want--docile and reliable temperament, fast growth, larger size, large clutch size, and good, clean patterning. These will be the normals I'll want to pair with morphs that I acquire. I want to improve morph lines by adding in quality normal lines.

WingedWolfPsion I really think u make some good points. I have to say it does matter what u have in your local area ect. Here in my area there seems to be a lot of free snakes. In fact I have personally taken in quite a few. From a few burms to a handful of ball pythons, rat snakes..The list goes on. Just yesterday someone put on our local craigslist a free rainbow boa.
So maybe it’s the areas.. Also I think the economy right now is tough too and so I don’t disagree with careful selecting who and what u breed.

I think this is a great thread... not sure why many people jumped on Theo for starting the thread and seeing what people think.
FIEND_FO_LYFE - kudos to u for starting the thread I have really enjoyed learning others point of views on the subject even though some have given u a hard time. I thank u!

Another scenario... Guy new to snakes falls for a pet store normal. Takes it home. Starts researching BPs online and at the shows. Realizes he has a 'lame normal, and the 'cool guys' all have morphs. He falls for the hype and now his normal is disposeable and he turns into a morph collector.

Given the popularity of recessives in particular, I'm worried that in a few more generations of pied-to-pied breeding we're going wind up with some pretty inbred animals. Normal-to-normal breedings mean that we'll have still have access to a decent genetic diversity that we can use for outcrossing when our dreamsicles start laying only slugs.

I would have to say I think that breeding normal to normal is fine. I have never bred normal to normal. All of my breedings have been at least co-dom to normal. I do have some dinkers that are siblings I plan on breeding just to see if something comes out of the pairing. If they produce all normals then I guess I will have bred normal to normal...LOL

As for the general ball python community I think it is fine and has several benefits.
It would help Reduce the market dependency on imports. I know that Co-dom to normal will still produce a percentage of normals but if we were producing enough normals then why continue importing mass numbers of normals from Africa? I do know that for some profit minded people the Cost of cheap imports they can turn and wholesale compared to the higher price of Captive Bred will always be a factor.

Breeding Normal to Normal can be good breeding experience for 1st time breeders who don't want to invest in a morph/morphs to try their hands at breeding.

With Captive bred normals the possible issues with Shipping Stress, Parasites, ect. are not as much of a concern.

I do not think that completely stopping importation should happen. It would be nice to still be able to get new genetic mutations brought in from Africa. Also I would not want a general law to stop importation of farmed or wild caught animals to stop our ability to import quality Captive bred animals from other countries (Canada, European countries, ect.)

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Originally Posted by FIEND_FO_LYFE

Does it bug you when you hear of people breeding normals?
My personal though is, there are too many normals in the world, and we should try to limit getting more. Not saying we should put them down, but instead of norm x norm breeding, do norm to pastel.

Whats everyone's opinion?

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Kind of hypocritical. Almost every dom co-dom pairing you do you will get a normal. No way around it and some normals have the best patterns ive seen.

To say normals are to be stopped being bred would in turn put pastels next in line, then spiders and so on. it would be a never ending cycle of knocking off the weakest link. Breed what you want to what you want.

I dont care if its a normal or albino, but either way i get excited to see them piping out of the eggs.

normal
dont forget it started all with normal
and sorry but 20-30k for a new morph
its just sick
ok ik ont have the money
but i dont spend 30k on a new morph
and i dont want it
i like dark choco sable black back
but a banana hidden gen woma for 20k
nooooooooooooooooo
what the hells with just a normal

I actually think a lot of the morph breeding has led to ignoring what may be more important traits in these snakes. I'm talking about temperament, feeding consistency, etc.

The 'basic chassis' has fallen by the wayside while people enthuse over the 'paint jobs', as it were. ;)

Why settle for a high-end morph that eats mice every 3rd Tuesday when the wind is blowing, and bites you when you change her water bowl? People are throwing their morphs with any old normal female they can find--and even if they select good ones, that's still just one generation of 'good', and you have no idea what's lurking in that animal's lineage. The only way to fix that in the long run is to produce lines of good normals, and keep better track of the lineages of the normals that are produced from morph breedings.

The issue of too many normals is not solvable plain and simple. The only way to make any headway on it is to accept with open arms all the laws that restrict there import, and interstate trafficking as well as enforcing ridiculous laws regarding the breeding and sale of the animals. Lets break the problem down.

Normal Ball Pythons are cheap and so people buy them with little thought. Since we can't make people smarter the only solution is for Normal Ball Pythons to be more expensive.

The only think that will make Normals more expensive is to increase their demand or decrease their supply. Since increasing their demand will not fix the original problem of people buying them without thinking we need to decrease their supply.

No we come back to the original post of the OP should we discourage breeding of normal to normal. And the answer is. It doesn't matter. If we breed less normals then more normals will be imported.

Ok so maybe the answer as has been suggested is to breed more normals because then we can push out the importers. Nope that won't work either. The people importing BP's are making a huge profit and can afford to under cut local breeders. The price that we pay for Normals at big pet stores is not set by the cost of the snake. Its set by the highest price they can charge and still sell all the snakes they catch or hatch. So if the market is flooded with locally bred normals then the importers will drop prices and still make a great profit only making the problem worse.

So if anyone sees any flaws in my argument I would love to hear them but the way I see it. The problem is something that can't be solved. Its like wanting everyone to be rich. Its just not possible. The best we can hope for is to keep the problem from getting too bad.

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Originally Posted by f4n70m

Reading through this. My question is if we stopped breeding normals. That means you would have to spend more for your bp. But how many people here started off with normals? Im sure alot of people would stray away if they had to spend alot more on a morph due to lack of normals. I bet most people started with normals.

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Yep... I spent $50 on my first BP, a normal, and wouldn't have spent much more! I was awed by the gorgeous albino they had, but wasn't about to drop $800 (or whatever they were charging) on my first snake - not even knowing yet if I'd enjoy owning one. :cool:

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Originally Posted by wafisherman

Another scenario... Guy new to snakes falls for a pet store normal. Takes it home. Starts researching BPs online and at the shows. Realizes he has a 'lame normal, and the 'cool guys' all have morphs. He falls for the hype and now his normal is disposeable and he turns into a morph collector.

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I went through that exact process of thought, except for one thing... I still love my first snake, and the other two normals I've gotten since. NO animal/snake is disposable to me, and hopefully others here would agree. :gj: Even if I did decide I no longer needed normals, I'd be considerate enough to find them a good new home.