Substrate

I went from using the carpet type substrate to using aspen bedding several weeks ago. The problem my ball seems to be having is that when he strikes at prey he gets it caught in his mouth. What I am wondering is, is what else I can use as substrate that would be better than aspen shavings. I had thought about sand but not sure about it. Any ideas?

You can use FREE newspaper.

why dont you feed your ball in a seperate enclosure?

my ball is in a tank with a coconut fiber and moss substrate to keep the humidity up

but every tuesday at 2:30PM i take her out and put her in a empty Pabst Blue Ribbon case lined with paper towels...I drop the mosue in,she strikes...she eats, I put her back in cage,no worries

it's a good habit to have,it helps them associate that your hand is not food,should you reach into the tank

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Originally Posted by Tiny_loves_Roxanne

why dont you feed your ball in a seperate enclosure?

my ball is in a tank with a coconut fiber and moss substrate to keep the humidity up

but every tuesday at 2:30PM i take her out and put her in a empty Pabst Blue Ribbon case lined with paper towels...I drop the mosue in,she strikes...she eats, I put her back in cage,no worries

it's a good habit to have,it helps them associate that your hand is not food,should you reach into the tank

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To the op do not use sand for a bp, you can use newspaper, paper towels. To the above post I have never had a bp associate my hand with food unless I smell like rat.

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Originally Posted by Tiny_loves_Roxanne

why dont you feed your ball in a seperate enclosure?

my ball is in a tank with a coconut fiber and moss substrate to keep the humidity up

but every tuesday at 2:30PM i take her out and put her in a empty Pabst Blue Ribbon case lined with paper towels...I drop the mosue in,she strikes...she eats, I put her back in cage,no worries

it's a good habit to have,it helps them associate that your hand is not food,should you reach into the tank

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I have to disagree. Why not feed in the enclosure? What purpose does it serve to remove a snake from its enviroment just to feed it? If anything it will add to the stress level of the snake.

I don't understand how putting your hand in the tank would make your snake associate your hand as food. If anything, you going into the tank to get the snake out is associating the snake with feeding time. What happens when you get the snake out for other purposes? Will the snake think that every time it's being removed from its tank, it's going to get fed?

Jim Smith

Continue feeding in the enclosure....it is less hassel and less stress for the snake. When we use to use substrate.....we put down a papertowel prior to feeding as we had the same problem.

Now we use paper towels and I have to say....I LOVE IT!!!!!! It is so clean and if they have a urate or a poo....I can clean it up immediately and document it.

Ingesting a little bit of substrate is not a big deal. If you are particularly worried, you can use paper towels or newspaper.

Or you could lay down some paper towels or newspaper prior to feeding.

The argument that feeding outside the enclosure will teach your snake to not associate your hand with feeding makes no sense. Feeding outside the enclosure to reduce substrate ingestion is fine but it really is not a big deal to ingest substrate from time to time. They rarely get impacted.

My BP ate some substrate about an hour ago.

He struck at the mouse but missed and got a mouth full of repti bark and slammed his head against the side of the tank. At first I thought he dislocated his jaw since he hit the side of the tank so hard but he was having problems due to having so much substrate in his mouth.

I took my snake out of his tank and was able to get all but one piece out of his mouth. He swallowed one piece of repti bark.

He appeared to be fine so I put him back in his tank and he struck at the mouse again and he did his business as usual. After he swallowed it I put in a second and he took it also.

The piece of repti bark my snake swallowed won't hurt him right?

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

I have to disagree. Why not feed in the enclosure? What purpose does it serve to remove a snake from its enviroment just to feed it? If anything it will add to the stress level of the snake.

I don't understand how putting your hand in the tank would make your snake associate your hand as food. If anything, you going into the tank to get the snake out is associating the snake with feeding time. What happens when you get the snake out for other purposes? Will the snake think that every time it's being removed from its tank, it's going to get fed?

Jim Smith

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No...cause snakes supposedly can be taught a time regement...that if you feed them a certain time of day at a certain time of the week, they'll know its feeding day

also my ball doesnt seem stressed when i put her in the box,she just stays in the middle and waits to eat,and when she's done i send her right back into the hot side...

plus I don't where people are getting its ok for them to get substrate in their mouth,isnt that one of the bigger causes of RI? so I guess if your snake does eat some substrate make sure its not stuck in their mouth and that they've digested it

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Originally Posted by Tiny_loves_Roxanne

No...cause snakes supposedly can be taught a time regement...that if you feed them a certain time of day at a certain time of the week, they'll know its feeding day

also my ball doesnt seem stressed when i put her in the box,she just stays in the middle and waits to eat,and when she's done i send her right back into the hot side...

plus I don't where people are getting its ok for them to get substrate in their mouth,isnt that one of the bigger causes of RI? so I guess if your snake does eat some substrate make sure its not stuck in their mouth and that they've digested it

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I used to feed my largest Ball python in a separate tub, she would get so excited to know it's feeding time. When I got my second Ball python, he only ate once in a tub. After that he started refusing because it caused him so much stress. I dangled the F/T hopper in front of him in his enclosure and he took it without hesitation because he felt more comfortable eating in his home.

Breeders cannot take all of their Ball pythons out of their homes into separate tubs to feed because there is way too many snakes and takes up too much time. I can name a few breeders who use loose substrate like cypress mulch or aspen bedding and have no problem with impaction when they feed their pythons.

Ball pythons can be easily stressed so some don't do so well when being fed outside of the places they feel most secure. I would be freaked out to be in the middle of a clear open tub with a big giant shoving food in my face. All of my snakes are on aspen bedding (besides my Blood, she's on cypress mulch) and I haven't ever had a problem with impaction when one of them swallowed a bit of substrate.

No, substrate being swallowed does not cause an RI. It causes impaction, a blocking in the intestines. Sand, soil, dirt, and other really loose substrates can cause impaction because it is so easy to swallow a large amount of it. Those substrates should not be used anyway.

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Originally Posted by joHtoD3

I went from using the carpet type substrate to using aspen bedding several weeks ago. The problem my ball seems to be having is that when he strikes at prey he gets it caught in his mouth. What I am wondering is, is what else I can use as substrate that would be better than aspen shavings. I had thought about sand but not sure about it. Any ideas?

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To the OP, sorry for the thread hijack. Aspen shavings are just fine, all of my Ball pythons and colubrids are on that and I haven't had a problem with them getting impacted.

I've had my Kingsnake for probably 3 years now and he's always had aspen bedding. I haven't had one problem with him becoming impacted. If you do feel uncomfortable using aspen bedding, I would try something more solid such as newspaper, Kraft paper, or paper towels.

All are a pretty good choice and easy to clean up, but I guess I just prefer using aspen bedding after using paper towels and cleaning up soiled snake newspaper when I volunteer.

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Originally Posted by Tiny_loves_Roxanne

No...cause snakes supposedly can be taught a time regement...that if you feed them a certain time of day at a certain time of the week, they'll know its feeding day

also my ball doesnt seem stressed when i put her in the box,she just stays in the middle and waits to eat,and when she's done i send her right back into the hot side...

plus I don't where people are getting its ok for them to get substrate in their mouth,isnt that one of the bigger causes of RI? so I guess if your snake does eat some substrate make sure its not stuck in their mouth and that they've digested it

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Why would you want to teach your snake a "time regement"? Why not feed them more naturally? Feed them in their home. Feed them without the stress of being picked up and removed from their home then into somewhere else, just to get a meal.

I don't know how you can determine if your snake is stressed or not. If you can do that, you need to find a university to conduct a study on your technic. All snakes can be stressed without ever showing it.

You say you return the snake to it's home right after it eats. You don't think that stresses the snake?

Where have you learned that ingested substraste is the cause of RI? I've never heard of that before. They could possibly get impacted if they ate ALOT of substrate. However their stomach acids are so strong, that very rarely happens.

In the wild, snakes are always ingesting more than their prey item. Leaves, sticks, grass, dirt, etc are all eaten by snakes. Again, it's stomach acids usually takes care of all of this. Ideally you would want your snake to eat just it's prey item, but ideally you'd never have a snake miss a meal or have a bad shed either, but it happens.

I'm not saying you can't do this with your snake, I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong. But in my opinion, removing a snake into a fedder tub is a more stressful way of feeding a snake. If it works for you, that's fine.

Jim Smith

Aspen is fine, and continue feeding him in his enclosure. He'll be just fine. Jim gave some great advice.

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Originally Posted by Tiny_loves_Roxanne

No...cause snakes supposedly can be taught a time regement...that if you feed them a certain time of day at a certain time of the week, they'll know its feeding day

also my ball doesnt seem stressed when i put her in the box,she just stays in the middle and waits to eat,and when she's done i send her right back into the hot side...

plus I don't where people are getting its ok for them to get substrate in their mouth,isnt that one of the bigger causes of RI? so I guess if your snake does eat some substrate make sure its not stuck in their mouth and that they've digested it

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My snakes know when feeding day is. They are in feed mode as soon as I enter the room. Which means if I went to pick them up and move them to another container, I would most certainly get bit. I feed all my snakes in their home enclosures, handle them regularly, and I have never been bit. I use paper towels as substrate so I have had no issues with substrate ingestion.

To be clear, substrate ingestion does not cause respiratory infections. Having a stuck piece of substrate in the mouth for a long time can cause mouth rot but it is rather rare. Impaction is also quite rare with these species since they are built to digest whole animals.

DONT use sand. It can cause all sorts of problems with snakes.

Don't think you said, but presume you're feeding live. I feed F/T and just stick a sheet of newspaper in first to avoid the substrate problem. Don't see why you couldn't do the same with live (line the bottom). It's a hassle, but worth it for the peace of mind!

He also eats in the tank with no problems. As has been said, if you dont smell like food, he (shouldn't!) attempt to eat you at other times!

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Originally Posted by severe_bomber

As has been said, if you dont smell like food, he (shouldn't!) attempt to eat you at other times!

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I handle my snakes a lot after handling rats and smelling like rats, funny thing is they never bite me when I do?
I smell a wives tale...

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I handle my snakes a lot after handling rats and smelling like rats, funny thing is they never bite me when I do?
I smell a wives tale...

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Maybe you have never been bit after handling a rodent but many many people who have been bit have only been bit when the smell of a rodent was either on them or in the air.

This is not a "wives tale" it is fact. If you snakes smells a rat, and it is hungry, and it sees something warm, it will most likely bite. Not saying that it happens 100% of the time but your risk of being bit goes up greatly when the smell of food is near.

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I handle my snakes a lot after handling rats and smelling like rats, funny thing is they never bite me when I do?
I smell a wives tale...

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Sorry, not a wive's tail. Too many people have been bit after handling a rodent. Happened to a girl at the Havre de Grace Reptile show years ago. She had been holding a Dumbo rat earlier in the day, when she wanted to hold a burm. Everything went well, then all of a sudden the burm went after her hand like it was a rodent. Finally got the snake off of her. That's when she remembered the Dumbo rat. She was a worker at a local pet shop and knew better. She had just forgot about the rat.

It does happen. Maybe you're stink is stronger than a rodent's stink, just maybe?:O:D;););)
Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I handle my snakes a lot after handling rats and smelling like rats, funny thing is they never bite me when I do?
I smell a wives tale...

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haha. Have to admit, I haven't put it to the test myself. Just for the record though, I won't be either. :P

I'm saying I can handle rats and play in the rats substrate, then go handle any number of snakes and not get bit.

Thousands of times, no bites. strange how that works...

Your stink must over power the rodent stink! Hmmmm, wonder how that happens? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

Your stink must over power the rodent stink! Hmmmm, wonder how that happens? :rofl::rofl::rofl:

Jim Smith

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lmao
I might just do a short video to display this concept.
After a shower though, lol

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I'm saying I can handle rats and play in the rats substrate, then go handle any number of snakes and not get bit.

Thousands of times, no bites. strange how that works...

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Do you keep your rats in the same room as your snakes?

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

lmao
I might just do a short video to display this concept.
After a shower though, lol

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Don't take a shower on my part. Do whatever works for you.:gj:

Jim Smith