Address the myth

The room gets devided so many times on these issues and its funny how posts here and there about it come up and ppl still cry myth.

Its not the first post I have read, nor the first testimony of it happening. However, lots of ppl want to debate if bps being fed in their enclosure leads to more tagging or snappy (as you will).

So lets address it. Air it out as you will.

Why do ppl get tagged?

Why does it seem more tagging occurs during feeding than any other event?

If someone has handle a rat/mouse and gets tagged "because the scent is on him," doesn't that prove that a snake doesn't know the difference between what is prey and what is owner?

I agree, that not all bps are going to tag during feeding but it sounds like most ppl on this forum are advocates of f/t or prekill, and it also seems like they are the ones more so calling this a myth.

If we are going to give new owners advise, I think these normal and 101 questions should be addressed, because its sounding like its a big mixed bag of tricks of information. Its either a myth or not.:8:

******This is not an arguement but a discussion ppl, so please keep it cordial******

I have been tagged 4 times by snakes.

1st - female snow corn. Was feeding in the enclosure. Used fingers to dangle f/t mouse (mouse was room temp). She felt that my warm fingers were a better meal and tagged my finger. I quickly learned to use feeding tongs.

2nd - handled a baby pastel male who was in shed. Should not have handled him while he was in shed.

3rd - reached hand into a baby carpet python's enclosure. He tagged me. :rolleyes:

4th - feeding pastel male in enclosure(f/t mouse). He struck the mouse but uncoiled. He sometimes will not eat a feeder unless he is coiled around it so I went to pick it back up with the feeding tongs and he tagged my finger.

Now these are all due to keeper error, not the fact I feed in the enclosure. Usually if a snake strikes at me it is because my hand is warmer than their feeder (I don't heat f/t feeders, just thaw to room temp) or I am not using feeding tongs. I normally have no issues with feeding in the enclosure and experience little to no aggression when I reach in to handle them.

I have worked professionally with all kinds of snakes for 15 years, I have fed live, F/t, stunned etc and I have owned snakes since I was 10 years old. I have never once been tagged. I guess I am lucky or saving up for one hell of a bite.
The one thing I am a freak about though is sanitizing my hands after handling any rodents. Also if they are mean I go straight for the hook.

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

Now these are all due to keeper error, not the fact I feed in the enclosure. Usually if a snake strikes at me it is because my hand is warmer than their feeder (I don't heat f/t feeders, just thaw to room temp) or I am not using feeding tongs. I normally have no issues with feeding in the enclosure and experience little to no aggression when I reach in to handle them.

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I have to agree it sounds like most times its keeper error. But it also sounds like, you have some aggressive snakes or that they can be tempermental at times.

I do agree sometimes tagging occurs with younger snakes as well that has nothing related to feeding. However, I have heard that snakes do become used to and routinely seek out getting fed more regularly and aggressively when being strikely fed in the enclosure.

I also know that some keepers leave their snake alone and don't handle as much as they should, only opening the enclosure when its feeding time. I do believe handling your snake more and when feeding in the enclosure will decrease the possibility of being tagged with "mistaken identity" as one forum member put it.

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Originally Posted by ed4281

I have worked professionally with all kinds of snakes for 15 years, I have fed live, F/t, stunned etc and I have owned snakes since I was 10 years old. I have never once been tagged. I guess I am lucky or saving up for one hell of a bite.
The one thing I am a freak about though is sanitizing my hands after handling any rodents. Also if they are mean I go straight for the hook.

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I myself haven't been tagged yet either. Very thankful btw. I do mix it up a bit when it comes to feeding. I rather not feed in the enclosure unless my snake is refusing to eat. Other than that, I'm all for separte feeding area to decrease any chances of getting tagged. Its also nice to get them out of their enclosure.:D

Here's my response to your questions, even if it has been answered.

[QUOTE=Evilme5229;1276140]Why do ppl get tagged?[QUOTE]
Defensive, offensive, or mistaking you for prey if you smell like it or a feeding response when you opened the cage (offensive?).

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Why does it seem more tagging occurs during feeding than any other event?

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Sometimes people will handle the mice/rats and have the scent on their hands and pickup the snake. Not such a great idea.

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If someone has handle a rat/mouse and gets tagged "because the scent is on him," doesn't that prove that a snake doesn't know the difference between what is prey and what is owner?

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They know the difference, but when they smell that one smell they love they'll go into a feeding response. They don't necessarily recognize people per say, but they do know when they are being in contact with them.

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I agree, that not all bps are going to tag during feeding but it sounds like most ppl on this forum are advocates of f/t or prekill, and it also seems like they are the ones more so calling this a myth.

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Keep in mind that F/T rodents do keep some of their scent and the snake will smell it. With pre-killed it is just like as it is live, and has even more of the scent on it than a F/T prey item.

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Originally Posted by Evilme5229

I have to agree it sounds like most times its keeper error. But it also sounds like, you have some aggressive snakes or that they can be tempermental at times.

I do agree sometimes tagging occurs with younger snakes as well that has nothing related to feeding. However, I have heard that snakes do become used to and routinely seek out getting fed more regularly and aggressively when being strikely fed in the enclosure.

I also know that some keepers leave their snake alone and don't handle as much as they should, only opening the enclosure when its feeding time. I do believe handling your snake more and when feeding in the enclosure will decrease the possibility of being tagged with "mistaken identity" as one forum member put it.

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I only have one snake I would consider aggressive. He was a doll before he came home but after I set him up he's been aggressive (tracking my movements, striking, etc).

The corn snake that bit me has never bit out of aggression. It was a simple case of mistaken identity. My finger was warmer than the mouse, smelled like a mouse, so she figured it was a mouse. She quickly realized I was not a mouse and let go, and struck the mouse and ate. The pastel ball python I was holding was in shed so could not see me. He also was not mine (pet store) I ended taking home his brother. The carpet python was also not mine (pet store). The pastel male (brother to the one that bit me) was aggressive from the time we brought him home though with handling he has calmed way down. I can now reach right in and pick him up, even if he's in shed.

I have never noticed a difference with feeding in or out of the enclosure but I handle my snakes at home almost daily so they are used to me going in and out, also the 2 I have right now are the most laid back snakes I have ever seen. When I worked with snakes at the animal hospital, zoo or nature center they always fed in the enclosures even the education animals and I still never noticed a difference in agression it was mostly based on the personality of the animal.

Mistaken Identity, scent on ppl, still sounds like ppl are more apt to be getting bitten in an enclosure when it comes to feeding.

I have never heard of someone feeding a snake outside the enclosure, waiting long enough for the feeding response to be gone, and than trying to handle their snake and still gets tagged. Its always the enclosure one way or the other. Maybe it has to be with going back to territorial instincts? Also, because BPs are on the lesser end of aggressiveness I would think that terrioritial would not be so much the issue vs. scent of a juicy rat. lmao

I have been tagged from snakes in their enclosures and outside their enclosures. I think it all boils down to if you snake feels threatened, not necessarily a territorial thing. When you open a snake's enclosure and reach in to grab them all they experience is sudden movement, changes in light and suddenly a big warm thing hovering over them and reaching towards them. I simply open tubs slowly, and if I have a snake that is occasionally aggressive (like my pastel used to be) I would simply tap him gently on his nose with my snake hook and reach right in. You just have to let them know you are not there to hurt them.

I also may add in that no snake of mine is fed in a separate container, they have stronger feeding responses (that I have noticed) when fed inside their enclosures because they are a lot more comfortable eating in their home instead of in a mysterious, clear tub. Some get the feeding responses, but once they know they are being handled they are fine.

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

I also may add in that no snake of mine is fed in a separate container, they have stronger feeding responses (that I have noticed) when fed inside their enclosures because they are a lot more comfortable eating in their home instead of in a mysterious, clear tub. Some get the feeding responses, but once they know they are being handled they are fine.

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All my snakes are in plastic tubs. I have a racking system. So theres no mysterious clear tub. Honestly I really think it really depends on the snake and how hungry they are. Some are seekers and others are waiters. I have noticed that not all snakes are just ready to strike, some wait a little bit for that mouse/rat to get comfortable before the attack.

It is MUCH easier for you to get tagged when feeding outside the enclosure.

I mean, just think about it.

1.If you feed outside the enclosure you have to prepare the meal, wash your hands, get the snake, put the snake in the container, get the meal, feed the meal, wait, wash your hands, get the snake and put it back in its home enclosure.

2.If you feed in the enclosure you prepare the meal, drop it in or dangle it with tongs and close the cage and leave.

Now it seems to me like someone doing the first bit is WAY more likely to get bit mainly because they have to handle the rodent, then the snake, then the rodent, then the snake. Whereas inside the enclosure, you have no contact with the snake and there should be no reason for you hand to be anywhere near the snake while you are offering food. You should have no contact with your snake during feeding day.

I have never been tagged. I feed inside my enclosures. I don't even use tongs anymore just because I don't care if I get tagged or not. The only reason I would get tagged is if I was dangling the mouse with my hand because my hand is right there in the action zone and the smell of mouse is in the air.

You actually got a lot more prep than needed to feed live. I'm wondering how many ppl that are now strictly f/t or prekill have actually fed live consistantly before. The biggest issue about feeding live is that your snake might get bit. Might being the big word. Unless left unattended I haven't heard any horror stories.

I wonder how many ppl actually enjoy feeding animal to another animal? I certainly don't. I would have a harder time trying to feed a f/t or prekilled rat/mouse to a snake in hopes it will eat it since theres no saving the rat if your snake doesn't eat it. Versus live, where if your snake doesn't eat it, its not wasteful, the rat is still alive to be fed to a different snake or waits another day.

Depends where you feed to. Mine is in my tub lots of room. Therefore, towel, snake to tub, rat, no more rat, 15 mins of roaming, done and back in enclosure - gives them time to know nothing else is to come and good disgestive has gone down.

Remember with F/T you got to get them to the right temperature before you feed them to your snake, theres time in that as well. My setup for feeding my snake is 2 mins. How long does it take to thaw out a rat properly?

Kind of got off topic, but I think that just like anything theres no real right and wrong. I simply will say it depends on the snake, the care that is taken place by the owner, and the environment that the incident takes place in.

I think that calling it a myth is basis where there are plenty of situations that have proven that its not always the case. Prekill, F/T, or live, if a person get tagged while feeding in the enclosure can be many reasons. Some keepers error, where others depend on the snake. Unless one of us addicts turn into a snake, we will find it hard to disprove that its possible that enclosure feedings has its downfalls.

Thanks you all that have participated :-) Everyone has great points!

We get tagged for any number of reasons but the most common ones would probably be.

1. They smell feeders and mistake a nice warm heat signature on a hand as a prey item

2. They don't feel good, sick, wrong temps or frightened or they are startled by a hand.

3. They are young and more prone to being fearful and to strike out.

Another reason would be the individual behavior of each snake, some snakes are just bitters.

I've been bitten 4 times. Once was when I was taking my corn out of his feeding tub (back when I fed in a separate enclosure). I gave him an hour to cool off after the meal, but he apparently thought he was getting seconds.

Second time was also the corn. I had been handling my cat prior to picking up the corn. I got a full strike and constriction. Wasn't a big deal; I just waited for him to realize I wasn't a mouse and loosen up. I forgot my cat left a mouse on the porch, so guess what I must have smelled like. :rolleyes:

Third time was... you guessed it, the corn. This one was not food related. He was just being cage aggressive. Getting him out was always tricky, and I wasn't fast enough this time. He's mostly gotten over his cage aggressiveness ever since I started feeding him in the enclosure, but it was very bad when I fed in a separate enclosure. He used to be ready to strike as soon as I opened the screen.

Fourth time was a ball python who was in a bad mood. He just wanted to be left alone, and it was a defensive bite. I also smelled of rat at the time, but the balls don't seem to be triggered as highly as the corn. I can pick the balls up even if the room has been prescented and I'm in the middle of feeding some snakes. I can be holding them in one hand and holding the food item by the tail in the other, and they'll still hit the food accurately. But once they get 3000g+, I probably won't put this much trust in them at feeding time! Even so, they are not normally cage aggressive at all.

I think it can depend on the animal, but in my experience it has been a myth. The corn has actually calmed down since I started feeding in the enclosure. My corn, ball pythons, and Sumatran short tail python all get fed in their enclosures, and none of them are normally ever cage aggressive.

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Originally Posted by Evilme5229

Kind of got off topic, but I think that just like anything theres no real right and wrong. I simply will say it depends on the snake, the care that is taken place by the owner, and the environment that the incident takes place in.

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x2 :gj:

Pretty often, people get tagged because they simply don't know how to approach a snake. Even snake owners.

Short story: I'm at work, and just spent like 2 minutes carefully removing a young carpet from it's cage (w/out getting bit). A customer walks up and says, "Is that a carpet?" I reply, "sure is." He says, "Thought so, I have two of them myself." As he says this he proceeds to shove his hand right in the snakes face and gets nailed. . . So I'm like, "So you know they're bitey as babies right?" and he's like "yea...." :8:

I was taged ones i i know perfectly Why.. that was a time when i was feeding my girl with multiple live mouse and during transport this 3 small frackers piss all over transport box :) I was in the hurry and that was a time when i was feeding in a separate box so i reach to tank to gram my girl.. of course i dont wash my hands... Combination of mouse smell(strong one) and heat signature cause tag.. I was very very surprised:o but She immediately release my hand leaving just couple of punctures ;) i was shocked but i know that was totally my fault and i know that i never gonna do the same mistake :)

ive never been bitten due to the result of a mistaken feeding response. I did used to feed outside the enclosure, i no longer do and have not for some time.

Every time i've been bitten (4 or 5 times) i KNEW i was going to be bitten and kept messing with the animals anyway. A few baby BPs tagged me during the KPB book shoots (and i had to handle them and keep handling them because i needed them to stay on the table where they were safe and in my range of view). They didn't like me messing with them. I heard hissing and just took the bite anyway.

The other times i've been bitten or stuck at was while handling some nervous animals at snows (corns, carpets, etc).

And the final time was not a mistaken feeding response, it was a fear responce. One big girl I had could not stand the scent of my cats and she would take that out on me, I assume because I was the immediate threat. As soon as this snake was rehomed, she did a 180 degree personality change and is back to being a sweet, docile bp. I also had a carpet python who would do something similar. That animal was also rehomed and the behavior has stopped completely.

With any of my other snakes or geckos (10 total), I can pick up my cats, let them walk on my head, etc. and then get any of those reptiles and I won't get bitten for having cat scent on me. Snakes are all individuals.

I can't believe anyone would say that someone who has been bitten 4 times must have aggressive snakes. I think I got bitten 4 times in one day, at a show (I don't think any of the biters were BPs). Jay Bunny has been a member of this forum for over 3 years, so I would assume she's had snakes at least close to that long. An average of just over 1 bite per year really isn't much at all for someone who has multiple snakes.

The worst problem I've had with an "aggressive" snake was one of my corns. She is the only one I feed in a separate container, because she is kept on aspen and I'd rather avoid the possible ingestion of the aspen. Several months ago, I went through a period of a few months where a lot of other things were really taking up a lot of my time, and my snakes got handled very little beyond the bare minimum required for cage maintenance. So this corn began to associate being taken out of her enclosure with feeding time, and pretty much every time I took her out, she tagged me or at least tried to. Now that I'm back on a more regular schedule, she is being handled more regularly again, and the behavior has pretty much disappeared.

I think whether you feed in or out of the enclosure, if the only time you do anything with your snake is feeding time, there is the chance that they'll associate you with feeding time, and that will make bites more likely. They'll still be feeding response type of bites, which IMHO is different than true aggression anyway. On the other hand, whether you feed in or out of the enclosure, if you regularly go into your snake's enclosure to clean, replace the water, and handle the snake, the snake will not associate you with feeding time, and the chance of "mistaken identity" type bites is greatly reduced. The only difference is that if you feed outside of the enclosure, you are required to handle the snake, increasing the opportunities for it to bite you.

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Why do ppl get tagged?

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• Feeding mistake
  
• Scent of another animal on the person
  
• Stress
  
• Handling an animal while in feeding mode.
  
• Defensive bites from younger individuals.
  
• Aggressive individual (Rare but it happens)
  
• The person heat's signature being higher than other people making them more susceptible to bites. This is my case and I am a bite magnet :rolleyes:.
  
  Snakes will literally launch at me while being held by another person simply because I walk by or sit by them. :O (A few people have witness this)

Lol... well.. I got tagged by a feeding response after having fed outside their enclosure for months. I put my male in his feeding tank and as I was withdrawing my hand, BAM, he got me.

It probably had to do with the fact that I had unknowingly prescented the room by thawing the mouse on my heater and he was really excited so the first heat signature he got was the one he went after. It was a pain to get him off, he constricted my hand like there was no tomorrow and I had to dunk him in water.

(on the plus side I found that prescenting gives me a really aggressive feeding response which helps because my female is a tricky feeder.)

After that I just fed them in their enclosures and left them alone for a few days.

Remember, they're wild animals that lack the basic genetics that give them the kind of social bond we and some other animals have, and instinct to them always comes first.

I have 9 bps haven't gotten tagged once. If I ever get tagged I'm sure it has to do with something I did wrong. lol

I guess the main thing is do what you already doing if you haven't gotten tagged. But my system works. So unless I get tagged I don't see any reason to change. :-) If its not broke don't fix it.

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Originally Posted by Evilme5229

I guess the main thing is do what you already doing if you haven't gotten tagged. But my system works. So unless I get tagged I don't see any reason to change. :-) If its not broke don't fix it.

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I frequently say things like "do what works for you and your snake," but I'm usually talking about what gets the snake to eat, not what keeps the keeper from being bit. While it is nice if the keeper isn't being bit, and obviously I try to avoid it and doing things that makes it likely that a snake will strike at me, it isn't the highest priority.

I am a newcomer. Ive had my male since Christmas. I feed in a different enclosure then where he is kept. When i first got him he didnt eat for 4 weeks then he finally did. Then he went another 3 weeks without feeding so I tried to feed him in his tank and he ate instantly. So I tried in a different enclosure again and ever since ive had a huge feeding response and its been fine ever since. Hes eaten every time. Instead of him eating in a clear container I feed him in a dark one where he feels secure and cant see out of. Its not clear. I heat the feeding bin up with a heat lamp about a half hour before so its warm in there and I put a half log in there so he feels secure. A completely different kind of hide then what is in his cage so he knows the difference. I do things consistently so he knows the difference between feeding time and me just handling daily. I am also a big advocate of leaving him alone for 48+ hours after feeding and even though its been 3 months Ive had no aggression towards me or any of my family members who handle him.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

• The person heat's signature being higher than other people making them more susceptible to bites. This is my case and I am a bite magnet :rolleyes:.
  
  Snakes will literally launch at me while being held by another person simply because I walk by or sit by them. :O (A few people have witness this)

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This is fun cause I'm the same way, My wife hates it cause 45 degrees is comfortable for me in a short sleeve shirt.. My standard body temp is 99 degrees. So if your snake hasn't bitten it just hasn't be held by me yet..

We're fun to be at shows with nothing like walking up to a table and having a snake reach out for you from across the table is it Deb..