Sleep and Kill

Today is feeding day for my bps. Unlike several times before, today was a very rare and interesting event.

My newest bp Sprite has been a little shy to say the least when it comes to eating. After several failed attempts in trying to have her eat not inside her enclosure, I decided I would do what I hate and see if feeding in her enclosure would work. I hate feeding in the enclosure because the pine shavings almost always stick to the prey and your snake is digesting the shavings. Thats all I need.

So I took out the water bowl and the hide box and plopped the rat inside the cage. After 30 mins I was about to just take the rat out of enclosure and throw up my hands. Somehow I decided to wait a little longer. After about 45 mins I noticed that the rat stuck itself in the corner of the tub. I thought that maybe this rat died of shock or something, because it wasn't moving for crap. His eyes were half open half closed and it looked like it was barely breathing. Sprite was exploring her enclosure acting like she was not interested. I noticed adventually she was rubbing up against the rat almost like she was petting it. Shocked, annoyed, and preparing to setup my new fuzzy rodent his home. I watched as my snake kept bumping it. Than I saw her open her mouth in attempt to eat the rat ALIVE without strangling it.

The rat still didn't move. Finally the rat must have woke up and realized that his snake friend was not a friend at all and started to struggle. Sprite quickly wrapped her body around to choke her friend.

I find it amazing that a rat would let a snake put its mouth around its head before it realizes that its not something normal. To think that Sprite wouldn't strangle her food before eating it. I don't know if she thought it was already dead or what, but it sure was a rare sight to see.

Crazy Sprite and crazy dumb rat!
:O:O:O:rofl::rofl::rofl:

Wow, that is crazy! I don't even know how I would react to that situation... I'd probly have to pinch myself several times to make sure I wasn't seeing things!

Sounds like a fantastic time to switch Sprite to frozen thawed prey.

thinking the same thing!^^

Two of my snakes eat FT rats without constricting. I place them in the opposite end of the tank and within a half hour, the rats are gone. I would definitely switch to FT or PK. A live rat can do some damage.

I don't do f/t or prekill. I know that she eats live rats. If it happens again than I would consider it, but I think this was a fluke. Its not typical behavior and my distributor fed her live rats. I just think it was a weird behavoir outta her.

Well you had several failed attempts at feeding her live before, but she gladly started eating what she thought was a dead mouse...so why not just save the trouble and possibly the danger of this happening again by giving her a pre-killed or f/t?

I have quite a few snakes who are very shy feeders and will NOT eat if I dangle the f/t rodent, but only if it is laying in their tub.

I was surprised no one else caught the fact he said he is using pine shavings...isnt that a huge no no and can be toxic to the snake? Maybe I misread it though is the snake in pine shaving or just the housing for the mouse/rat

I had a snake constrict once that me never struck he just had the mouse crawl into his coil and he tightened up then ate the mouse after it was dead.

Pine shavings are pretty debated. Some people say that kiln dried pine is fine but I will personally never use it because it contains the same phenols that make cedar toxic.

I find it funny that I post something interesting and get a lot of conjecture about changing her to feeding her f/t and prekilled rats. lol.

I've only had her for about 2 weeks. Failed attempts have been 2 or 3. Nothing crazy or serious. F/t and prekill are to involved for me not to mention unnatural. All my other snakes eat live. Ppl get worried about a snake getting injured by a rat, but there are so many ways that prekilled and f/t can go wrong too. I could understand if this was the hundreth time my snake did not want to eat, but this is literally the third. My preference is live, if she doesn't take to live, than I have no choice to use but prekill/ft. I'm not to the point yet where I'm going to start switchin her to f/t or prekill.

I wrote the post only to mark the event.

Everyone has their preferences. Dried compressed pine is fine to use and have been using it for years. A lot of ppl I know, that have bps, use pine shavings too. Newspaper has its downfalls too. The ink is one issue because it has a residue that will come off on your hands, well guess what? It will go onto your snake and also its water bowl and get into the water. Its not good as far as creating a protective barrier for heat. Theres issues for both cases. I like the pine. Never had a problem with it and my snakes haven't had any issues either.

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Originally Posted by derrabe

I was surprised no one else caught the fact he said he is using pine shavings...isnt that a huge no no and can be toxic to the snake? Maybe I misread it though is the snake in pine shaving or just the housing for the mouse/rat

I had a snake constrict once that me never struck he just had the mouse crawl into his coil and he tightened up then ate the mouse after it was dead.

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By the way I'm not a he. I'm a she.

Thanks,
Shannon

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Originally Posted by Evilme5229

I find it funny that I post something interesting and get a lot of conjecture about changing her to feeding her f/t and prekilled rats. lol.

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So you post a topic open to conversation about your snake not eating but you don't like what people are recommending. Okay.

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Originally Posted by Evilme5229

Ppl get worried about a snake getting injured by a rat, but there are so many ways that prekilled and f/t can go wrong too.

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Wouldn't you agree that a live rat can do more damage than a dead rat? I agree, things can go wrong with FT/PK. If the snake has to kill the rat however, that simply adds to the problems that may arise.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a "live feeding is wrong" party member. But, I hardly think a dead rat can bite or claw a snake. Chances are slim if you are a responsible owner that it happens when you feed live, but... the chance still exists.

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Originally Posted by Evilme5229

My preference is live

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Why do you prefer live? I would say your preference should be whatever your snake will safely and consistently eat.

Hello,

It happened to me one time; the rat was scared (I think) and wasn't moving... So my female slowly came closer and tried to swallow it... Eventually, the rat realized that, and tried to flee, but the BP was faster, and finally constricted it.

One other time, she even swallowed a live rat, knocked out, but it was still breathing, it even moved, like a chocking reflex. That was a bad one… Nasty girl. No need to mention that I have a pretty intense feeding response with her.

I had something similar happen once. The snake constricted the rat and after he got the head in his mouth, I saw the rats feet start moving again and I realized it was still alive. I just grabbed the rat by the tail with the tongs and gently pulled on it a few times. The snake constricted it again and finally killed it.

But in your case, that must have been one tired rat... :rofl:

A few comments

Roaming the cage was probably searching out the prey source she could smell.

Bumping is really very common. My snakes will sometimes come right up on a rat and almost seem to rub it or bump it. It's like they are making sure this is exactly what they think it is. It isn't too unusual for the rat to cower in a corner either. They seem to go into a near sleep state. I think the rat is trying to make itself as small and quiet as possible to avoid attack. Others will run like mad.

I use newsprint and / or paper towels to avoid the substrate into the mouth thing. In fact this is what got me to change from eco earth to paper towels. I had a snake strike and get a mouth full of substrate and then it didn't want to eat.

Since eating can be a problem for Ball Pythons I decided it wasn't going to be an issue because of the substrate and I switched.

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Originally Posted by RockyTop

So you post a topic open to conversation about your snake not eating but you don't like what people are recommending. Okay.

Wouldn't you agree that a live rat can do more damage than a dead rat? I agree, things can go wrong with FT/PK. If the snake has to kill the rat however, that simply adds to the problems that may arise.

Don't get me wrong, I am not a "live feeding is wrong" party member. But, I hardly think a dead rat can bite or claw a snake. Chances are slim if you are a responsible owner that it happens when you feed live, but... the chance still exists.


Why do you prefer live? I would say your preference should be whatever your snake will safely and consistently eat.

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Correction, where did I ask for advise about feeding my snake? I simply posted the situation. There was a similar post by another member about a snake squishing the rat and killed it. Mine was along the same lines. I know the several options available to me. I'm not trying to be rude, but seriously I rather have not posted the event.

I have been feeding my snakes live meals forever. I supervise them very well. I will agree that a live rat will do more damage than a dead one; however, leaving a dead rat overnight is disgusting. Its dead and rotting and under the right conditions can get your snake sick. I rather keep a rat alive for a little bit, than hope that after I defrost a dead one that he eats it. Its a waste if your snake doesn't eat it. I have more than one snake, the rat will not go to waste.

If people are that scared about feeding rats to their snake than don't have them. Not to be harsh, but lets get real, they live in the wild and have no issues. If your happy feeding your snake f/t or prekill. Thats all fine and dandy, but thats just not my way of doing things.

Oh now its the big debate on how to feed a bp instead of ppl just leaving the drama at home and taking the story what it was and what I said it was. Just a thing that happened and thought I would share. I didn't ask for any advise, just posted the event. If you think I did, where did I write a question mark expecting an answer. PPl are going overboard and letting this get out of hand.

Oh and I forgot to thank the ppl that kept the situation for what it was. It is a relief that some ppl didn't get confused as to what I was posting and why I was posting it.

Not everyone that is on this forumn is looking for advise. Some people are just here to help and share experiences. Hence, myself.

Thanks again all. :-)

By posting this "situation" you open the conversation to discuss the reasons why your snake isn't eating and what you could do to make it eat consistently. By posting this information, whether you ask a question or not, you are asking for peoples opinion on the situation. That just comes with the territory of forum posting.

I appreciate it was a strange situation and actually sounded a bit scary in my opinion and so I gave you my opinion on what you could do to avoid this situation in the future as I am sure you wouldn't want a repeat.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

By posting this "situation" you open the conversation to discuss the reasons why your snake isn't eating and what you could do to make it eat consistently. By posting this information, whether you ask a question or not, you are asking for peoples opinion on the situation. That just comes with the territory of forum posting.

I appreciate it was a strange situation and actually sounded a bit scary in my opinion and so I gave you my opinion on what you could do to avoid this situation in the future as I am sure you wouldn't want a repeat.

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I am one that appreciates everyone's opinion when it is called for it. Unless someone asks, than it shouldn't be given. It saves alot of time, fustration, and issues between forumn members.

Just because someone posts something, doesn't mean everything is warranted an opinion on. Although I can appreciate some of the concern, any experienced person with a bp will know that sometimes unexplained things happen with bp behavior that doesn't mean that its going to be the norm.

Since shes only refused food 3 times and it was not in her enclosure, the first time that she does feed and it appears to be a weird incident doesn't mean that its going to be a repeat. If it happens again, than ya cause for concern. This situation doesn't predict the norm.

If you like the drama, than fine, but you will find that in life not everything should have your opinion stamped on it. Heres a test lets end the conversation and end anew. Its not worth agruing who is right and wrong.

I enjoyed the ppl with similar stories and thank you.

Had the opposite on a few occasions, coiling with out striking..still eaten but a bit back to front from usual ;)

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Originally Posted by Bruceweb

Had the opposite on a few occasions, coiling with out striking..still eaten but a bit back to front from usual ;)

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Ya after the rat squirmed Sprite wrapped herself around the rat and it was over. No issues. Front to back like norm.

Shes happy as a clam today.