What temp. for maternal incubation?

Hello. Just wondering what temperature the enclosure should be for my ball python to maternally incubate her eggs. I know that she will fluctuate the temp. with her coils so just making sure I don't set it up to high or anything.

Also, do you think that cypress mulch would be a good substrate? I found some at Home Depo but it's damp. Should I use it?

Thanks.


P.s. I already know all the arguments going around on maternal incubation. Please do not try to persuade me to do things differently because I won't.

You should really incubate those eggs on your own...Just kidding! I would give her a hot spot of 88. She'll most likely lay her eggs right on the heat. To keep the humidity up you could always use damp sphagnum moss. I personally would not use any mulch from Home Depot. They do not treat any of thier products for bugs and it could potentially be a problem. If you are going to use Cypress, get it from a pet supply place(just my opinion). Keep us posted BTW.

If she doesn't lay them on them on the hot spot should I move her on it?
Where could I get treated sphagnum moss?

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Originally Posted by Jenasourousrex

If she doesn't lay them on them on the hot spot should I move her on it?
Where could I get treated sphagnum moss?

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If she lays them off the heat, then leave them where they are. Ball pythons are different from other pythons in the way that she will actually leave the eggs to bask then come back to the eggs with heat(correct me if I'm wrong). You can get sphagnum moss at most pet supply stores. I know Petco even carries it.

Just a note: The hot spot should be a MAXIMUM of 88 degrees, you might be better off in the mid to low 80's.

Do you think Pet Smart carries it?

Thanks for all your help BTW twistedtails. I never would have thought about the mulch being treated or not.

I'm sure Petsmart has it.

I just wanted to say please keep us posted! Although I couldn't do it myself (I'd much prefer the artificial method - LOL) I find this so interesting. What was the breeding?

Well, it was completely unintentional on my part. I though they were both males (I know, I know). Then one thing led to another and now the "male" that I had for 6 years turns out to be gravid. lol. She's normal and he's pastel.
I will definitely keep you posted.

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Originally Posted by Jenasourousrex

P.s. I already know all the arguments going around on maternal incubation. Please do not try to persuade me to do things differently because I won't.

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Not going to try to persuade you to do artificial incubation, just curious why your mind is made up on maternal incubation in this case?

Well, I would definitely like to do the more natural thing and let her do it. She knows better than me what to do. Also, I won't be breeding her next season and I don't have to worry about trying to fatten her up again before I try to load her with more eggs. She's very healthy and of good weight so I'm not worried about 2 months of her not eating. (Well, a little worried but I do not believe I am endangering her health in any way).

It is what they do in the wild, so it can't be that hard on them, or the species would be extinct. Who knows, maybe years from now, when people post the question about maternal or artificial incubation, everyone will be posting about how you really need to do maternal incubation, because the prolonged fast is really important for the female for some reason we don't know about yet.

I don't know enough about it to give you any advice, but I do know I've seen at least a few threads on here of people that have done it, some with more success than others. I'd do a search and read up on it and probably contact those members to see what else they might be able to share with you.

Good luck, and please keep us updated! I think maternal incubation is fascinating!

Also, the container I will be putting her in to incubate is a Rubbermaid container. It's 41 qts. 29x16x8. and I was wondering if I should put holes into it? Or just open it once everyday to let air it? I think it's air proof but I have no idea. Also, if I should poke hole in it, how many and where? On the top or on the sides?

Thanks

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

I personally would not use any mulch from Home Depot. They do not treat any of thier products for bugs and it could potentially be a problem.

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Do you really want pesticides on your snake's bedding? I sure don't. The mulch from Home Depot is fine, just be sure it doesn't have any Cedar in it. You may have to call the manufacturer to find out whether it does or doesn't.

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Originally Posted by m00kfu

Do you really want pesticides on your snake's bedding? I sure don't. The mulch from Home Depot is fine, just be sure it doesn't have any Cedar in it. You may have to call the manufacturer to find out whether it does or doesn't.

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You can heat treat something for bugs. I definately would not put my animals on something with pesticides on it.

If I was to heat treat cypress mulch how would I do that? Just cook it in the oven? Would that work? What temp. and for how long? Thank you

So, does anyone know how I should heat treat the cypress mulch?

I don't know if it'll have the same effect.. But when I treat pinecones (for my parrot to chew on) I put them in the oven at 250 Degrees for 2 hours.

Thanks. Does it make it become brittle or anything like that? Do you think it would effect it's ability to hold humidity?

Heat treating anything will be done at 2-250F in oven for 20-30 mins.

Keep a eye on it encase anything catches from getting dried out.


as for keeping the humidity up in the tub, get a 6qt tub and fill it with coconut fiber/husk wet and put it in the tub with her. This alone will keep humidity 85%+

Well, the container I'm going to put her in to incubate the eggs is a 41qt. Rubbermaid container and is 29x18x6. So, just put the 6qt. in there for a lay box? Also, do you think I should put any holes in the 41qt? If so how many and where?

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Originally Posted by Jenasourousrex

Well, the container I'm going to put her in to incubate the eggs is a 41qt. Rubbermaid container and is 29x18x6. So, just put the 6qt. in there for a lay box? Also, do you think I should put any holes in the 41qt? If so how many and where?

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Yes you need holes in the 41qt to allow ventilation. But the 6 qt will not be a lay box. You put that in after eggs are laid and use is strictly for humidity. Coconut husk/fiber holds water very well

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Originally Posted by Jenasourousrex

Well, the container I'm going to put her in to incubate the eggs is a 41qt. Rubbermaid container and is 29x18x6. So, just put the 6qt. in there for a lay box? Also, do you think I should put any holes in the 41qt? If so how many and where?

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6qt sounds awfully small for a ball python lay box. That's around the size I'd use for a corn snake. When I let my female ball maternally incubate last year, she was kept in a 40g breeder tank and I gave her a 35qt Sterilite tub to use as a nest box. After she ovulated, she spent the majority of her time under the moss in that tub. For your situation, if you plan to house her in the 41qt tub I don't think you'll need a lay box at all. The only reason I gave mine a lay box was to help keep humidity up so mom wasn't having to remain coiled tight around the eggs all the time. For you, the humidity should stay at safe levels throughout as long as you're using a substrate that holds humidity well.

I use cypress mulch from Lowe's but have never heat treated the bedding I buy. Instead, I spray the tub or tank with Provent-a-Mite or other mite spray as a preventative and let that dry before putting my substrate down. I've been doing this for the past few years and haven't had any creepy crawlies in there.

As for holes in the tub. I do put holes in my tubs. I use a wood burning wand ($8 at Walmart) to burn a few holes in the front and along the sides just so I know there's some air exchange taking place. I know of others who don't put any holes in the tubs as well, so as long as the tub isn't airtight it's really up to you.

I think maternal incubation is cool. It allows you to not buy a incubator or extra T stat. Let nature do it's thing. You only need to control the temp and humidity

The bad thing is the mom will probably need to skip the next breeding season due to all the weight she will lose.
I would like to hear who has done maternal incubation here.

this is a really cool thread.... also some hydroponic mediums are sterile,pest and dicease free... like coco coir... just my 2 cents... do you have a few pics??

ok I don't know that much about the breeding of these guys as I have the Stupid Question thread but I'll take something from the master himself "They've been doing it on their own for thousands of years" thank goodness for Bob Clark

I think maternal incubation is good for small time people. If you only have a clutch or 2 each year it is good. Saves you money on the whole incubator set up for sure.

I also think its good if you are keeping majority of the clutch for future breeding stock. The mom probably wont go next season and that's good if your keeping female's from the clutch for future breeding. It's gonna take 18 to 24 months if you keep female's anyway. Now you got me googling maternal incubation lol...

I can't answer your questions, but wanted to say good luck - and keep us updated! I seriously considered maternal incubation, but as this is my first year breeding I've decided to go artificial. Next year I may do half & half, or at least allow one mother to incubate... it just seems so natural, doesn't it? :)

do your research, when a snake incubates her eggs in the wild she can laid them where she wants. she picks the area that has the conditions that will give her the temps and humidity needed for her eggs. By having her in a tub, she has very limited areas to laid. So it's still your responsiblity to provide her with the right conditions. Most breeders incubate the eggs to raise the hatch rate, the snake going back on feed sooner is a bonus. My hatch rate is almost 100% and I incubate the eggs. I'm not saying for you not too do this, but to do your research and stay on top of it. It doesn't take much for things to go wrong. let us know how everything from the laying to hatching is going. Good luck Don

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Originally Posted by bman123

I think maternal incubation is cool. It allows you to not buy a incubator or extra T stat. Let nature do it's thing. You only need to control the temp and humidity

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Taking financial shortcuts is the WRONG reason to choose maternal incubation, IMHO.

If someone can't divy up the money for an incubator and thermostat, they probably shouldn't be breeding, as they also wouldn't be able to afford the vet bill if their female were to have any issues, like egg binding and need vet care to save her life.

Yes, you need to control temp and humidity, but it's much harder to do with maternal incubation.

I've chosen artificial incubation, because I know that the temps and humidity remain constant, and I can't imagine having my females be off feed for 2 months after they lay. If you've ever seen a female after laying, you'd know what I mean. I'd rather my females start eating and getting good body mass as soon as possible, for their health and well being.

I'm not saying to not get a incubator. It sounds like their mind is made on maternal incubation. I will use a incubator when I breed, you have a better hatch rate that way and your female will eat sooner.

Some people llike to do things naturally, I'm just saying they are saving money doing it that way thats all.

Hope this Helps
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