What is this ??

picked up this male today , i just had to have him he looks so stunning and different im wondering what he is het for , sorry about the bad photos but in photo one hes next to a normal female ,

if i had to guess i said reduce pattern and het caramel what are you're thoughts on him , thanks


http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/x...s/IMG_0481.jpg

http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/x...s/IMG_0489.jpg

http://i743.photobucket.com/albums/x...s/IMG_0486.jpg

I hate it when they move when you take the pics. He looks like he doesn't have a head.

Is he a vanilla?

No way that I know of to tell what he could possibly be het for. What I can see is that it is a very nice crisp pattern, and very cool looking coloring. Maybe a belly shot will help to tell if it is something more than a normal. Worst case is it's a very nice normal.

You picked him up today, and already put him in with a female? Please quarantine your new animals!

If he is het for something recessive, you won't be able to tell. That is part of the definition of recessive.

He is an attractive snake, though. Very light color and almost no alien eyes. I hope he proves out to be something for you.

i got him from a respectable place i only got 5 snakes . and they all came from the same place ...

i was told he might be double het for ghost ....

so in order to find out probably nothing will pop out this year but i will have to breed the offspring back to him to find out correct ?

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Originally Posted by Jonnyb

i got him from a respectable place i only got 5 snakes . and they all came from the same place ...

i was told he might be double het for ghost ....

so in order to find out probably nothing will pop out this year but i will have to breed the offspring back to him to find out correct ?

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Double het for ghost would be a ghost. What did the respectable place you got him from say he was?

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Originally Posted by Jonnyb

i got him from a respectable place i only got 5 snakes . and they all came from the same place ...

i was told he might be double het for ghost ....

so in order to find out probably nothing will pop out this year but i will have to breed the offspring back to him to find out correct ?

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I am going to tell you something i was told in beggining of getting into snakes.I dont care if you got it from God himself QUARANTINE it! If this respectable breeder did not give you genetic papers showing what its het for then its probably a normal ball python ;).Sorry but you can not look at a snake and tell if its really het for anything.It is a nice looking snake though :gj:

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Originally Posted by Jonnyb

i got him from a respectable place i only got 5 snakes . and they all came from the same place ...

i was told he might be double het for ghost ....

so in order to find out probably nothing will pop out this year but i will have to breed the offspring back to him to find out correct ?

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Yes that is correct, but you will still only have a percentage of the hatchlings that will be het, so it's a hit or miss guess.

And I think he meant that it might be a double het, which is what het for ghost is. (Het for Albino and Axanthic).

You can never visually tell what an animals heterozygous genes are just by looking at it, though sometimes hets show unique traits, but they are not consistent enough to be counted on.

Even if you got all the animals from the same place, quarantine is essential. Especially if you got them at separate times, one thing can pop up at a breeder later down the road.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

And I think he meant that it might be a double het, which is what het for ghost is. (Het for Albino and Axanthic).

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Actually, that would be double het for snow.

It is possible the breeder was referring to double het for true ghost, which is het for axanthic and het for hypo.

He's pretty! I love his color!

Maybe try to get a head shot and a belly shot.

So my question, which is going to be the biggest question is how much did you pay for him?

If he is "double het for ghost" (whatever that means) then he should of had a fairly hefty price tag.... If you paid normal prices you get normal snakes. :gj:

A het is a het, meaning you cannot tell by looking at it. If you were not given instruction as to its genetic background then there is none. If you think there may be something different about the animal don't put a label on it. Breed it to find out, THEN label it.

And who cares who or where the animals came from. You have 5 snakes now, but if you get the new snake and it has any issues that number could drastically drop... back to ZERO. Quarantine is the safest way to introduce new members to a collection. RI and mites are the first things, but definitely not the worst things that are contracted from non-quarantined animals. BE SMART!

I'm in Toronto PM me the "respectable place" you got them from, maybe I can help you out

Hypo does seem to be one of those "recessive" mutations with co-dom tendency. I have a female het hypo with that bright clean look. Thing is if you really wanted to breed a het hypo male you could buy one pretty cheap now and know what it is 100%. But if you have the extra females and time by all means breed him and see what you get. My original het hypo male had that look and half his babies did including the now proven het hypo daughter.

A belly shot and a good head shot might also help to figure out if he is a known co-dominant like fire or vanilla.

if you got him from a respectable breeder, what did you pay? I imagine a double het ghost would be in the 750ish range, 50% possible dbl het... atleast 150ish i would assume and a normal is about 20ish. so that will give you your answer right there, if they are a respectable breeder like you said.

even if he doesn't prove to be anything he is still a really nice looking snake

Looks like a fire to me.

I know what it is.

It's HET for SUPER NORMAL:gj:

i agree.. fire or vanilla... belly + head shots would probably make it easier to identify

until u know for sure its a mighty fine dinkable normal :gj:

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Picked up this male today , i just had to have him he looks so stunning and different im wondering what he is het for , sorry about the bad photos but in photo one hes next to a normal female ,

if i had to guess i said reduce pattern and het caramel what are you're thoughts on him , thanks

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Well, he IS a nice reduced pattern animal. Not crazy reduced where all the pattern blends together but he is missing most of his alien eyes. Nice light coloration too.
But unless you know for sure (meant to be read as "unless the breeder sold you a definite het or double het, etc.") then ANY guess is just that....A GUESS. If you think you have something, the only way to tell for sure is to breed it out. Until then, he is a cool reduced pattern normal.
I like him and think he is cool enough to merit a back burner project. Get it done :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

Hypo does seem to be one of those "recessive" mutations with co-dom tendency. I have a female het hypo with that bright clean look. My original het hypo male had that look and half his babies did including the now proven het hypo daughter.

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After years of working with hypos, I starting thinking the same thing 3 or 4 years ago.
I think many of my hets (but not every single one) have a "look" to them and can easily be distinguished from a normal. The "look" falls on the subtle side of things but if you know what you are looking for then it can jump out at you.
Maybe hypos should be reclassified as incomplete dominant....but that is a whole different thread.....and an uphill battle to convince people of it;)

I don't know what to call inconsistently co-dominant mutations like hypo and piebald in ball pythons and green and granite in Burmese pythons. "Recessive with sporadic co-dominant tendencies" just doesn't have a ring to it. It's sort of like they didn't read the text book where they are supposed to pick a mutation type and stay with it! If they always or never showed in hets it would sure avoid a lot of argument among us keepers.

sorry havnt been around the computer much , im going to take some pictures tomorrow i'll get a belly shot and a head shot but he doesnt like to sit still ,

basicly what happend was there was 5 to choose from and he didnt need these one's no more and i picked out this ons cause of the pattern and color . since i bought all my snakes from him i paid 100$ cash for a proven guy . they where in one bin and he said there all het for something but wouldnt tell me because then he would hae to raise the prices on some . some where het ghosts and double hets and etc

i'll post more pictures up in a day or two with better lighting so you can see his colours better

he looks just like the snake in this photo on the link but im going to take new ones

http://www.vpi.com/brag/super_vanilla_ball_python

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Originally Posted by Jonnyb

sorry havnt been around the computer much , im going to take some pictures tomorrow i'll get a belly shot and a head shot but he doesnt like to sit still ,

basicly what happend was there was 5 to choose from and he didnt need these one's no more and i picked out this ons cause of the pattern and color . since i bought all my snakes from him i paid 100$ cash for a proven guy . they where in one bin and he said there all het for something but wouldnt tell me because then he would hae to raise the prices on some . some where het ghosts and double hets and etc

i'll post more pictures up in a day or two with better lighting so you can see his colours better

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who did you get them from, something seems fishy. . .if he is a repectable breeder he would have no problem letting you know what they were het for.

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Originally Posted by Jonnyb

sorry havnt been around the computer much , im going to take some pictures tomorrow i'll get a belly shot and a head shot but he doesnt like to sit still ,

basicly what happend was there was 5 to choose from and he didnt need these one's no more and i picked out this ons cause of the pattern and color . since i bought all my snakes from him i paid 100$ cash for a proven guy . they where in one bin and he said there all het for something but wouldnt tell me because then he would hae to raise the prices on some . some where het ghosts and double hets and etc

i'll post more pictures up in a day or two with better lighting so you can see his colours better

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Ok he had a grab bag of ball pythons in a bin :O.I would definitly Quarintine anything from that person ;)

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Originally Posted by Jonnyb

he looks just like the snake in this photo on the link but im going to take new ones

http://www.vpi.com/brag/super_vanilla_ball_python

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Sorry you are not going to get a super vanilla for $100 bucks :colbert:.I am thinking you got a nice reduced patterned snake that "could" be het for something but thats all.

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Originally Posted by Jonnyb

basicly what happend was there was 5 to choose from and he didnt need these one's no more and i picked out this ons cause of the pattern and color . since i bought all my snakes from him i paid 100$ cash for a proven guy . they where in one bin and he said there all het for something but wouldnt tell me because then he would hae to raise the prices on some . some where het ghosts and double hets and etc

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And the seller would be upset at having to raise the prices on some of them...why???? Seems to me like that would be a good thing for the seller.

Sounds fishy to me.

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Originally Posted by kc261

Sounds fishy to me.

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x Eleventy billion.

Looks like a nice pale reduced-pattern. If it's anything, I would call it similar to a vanilla or desert, but certainly not super-desert--it doesn't look a thing like one. It may just be a nice pale normal. I have a female normal about that color.

Its coloring isn't indicative of any recessive gene--as has been pointed out, while some het animals may have 'markers', the markers are subtle, not obvious like this, and not all het animals have markers. If the het animals showed some obvious and consistant trait, they would be considered co-dominant genes, not recessive genes.