Caramel upscale line compatible with ??

Since i am in the learning process regarding genetics i have a few questions.
I am going to Hamm next month to pick up a few balls, one of them is a Albino caramel and the breeder have told me that the line (upscale) is compatible with TSK.
Is the upscale line only compatible with TSK ?, should i find anther caramel line ?.
I have read Which caramel lines are compatible? but since the last post in that thread is approx 13 months old (one breeding season) i hope it's okay that I'll start a new one in the hope that new knowledge have emerged.

Frank, ALL Caramel lines have proven to be compatible. Best of luck with your future projects!!! :D

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Originally Posted by Bill Buchman

Frank, ALL Caramel lines have proven to be compatible. Best of luck with your future projects!!! :D

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As this may be true, upscale appears to have less kinking and deformities than other lines, so I would be cautious when trying to mix with other lines.

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

As this may be true, upscale appears to have less kinking and deformities than other lines, so I would be cautious when trying to mix with other lines.

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I have heard that about Upscale as well. I believe out-crossing any of the lines is ONLY a good thing.;)

I am working with Nerd, SK, and Upscale lines. If I had to line breed any of the three -- it would be Upscale without hesitation.

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Originally Posted by Bill Buchman

I have heard that about Upscale as well. I believe out-crossing any of the lines is ONLY a good thing.;)

I am working with Nerd, SK, and Upscale lines. If I had to line breed any of the three -- it would be Upscale without hesitation.

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Out-crossing is good.... but mixing with the other lines not necessarily good for upscale.

I hope to have some caramel in my collection some day. Good luck to both of you. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

As this may be true, upscale appears to have less kinking and deformities than other lines, so I would be cautious when trying to mix with other lines.

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So the conclusion as i read is..

The upscale line is compatible with other lines besides TSK, but crossing should be avoided ?.

The upscale line is actually the (more or less) best line of caramels regarding the kinking ?.

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Originally Posted by Bill Buchman

I have heard that about Upscale as well. I believe out-crossing any of the lines is ONLY a good thing.;)

I am working with Nerd, SK, and Upscale lines. If I had to line breed any of the three -- it would be Upscale without hesitation.

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Your saying that out-crossing is a good thing (even with my knowledge) i do agree, but only if the lines your working with are compatible correct ??, which they all are ??.

In the thread im referring to in my first post you have wrote about some crossing with the lines you mention in this thread..any updates ??.

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Originally Posted by burmese

So the conclusion as i read is..

The upscale line is compatible with other lines besides TSK, but crossing should be avoided ?.

The upscale line is actually the (more or less) best line of caramels regarding the kinking ?.





Your saying that out-crossing is a good thing (even with my knowledge) i do agree, but only if the lines your working with are compatible correct ??, which they all are ??.

In the thread im referring to in my first post you have wrote about some crossing with the lines you mention in this thread..any updates ??.

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ALL LINES ARE COMPATIBLE!!! The more you delve into Caramel info, you will soon discover there is a WIDE RANGE of opinion on which lines are better to work with, which lines are prettier, which you can line breed or not, etc..

Truth be told, nobody has any HARD statistics on Caramels. People are working with different lines, line-breeding son back to mother (NOT SMART :colbert:), mixing with other morphs, incubating differently, out-crossing, different feeders, and any number of other factors.

I believe ALL Caramel lines will kink. To what degree/percentage is different depending on with whom you talk. Sample size is important. 1 or 2 clutches of kinked, or perfect, is hardly a valid sample. :)

However, if the prospect of getting EVEN ONE kinked baby offends a breeder -- I would suggest working with a different morph.

Thanks for all the information i feel much wiser now, last but not less what is your point of view on these examples:
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k2.../picture_2.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k2.../picture_3.jpg
http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k2.../picture_1.jpg

Just keep an eye on the tip of the tail. that is the most overlooked "kink" and often times will be clipped off.

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

Just keep an eye on the tip of the tail. that is the most overlooked "kink" and often times will be clipped off.

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Thanks m8...but what is your opinion on them concerning their overall look (colors, fading and so on)

Once again thanks for all the input you have been given so far

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Originally Posted by burmese

Thanks m8...but what is your opinion on them concerning their overall look (colors, fading and so on)

Once again thanks for all the input you have been given so far

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Since i can't edit this last post now, i have to add a line or two to the above.

Do they look like true caramels to any of you ???. I keep my own opinion to myself until i have heard some other's point of view.

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Originally Posted by burmese

Since i can't edit this last post now, i have to add a line or two to the above.

Do they look like true caramels to any of you ???. I keep my own opinion to myself until i have heard some other's point of view.

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He looks good to me...(I know I'm gonna get reemed for this) Almost looks Ultramel-ish.

I think its a great example of a Caramel! He/she is very light with nice blushing and, personally, I like the more reduced patterned Caramels.

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Originally Posted by twistedtails

He looks good to me...(I know I'm gonna get reemed for this) Almost looks Ultramel-ish.

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Originally Posted by jsmorphs2

I think its a great example of a Caramel! He/she is very light with nice blushing and, personally, I like the more reduced patterned Caramels.

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Sounds great i also think it look great, but to be honest (fell free to laugh) i couldn't see if it were an caramel or orange-ghost.
and yes i have read hunter's guide in the genetic section...anyway thanks for the input guys :gj:

What I've read since my old post on the linked thread:

There are two different proven incompatible morphs (the combo has been made though) with a somewhat similar look:

1. Caramel
2. Ultramel

To complicate matters Ultramel might have been the original Caramel and along the way has been called Crider Caramel, African Caramel, Ultra Caramel and maybe just Ultra. But glad to see "Caramel" left off mostly now to avoid confusion as it doesn't appear to be related to what we now call Caramel at all.

Any Caramel should be compatible with any other Caramel. No one seems to have been able to outbreed kinking or produce a line that never kinks. However, several breeders report extremely good luck avoiding kinks within their collection compared to other breeders reporting as high as 50% kinked caramel babies. The common link I've found so far with those breeders is feeding rodents feed Mazuri 6F but the sample size is very small so could just be co-incidence, especially given that this is a common rodent food brand, and something else might be behind these breeder’s success. Still makes me wonder if the caramel mutation requires or can't tolerate some nutrient that doesn't seem to matter for normal ball pythons and which just happens to be right for caramels in the Mazuri.