Why 3 months of quarantine?

I dont get why you have to do 3 months of quarantine from balls to balls. I mean are there any diseases that pop up in 2 1/2 months? I just dont get why you have to do it. I dont think your going to go really healthy for 2 months and then BAM! theres mites or RI or IBD. RI can happen in the established collection too. Im probably going to get bashed but I just want to know.

I QT of 60 days.. not 90..but it's simply to make good and sure that there aren't any little nasties going to pop up..

When you have a big collection like some people do, quarantine is essential. If a snake happens to come in with some sort of fatal disease, you definitely don't want the rest of your snakes getting it. Its really just a precaution. You never know, something could pop up. I know IBD has a pretty long time period before it kills a ball python around 1-2 months?

Yeah i do it only for being far more safe than sorry and the bigger the collection, the bigger the risk. When i start to have 40 or 50 snakes, you bet i'm going to quarantine for 2 months. Right now its around 3-4 weeks, but i only have 5 snakes. I really feel quarantine is essential and its a really good habit to get in to.

The way I see it, if I'm going to go through the trouble to set up a quarantine rack/cage, then I'm going to keep them in there as long as I can.

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Originally Posted by steveboos

Yeah i do it only for being far more safe than sorry and the bigger the collection, the bigger the risk. When i start to have 40 or 50 snakes, you bet i'm going to quarantine for 2 months. Right now its around 3-4 weeks, but i only have 5 snakes. I really feel quarantine is essential and its a really good habit to get in to.

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Why do you only do about a month?
I only have 2 snakes (for know). They have been quarantined for a month and nothing bad from any of the two. Would it be ok to put them in the same rack?

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Originally Posted by jjsnakedude

Why do you only do about a month?
I only have 2 snakes (for know). They have been quarantined for a month and nothing bad from any of the two. Would it be ok to put them in the same rack?

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Well i'm my situation 80% of my animals are from the same person, so i quarantine them depending on who i get them from. The one i just got is very healthy and from a very good breeder, so he is ok in my books. I never do less than 3 weeks though, just because sometimes it does take longer, especially if its a rescue or something, then its about 2 months.

with the money that some of these ppl have invested with snakes....oye. One wrong move and you could wipe out a 20K snake. That is almost the price of my car. :O

I only have little more than 2K invested in so far...that includes the snakes and all the stuff for them. However if I was to bring something in and it killed my collection. OYE...I would be devastated...not to mention....my child would probably divorce me...lol.

It is better to be safe than sorry. The scariest thing to me with new snakes are....were they around boa's. They say that IBD can lay dormat in boas for years....or even the boa can be a carrier.

And imagine the $$ it would cost if your new snake had a parasite....and all of them got it.

Quarantining is just a precaution in case the new snake has any diseases or parasites. Like stated before, once you get a larger collection you need to be getting in the habbit of quarantining because it is easily for a disease to pass from snake to snake. People have had their whole collections wiped out because they didn't quarantine. A disease like IBD is untreatable and fatal so you definitely wouldn't want that spreading in your collection, so whenever I get a python or boa I always keep it away from my established collection for a certain amount of months until I feel it's safe enough to introduce it to my established collection.

I always watch and check the new snakes for the entire quarantining process so I can spot certain things like RI, IBD, mites, ticks, odd behavior, etc. just in case. When my Kingsnake got RI I immediately moved it out of my room into a different room to be quarantined. He is still in my quarantine room, never really thought of moving him. I have my two newest snakes (Blood pythons) I got on Saturday in the quarantine room right now, and I'm checking their water dishes daily for any drowned mites and I'm trying to take them out of their enclosure to see if their skin twitches or if I see mites crawling around on them.

I normally quarantine for two months, rarely ever one month. I just moved my Beardie into my room with my established collection to get her out of the quarantine room. She's been in there since November 14, and I feel it's safe to let her in with my established collection.

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

with the money that some of these ppl have invested with snakes....oye. One wrong move and you could wipe out a 20K snake. That is almost the price of my car. :O

I only have little more than 2K invested in so far...that includes the snakes and all the stuff for them. However if I was to bring something in and it killed my collection. OYE...I would be devastated...not to mention....my child would probably divorce me...lol.

It is better to be safe than sorry. The scariest thing to me with new snakes are....were they around boa's. They say that IBD can lay dormat in boas for years....or even the boa can be a carrier.

And imagine the $$ it would cost if your new snake had a parasite....and all of them got it.

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But you could have waited 3 months and mabey there was still a parasite in it and then all your other snakes got it.

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Originally Posted by jjsnakedude

But you could have waited 3 months and mabey there was still a parasite in it and then all your other snakes got it.

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Normally you will find out it has parasites during quarantine. When they have parasites, you will notice their feces is more runny and doesn't look normal and will have a fowl smell. You will sometimes see parasites swimming in water dishes as well, but I'm not sure what types of parasites are large enough to physically see.

If worry about mites on a new snake, why not pam the new enclosure, 3 months from what I read about IBD is not nearly enough, plus you better quarantine your snakes in another building not just another room. It's rumor on the net about one of the morph gods who had a run with IBD. He was moving the BIG money snakes into his new building before the new building was complete. one of his employees stated that he was taking snakes to the dumpster by the boxs loads. The worst part of it, he was still selling as this was happening. He still won't admit to it. My point, if this can happen to him ( don't ask I won't say who it was, research yourself on the net ) and he has snakes that are over 20 K a piece (many).And you know that he quarantines but it still happened . How safe do you feel about 3 months and in the same building? I guess something is better than nothing, but by how much?

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Originally Posted by don15681

If worry about mites on a new snake, why not pam the new enclosure, 3 months from what I read about IBD is not nearly enough, plus you better quarantine your snakes in another building not just another room. It's rumor on the net about one of the morph gods who had a run with IBD. He was moving the BIG money snakes into his new building before the new building was complete. one of his employees stated that he was taking snakes to the dumpster by the boxs loads. The worst part of it, he was still selling as this was happening. He still won't admit to it. My point, if this can happen to him ( don't ask I won't say who it was, research yourself on the net ) and he has snakes that are over 20 K a piece (many).And you know that he quarantines but it still happened . How safe do you feel about 3 months and in the same building? I guess something is better than nothing, but by how much?

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By you not stating who he is after bringing him up in the first place I consider you just as liable of a person as he.
Researching things like that on the internet are not quite so easy. That's one of the main purposes of this website, to provide information for people looking for it. You saying something like this and saying 'don't ask me' is redundant. Don't say anything at all if you're not going to play all the cards to back yourself up, or you just look like a fool.

Quarantine is mostly just to watch for RI's and mites for me, because of who the breeders are that I buy from. If I get a rescue or try a new breeder, it gets an IBD watch instead.

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Originally Posted by don15681

If worry about mites on a new snake, why not pam the new enclosure, 3 months from what I read about IBD is not nearly enough, plus you better quarantine your snakes in another building not just another room. It's rumor on the net about one of the morph gods who had a run with IBD. He was moving the BIG money snakes into his new building before the new building was complete. one of his employees stated that he was taking snakes to the dumpster by the boxs loads. The worst part of it, he was still selling as this was happening. He still won't admit to it. My point, if this can happen to him ( don't ask I won't say who it was, research yourself on the net ) and he has snakes that are over 20 K a piece (many).And you know that he quarantines but it still happened . How safe do you feel about 3 months and in the same building? I guess something is better than nothing, but by how much?

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Most of us live in houses and cant just "Build" a Quarantine house in the backyard. Escpecially when your thirteen and its your parents property. From your post you make it sound like you should have an eternal quarantine or something like that. :weirdface

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Originally Posted by jjsnakedude

Most of us live in houses and cant just "Build" a Quarantine house in the backyard. Escpecially when your thirteen and its your parents property. From your post you make it sound like you should have an eternal quarantine or something like that. :weirdface

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Quarantining in a different room in the house is just fine. Just take certain precautions to avoid spreading anything, and be very sanitized. Don't deal with new arrivals the same day you deal with your established collection, use different tongs, feed them last, clean their tubs AFTER you have cleaned the established collection's tubs, wash hands thoroughly after handling or having contact with anything in the new arrivals' tubs, etc. The list goes on.

IBD is a retro-virus and does not survive well outside the body, transmission appears to be from direct contact with the carriers or their body fluids. Yes, mites are generally responsible for the spread of the desease through entire collections. However the exchange of body fluids from fecal contamination, nasal and salivary secretions along with sex are also contributing factors of the spread of this desease. Because IBD can lie dormant in boas for months or even years. It is evidence that boas are the natural host of this virus and precautions and quarantine are important.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

By you not stating who he is after bringing him up in the first place I consider you just as liable of a person as he. Researching things like that on the internet are not quite so easy. That's one of the main purposes of this website, to provide information for people looking for it. You saying something like this and saying 'don't ask me' is redundant. Don't say anything at all if you're not going to play all the cards to back yourself up, or you just look like a fool.

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Hey, Crystal-ball, CHILL.
NO, obviously Don is not JUST AS LIABLE as a crooked dealer. Are you kidding me? That does not even make sense? Don was explaining the danger of not quarantining with a large collection, and even saying that you really can only trust any breeder so much. Don saying "don't ask me" is certainly not redundant, if you know what that word means. I do not think Don is a fool for not openly ridiculing a large breeding organization from whom he does not want the retribution. I am sure he has his reasons. It makes perfect sense.
Crystal, please please please think more profoundly before you chastise someone. You have made yourself out to seem quite foolish.

Don, thank you for your comments, I thought them to be perfectly suited to the thread.

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Originally Posted by jjsnakedude

I dont get why you have to do 3 months of quarantine from balls to balls. I mean are there any diseases that pop up in 2 1/2 months? I just dont get why you have to do it. I dont think your going to go really healthy for 2 months and then BAM! theres mites or RI or IBD. RI can happen in the established collection too. Im probably going to get bashed but I just want to know.

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I think people do two months because the vast majority of medical issues will be easily caught in that time frame. Two months is not some sort of written in stone rule, it just gives any illness that might not be evident right away time to show physical symptoms. It's really not a question of "BAM" your snake is sick after a couple months, more like, by two months, you should be 99% sure your snake ISN'T sick. By that time you can rule out pretty much any illness in BP's.

At the same time, if you think it's rediculous to do it for two months, and you trust the source of your snake, then you have the right not to quarentine. I won't call the BP police on you. You just run the risk of missing an illness that isn't evident right from the start! Simple as that. If you feel the benefits of adding a BP to your collection right away outweigh the risks, throw him right in.

At the same time, what you say about it not being 100% safe is absolutely true; you can't be sure after only two months that NOTHING is wrong with a snake, and you can't be sure that nothing will get transfered between snakes kept in the same house. But each of us does what we can to give ourselves the BEST odds possible. There will never be a way to quarentine that would protect you 100% (maybe keeping new snakes for a few years, in a seperate facility, run by people who never visited your own facility... etc...) so you do what you can to increase the odds and then take a chance on the rest. Even if general quarentining results in a 99% chance nothing will be passed from new snake to collection, 1% of the time something is going to be missed. Anyways, just my 2 cents on another sleepless night.

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Originally Posted by blackcrystal22

By you not stating who he is after bringing him up in the first place I consider you just as liable of a person as he.
Researching things like that on the internet are not quite so easy. That's one of the main purposes of this website, to provide information for people looking for it. You saying something like this and saying 'don't ask me' is redundant. Don't say anything at all if you're not going to play all the cards to back yourself up, or you just look like a fool.

Quarantine is mostly just to watch for RI's and mites for me, because of who the breeders are that I buy from. If I get a rescue or try a new breeder, it gets an IBD watch instead.

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My reply wasn't to bash a big time breeder. and this reply isn't to bash you. If I received a snake from any breeder big or little with IBD it would be posted who it was. It would of came from the source not hearsay. But reading something on the net you have to take it with a grain of salt. The breeders who was talking about it are trustworthy to the point that it got my attention. And I believed it enough to post. BUT my post wasn't to bash a breeder about something I read, but to make a point that if a huge breeder can get IBD and I'm sure he takes measures to protect the investment in his snakes. quarantine 3 month for IBD in or out of your house, how safe do you feel when you put that snake with the others. Just about anything else your snake could get is treatable, not that you would want to go that route. Mites, URI's, ect... sucks, but my nightmare is IBD.

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Originally Posted by jjsnakedude

But you could have waited 3 months and mabey there was still a parasite in it and then all your other snakes got it.

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but by waiting the three months you have given yourself the best chance of catching the problem.Chuck themtogether immediately and the problem will DEFINATELY be passed on. keep in QT for a few months and most problems should become evident during that time.

We're in the UK and haven't had as many major IBD scares and the like as you guys in the USA but we still QT our snakes for 3-6 (yep SIX) months depending on the species, their source and a few other factors.

By doing this my partner and I give ourselves the best chanceof seeing any issues at all (from the minor upto the major) and therefore give our established collection the best chance of getting no issues. By the time the QT period is over you should be as confident as it is possible ot be that the snake is healthy. 3 months is plenty oftime to be sure your mite treatments are effective (we treat all incoming animals), that the animal eats, sheds and poos ok and that no signs ofparesites are obvious. I know breeders who have blood and fecal tests done on all purchases, we have a vet friend who come with his microscope to help uspoo-check!

Completely ignoring the fact we've got multiple tens of thousands of dollars worth of animals here for the moment (although thats a factor!) we do it because it's our responsibility to our pets to do everything we can do to help prevent any problems getting into our collection.

From your young point of view you're thinking "mites and paresites aren't too bad" From our point of view we have to consider the worst case scenario, if we purchased an animal with, say, IBD I'd want to know trhat there was no chance the problem could have spread to the main collection.

We can't (like you) buildsome species, magical "quarentine facility" like some can but we can still ensure that QT happens away form the main collection (on another floor of the house) and that no people, animals or equipment passes from QT into the main collection.

Mites and internal paresites are the least of a herpers concern, but even the most straight forward case of mites can be deadly to entire collections. IF you buy rom someone with an IBD problem you ma not get an infected animal, you may just get a case of mites carrying the disease, which would spread it faster than any infected snake could alone.

QT is about taking whatever precautions it is possible for your to take in your circumstances there is no right or wrong way,right or wrong length of time. It's just up to you how much you are willing to risk when it comes to your animals health and the safetly of your investment. You don't have to do it, you could just be opening yourself up to a world of problems and the sensible thing to do is to do it.

Sorry if any of this is hard to read,i'm havingmajor problems with my space bar.

JJ....you should be able to know within two or three months if the snake has something. I personally think I would be able to tell in two months. I keep track of everything!!!! I use a program to record all urates, measurements, poo's, feedings and feeder weights. Anything out of the ordinary I document. This way you can see a pattern, you can see what the poo was like...etc. When handling my snakes....we handle the ones in our collection first....after that....then the one in Q. Also.....Qing in a different room is perfectly fine. Gosh I don't even have the ability to have a seperate house for Q. I just do it in a different room. :D

Don as far as IBD...wow this is such a question that I have been wondering for a long time.... for those of you that have boas AND pythons. I have always wondered since boas are carriers of this....and it CAN lie dormat.....how do you protect your pythons. ??? Are the boas ALWAYS Q'd from the pythons. Now don't get me wrong....I am not blasting anyone that keeps both. Just curious as to how they did it.

Thanks for the insightful replies everyone. I do quarantine with my snakes and do all the necesary precautions about it but i was just wondering why some people say 1 month. some people say 6 months and why most people do 3 months. I love this site because you get lots of opinions about every aspect of snake keeping. :)

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

JJ....you should be able to know within two or three months if the snake has something. I personally think I would be able to tell in two months. I keep track of everything!!!! I use a program to record all urates, measurements, poo's, feedings and feeder weights. Anything out of the ordinary I document. This way you can see a pattern, you can see what the poo was like...etc. When handling my snakes....we handle the ones in our collection first....after that....then the one in Q. Also.....Qing in a different room is perfectly fine. Gosh I don't even have the ability to have a seperate house for Q. I just do it in a different room. :D

Don as far as IBD...wow this is such a question that I have been wondering for a long time.... for those of you that have boas AND pythons. I have always wondered since boas are carriers of this....and it CAN lie dormat.....how do you protect your pythons. ??? Are the boas ALWAYS Q'd from the pythons. Now don't get me wrong....I am not blasting anyone that keeps both. Just curious as to how they did it.

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Well I have both boas and balls. Long ago I had them in the same room but do to expansion, and the higher temps maintained in the Ball room we moved the boas out. We now have 1200 sq foot for boas and 900 sq feet for balls. Qt is in several different rooms. If it came from 2 different places it qts in different rooms.

Now as far as my practices on QTing. Boas that are under a year are qted for 3-6 months. 1-2 years old are qted for 6 months to a year. (yes I am super paranoid). Balls are qted for 2-3 months. Best part of this is if anything weird happens. The qt time starts over.

Long and short. I don't get much new each year. I tell people I am my own best customer.

What are the symptoms and signs of something fatal like IBD? Is there anything that I should be specifically looking for? What do the mites look like in the water? What does healthy feces look like?

Sorry for the questions... but I want to know more about it so I can provide the best care for my ball python.

I think many here are confusing why you quarantine new animals. You don't put them in a QT tub and just feed and forget them for 3 months. You must look for issues to develop. Look for the ticks and mites. Examine the scat for worms/parasites. When you quarantine, you are acting like a doctor. Looking for issues to be brought to your attention.

I've found that almost exclusively, a sick snake comes from a bad breeder. Many times flippers will have issues too.

The most important rule I would recommend everyone follow is to know your breeder. Get references if you're buying through the internet.

Just my opinion,
Jim Smith

Got a ? since we are on this subject. What if you are just starting off and you buy 2 or 3 snakes from the same breeder? These would be the only snakes you have. Would you house them in different rooms or keep them in the same rack???

I ask this as I'm getting a cinny,pastel and spider this year from the same breeder all at the same time.

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Originally Posted by bman123

Got a ? since we are on this subject. What if you are just starting off and you buy 2 or 3 snakes from the same breeder? These would be the only snakes you have. Would you house them in different rooms or keep them in the same rack???

I ask this as I'm getting a cinny,pastel and spider this year from the same breeder all at the same time.

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Since they are coming from the same breeder I would put them in the same rack.

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Originally Posted by Shieny

What are the symptoms and signs of something fatal like IBD? Is there anything that I should be specifically looking for? What do the mites look like in the water? What does healthy feces look like?

Sorry for the questions... but I want to know more about it so I can provide the best care for my ball python.

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IBD in balls hits hard. I have never had balls with IBD but back in the 80's I lost my boa collection to it. The Vet I worked with, Dr. Roger Klingenberg told me that balls don't live much longer than a month once the get this. I had a friend that had a ball with IBD and it did live longer than a month, but like he told me. He had it into the vet all the time with RI and the ball was constantly on antibotics.

The way I look at IBD, is it is much like AIDS. IT's not so much the IBD that kills the animal but the break down in its amine system. In other words, constant RI or mouth rot, or whatever. A snake that does not eat, loses weight, skin dull etc, is not an animal you want to add to your "good room"

Mites look like black pepper in the water dish or on your animal. I will mash one and if it shushes red/brown, I figure it is a mite. Now I am older and my eye sight stinks so all my water dishes are light color and if I see something I mash it. Most all the time it's dirt or something else but...... I'm always looking.

I hate to break this to you guys, but paramyxovirus has an incubation period of up to ten months.

This information has caused me to revise my own quarantine procedure. It may be inconvenient, but it's crazy to only quarantine animals for 3 months when they could be harboring a disease with 30% or more kill rate, even with good supportive treatment.

I think people are much too quick to rush animals out of quarantine--usually to breed them, or for the space, etc. There's nothing that says you can't breed your quarantine group to each other, in quarantine. It's not worth exposing the rest of your collection.

Consider this--if someone gets a snake, quarantines it for 3 months, and then a month later decides to sell it, they sell it to you, you quarantine it for 3 months, it COULD STILL FALL ILL 3 months after you put it with the rest of your collection. The guy you bought it from never knew.

NOT worth the risk.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

I hate to break this to you guys, but paramyxovirus has an incubation period of up to ten months.

This information has caused me to revise my own quarantine procedure. It may be inconvenient, but it's crazy to only quarantine animals for 3 months when they could be harboring a disease with 30% or more kill rate, even with good supportive treatment.

I think people are much too quick to rush animals out of quarantine--usually to breed them, or for the space, etc. There's nothing that says you can't breed your quarantine group to each other, in quarantine. It's not worth exposing the rest of your collection.

Consider this--if someone gets a snake, quarantines it for 3 months, and then a month later decides to sell it, they sell it to you, you quarantine it for 3 months, it COULD STILL FALL ILL 3 months after you put it with the rest of your collection. The guy you bought it from never knew.

NOT worth the risk.

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what the Heck is that?!? Do you say we are going to have to quarantine them for almost a year? That sounds crazy.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

I hate to break this to you guys, but paramyxovirus has an incubation period of up to ten months.

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Where did you get this information? I googled it, and what I found (which all referred to humans, so I realize it may not be relevant) was talking about incubation periods that were measured in days, not months.

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Originally Posted by kc261

Where did you get this information? I googled it, and what I found (which all referred to humans, so I realize it may not be relevant) was talking about incubation periods that were measured in days, not months.

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They got it from this: http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s....php?p=1264310

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

They got it from this: http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s....php?p=1264310

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The only thing I found in that thread was another place where WingedWolfPsion said the same thing. I'd like to know where the information came from originally.

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Originally Posted by boasandballs

Well I have both boas and balls. Long ago I had them in the same room but do to expansion, and the higher temps maintained in the Ball room we moved the boas out. We now have 1200 sq foot for boas and 900 sq feet for balls. Qt is in several different rooms. If it came from 2 different places it qts in different rooms.

Now as far as my practices on QTing. Boas that are under a year are qted for 3-6 months. 1-2 years old are qted for 6 months to a year. (yes I am super paranoid). Balls are qted for 2-3 months. Best part of this is if anything weird happens. The qt time starts over.

Long and short. I don't get much new each year. I tell people I am my own best customer.

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But after Q.....of all the animals. Are you anal about keeping them totally apart for fear that one of your Boas might be a carrier of IBD? I am just really curious about this....sorry to question you so much. :rolleyes: Just trying to understand. Thank you so much for teaching me!!!!

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

But after Q.....of all the animals. Are you anal about keeping them totally apart for fear that one of your Boas might be a carrier of IBD? I am just really curious about this....sorry to question you so much. :rolleyes: Just trying to understand. Thank you so much for teaching me!!!!

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To tell the truth, they are in two different rooms. But I will work in the ball room 85 degrees. Until I can stand it no more and then I will work in the boa room. I have tort and chameleons in the boa room also.

The reason I don't worry much is
1) I don't buy much at all, and if I do it's always baby boas. The reason is because they are not as strong as adults and if they have it they die.
2) Most everything I have is offspring of animals I have kept for a long time.
3) If anything dies I have a necropsy done.

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

But after Q.....of all the animals. Are you anal about keeping them totally apart for fear that one of your Boas might be a carrier of IBD? I am just really curious about this....sorry to question you so much. :rolleyes: Just trying to understand. Thank you so much for teaching me!!!!

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I re read your post, and you are right. Boas can be healthy and be carriers of IBD. They can infect their partner and pass it on the their babies. If you have a clutch of babies that don't do well, that is when you test the parents. Live liver biopsies are not cheap but the peace of mind is priceless.

Dr Klinengerg developed a blood test for IBD. Sadly the drug companies said is was not profitable to produce it for commercial use. It does not give a definite no (it does not have it) but it will not give a false yes.

Thank you for all of that info. Just something my hubby and I were discussing and I always wondered!!

Wow...can't take 85 for very long....you wouldnt last long here in AZ with us huh.....lol:cool:

Here is the info on the Snake Virus Paramyxovirus.

http://www.reptilechannel.com/reptil...myxovirus.aspx

After having done ALL of my research, I now quarantine for 12 full months. Paramyxovirus can incubate with no more symptoms than an intermittent appetite for over 10 months!! (This info came from online accounts, and also I confirmed this with my veterinarian when I discussed whether blood tests for paramyxovirus were available--accurate tests are not available, by the way, or I would test every animal instead of quarantining for a year).

I try to purchase new animals all around the same time, over the course of a few months, then keep them separate from the rest of the collection for a year. I can breed them in quarantine, after all, just not to animals in my main collection. It simply is not worth the risk to bring an animal in to the main collection which could be carrying a deadly and contagious disease.

90 days may be enough time for most viral illnesses to present, but not all of them...if you're going to quarantine at all, why would you skip quarantining for one of the biggest baddest diseases out there?

This is not being over-cautious. These diseases are not rare enough, and the risk is just too high.