Raised scales? Beginning of scale rot? Mites?

I have some terrible timing, let me tell you. Go into a local family-run pet store to pick up a few things, and I overhear "Free ball python" and "he needs a home or he's going in the freezer". Yikes.

Mystery ball python was dropped off several months ago. He looked fine, but recently developed these weird bumps. Still eats fine, according to the people at the shop.

They did have a mite outbreak in the past 3 weeks, I'm not sure what they used to treat it but they did use a spray on the reptiles. (not sure if that is useful info.)

Vet isn't open until Sunday, so I hope someone has an idea what this is. It doesn't look like the pictures google showed me about scale rot, but I've never seen anything like this. Ideas?

(the link on the bottom goes to large pictures. There is no redness on his belly or around the raised scales. I've treated his new home with PAM and am being very careful about washing hands/not contaminating any of the other snakes in my care.)

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/d11443d5.jpg

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/59d4cce9.jpg

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/2764a703.jpg

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/fbe3febf.jpg

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/6cd09699.jpg

http://img502.imageshack.us/g/045jg.jpg/

I have no idea, sorry I can't help you. But I would advise you to QT this snake on the other side of the house. Do not use any tools, gloves, clothing etc, in between each room. I hope it's nothing, but it doesn't look good.

Good luck!
Jim Smith

Already doing that. :) Until I know what it is, I'm not taking chances.

Hi,

I'm not certain but they look a little like rodent bites?

If you look they seem to come in pairs all about the same width apart.

If they are rodent bites that hints that the snake may not be eating as well as they claimed.

If they sprayed the animals theres a high probability that they didn't use Provent-a-mite which is the most effective thing to use.

If you have this animal at home I would definately order some and treat not only the quarantine tank but the door into that room and the room the rest of your snakes are in and probably their enclosures as well.

But follow the instructions exactly as it is strong stuff - so much so don't use it if you have any insects you want to live like crickets or tarantulas etc.

But good quarantine is a definate must when taking on problem snakes.


dr del

I've never seen rodent bites on a snake (mine have all switched over to f/t thankfully.) but they're not all in pairs. There are spots where there's just one off on it's own, and there is no redness/open wounds. He's a fat boy, about as fat as my 2 year old BP but about half a foot shorter.

They didn't use PAM, I told them about it and to look into it. I use it at home and always have some on hand. Have already treated his new home with it prior to putting him in. I treat my snake-enclosures monthly with PAM when I clean out the cages. (last time was about 2 weeks ago.)

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

I'm not certain but they look a little like rodent bites?

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That was my thought as well. He looks pretty beat up! I have an albino that came to me that way and it's hard to say for sure with the color difference, but it definitely could be. Or stuck shed, perhaps? The tip of his tail looks suspect, though.

My albino shed out really nicely and has a few little lasting scars, but the discolored scales are gone and you'd have to look hard to notice. Hopefully your little boy will, too!

It doesn't look like what I have experienced with mites at all, but treating with PAM is still a good idea.

I couldn't get a good picture of it, but there are a few places where there's just a raised scale away from anything else. I know this shop does feed live, but they have several herp-intelligent people there who do supervise the feedings. Do rodent bites go straight to looking like this, and not showing any kind of wound/blood?

Someone else brought up the idea of ticks. If he'd been infected with ticks, would it leave raised scales? I didn't see any bugs on him (mites or otherwise) but since he was recently treated at the pet shop, I have no idea if that would have knocked out ticks as well.

(and yeah, I always treat newcomers with PAM no matter the source. ;) I'd rather just stock up on prevention and never have to deal with annoying bugs.)

i would have to agree they do like like rodent bits but to be safe i would treat the snake for mites and do the same to all your other snakes. just as a precaution.

He looks like he may have some retained shed on his snout.

they sure look like rodent bites,especially the last pic.i'd put neosporin on them as a precaution.i'm glad you rescued him the poor guy has probaily been thru hell.

if he was feeding well why were the pet shop people going to put him in the freezer? i'd wait 2-3 weeks then try a F/K or thawed rodent.good luck.

The way the store made it sound, the bumps showed up gradually over the past few weeks, which is why I'm a bit hesitant to think they're bite wounds.

They didn't know what was wrong with him, and didn't want to pay to take him to a vet. They were hoping someone would feel sorry for him and take him home/fix him up. I need to go back later this week anyway, so I'm hoping to talk to the girl who actually cares/feeds the snake in order to get more details. She's the one who supervises when they feed, so I'm guessing she'd notice if he'd gotten bit. (of course, I'm sure the vet can tell me either way what they are, I'll just breathe a lot easier when I know what it is. :P )

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Originally Posted by Nevadamoon

The way the store made it sound, the bumps showed up gradually over the past few weeks, which is why I'm a bit hesitant to think they're bite wounds.

They didn't know what was wrong with him, and didn't want to pay to take him to a vet. They were hoping someone would feel sorry for him and take him home/fix him up. I need to go back later this week anyway, so I'm hoping to talk to the girl who actually cares/feeds the snake in order to get more details. She's the one who supervises when they feed, so I'm guessing she'd notice if he'd gotten bit. (of course, I'm sure the vet can tell me either way what they are, I'll just breathe a lot easier when I know what it is. :P )

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go to the vet. :gj:

Yup, got an appointment Tuesday unless someone cancels on Monday, and then they're giving me a call. Herp vet doesn't like coming into work on the weekends, and my other exotics vet is mostly bird-specialized. (So said he could take a look, but might not have much help to offer me.)

These are pictures from today, someone mentioned you can see the placement/bumps better in them. He's been very relaxed all day, and acting all the world like a normal BP, so I'm of the opinion that the bumps aren't causing him much discomfort and that he feels pretty good otherwise. Gave him a soak earlier today since I figured a warm bath couldn't hurt, but otherwise I'm holding off on doing anything until after speaking to the vet tomorrow or Tuesday. (Keeping my fingers crossed there will be a cancellation and I can get in tomorrow.)

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/e1a14980.jpg

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/794ef9d5.jpg

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/96694f96.jpg

To me, some of the scales look dry. Sometimes when snakes shed and the humidity wasn't high enough the molting skin will take some parts of the skin with it, making some of the scales feel more rough or sticky-ish. This has happened to me a few times, so that's why I think it could've been that.

From what I have seen, scale rot normally starts out on the underside. But, the scales that look funny could also be bites from a rodent as dr del said.

It does look like old scars....are you sure they were not there when you first got him. Maybe they are getting lighter in color due to an upcoming shed???

Also ticks will raise scales they look like a little black bump under the scales. Get a magnifying glass and try to take a look. You will be able to see them kind of behind the scale...so to speak.

Mind you this is all research I have done and pics I have seen. Never seen it in person. Just read ALOT!!

Is he acting normal?

acutally I was posting while you were putting up new pics. Is it getting worse??? Those pics make it look worse than it did. I take it back...that doesn't look like scars. And to be honest.....I have no clue. I will do some research and if I find anything I will let you know. sorry...



Also I know you are practicing good quarantine rules....but try to everything with this snake last. You never know what you might be able to transfer on just your clothes.

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Originally Posted by CoolioTiffany

To me, some of the scales look dry. Sometimes when snakes shed and the humidity wasn't high enough the molting skin will take some parts of the skin with it, making some of the scales feel more rough or sticky-ish. This has happened to me a few times, so that's why I think it could've been that.

From what I have seen, scale rot normally starts out on the underside. But, the scales that look funny could also be bites from a rodent as dr del said.

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They definitely feel rough/dry and do not have fluid or anything under them. You can't see skin or redness either. I know at the store their herps are kept pretty dry, just above desert humidity. Not sure when he shed last.


BPelizabeth- I've only had him for just a bit over 24 hours. When the store got him (a few months ago) he was smooth and normal looking. Then he started getting bumpy. I don't know if he shed in that time, I was going back to the pet store in a few days anyway and will probably ask the girl who's more in charge of caring for the herps. (Vet visit will probably happen before I get back in there, though.) No mites or ticks, though the store did recently have a bug problem. He was sprayed with something at the store like the other reptiles a few weeks ago. Not sure what it was, or if it would have killed the bugs and left his scales as they are now. (It does sound like the bugs and the bumps starting showed up at around the same time.)

He acts completely normal. Haven't fed him yet, but he doesn't breath hard/heavy, doesn't sneeze, and acts just like any other snake. Very comfy with being handled and will explore around a little while you hold him.

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

acutally I was posting while you were putting up new pics. Is it getting worse??? Those pics make it look worse than it did. I take it back...that doesn't look like scars. And to be honest.....I have no clue. I will do some research and if I find anything I will let you know. sorry...



Also I know you are practicing good quarantine rules....but try to everything with this snake last. You never know what you might be able to transfer on just your clothes.

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Looks just like it did yesterday, but he's more relaxed today so I was able to get pictures that weren't just him balled up. :P They kind of pull flat when he's balled up, and most are concentrated on his front half so I didn't get them in the initial pictures.

I don't plan on really handling him much til he's settled in, but yup. Handling him last and changing clothes/showering before touching other snakes.

Ok....I pulled out all of my handy dandy books and went through them all. I did find an interesting thing. It is called Dermal Fungal Infection. Typically it is caused by unsanitary conditions or overly moist conditions. The scales can loose their shine and some areas can become raised. At times even start to look like a burn eventually.


I also found this on a website...
Blisters/Bullae: The difference between the two is simply a matter of size. In both cases, they result from being kept in an environment that is too moist (terrestrial reptiles), or dirty water (aquatic and semi-aquatic turtles). While they may be free of bacteria when first formed, when they break, they permit bacteria to enter through the resulting defect, which can lead to localized infection or septicemia ("blood poisoning", or system-wide infection).

Crusts: dried intracellular fluid, blood and other matter that forms on top of a laceration or abrasion. Before these areas dry and become crusty, they will be seen and felt as a thin, wet, clear or yellowish fluid.

Cysts: these large, fluid filled structures are most commonly associated with subcutaneous parasites, such as tapeworm. Other causes include the traumatic separation of the epidermis from the dermis below, burns, or other severe trauma.


Nodules: granulomas which are usually associated with many kinds of infection, from bacteria, fungi or parasites. In order to appropriately treat the underlying condition, proper diagnosis must be made.

Parasites: besides ticks and mites, there are various endoparasites which live part of their life cycle inside the host, and then migrate outwards, through organs and tissues, to form small nodes or bumps under the skin, which may or may not create exudates or crusts. The parasite does cause an irritation, which, when in its usual host, will cause the host to rub up against something to 'scratch the itch'. This serves to break open the already inflamed skin, freeing the parasite to move on to its next stage. With the lack of proper quarantine and generally filthy conditions endemic in the pet trade, animals - and humans - are coming into contact with, and playing host to, parasites which don't normally inhabit them. This can result in a parasitic nodule sitting under the skin, causing an inflammatory reaction. If not removed properly, it can cause stress, leading to infection...or infect the human who carelessly picks at it.

Patches of skin color/texture change: may be associated with fungi or bacterial infections, necessitating proper diagnosis to determine the required treatment


Sorry I don't have any more for you....I am glad that you have a vet appt. though. Keep us updated.

My bet is that this is some sort of a systemic infection and the ball is septic. I suppose it could be rat bites but I still think he's septic. I know your going to take him to the vet. DO NOT GET HIM ANYWHERE NEAR ANY OTHER SNAKE. And wash your hands very very very well, don't let him touch your clothing or anything till he is treated.

Ya those look to me like old scars from rodent bites, but the collapsed scales on his head could be dehydration or something, do you see what I am talking about from the picture of his head?, the scales look crunched down, I wonder what that is about...

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Originally Posted by singingtothewheat

My bet is that this is some sort of a systemic infection and the ball is septic. I suppose it could be rat bites but I still think he's septic. I know your going to take him to the vet. DO NOT GET HIM ANYWHERE NEAR ANY OTHER SNAKE. And wash your hands very very very well, don't let him touch your clothing or anything till he is treated.

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Yep, taking all those precautions. :gj: I don't see any redness or anything that looks irritated/infected, so I'm hoping it's not septic but I'm sure the vet will tell me either way. Was hoping someone would cancel today and I could get in, but no luck so far. Tomorrow, though.


Ham- I don't really know a good way to describe the scales. There aren't any indentions, the scales are just rough and pushed up a bit, but with no fluid or anything pushing them up. (Whether or not something was under there- like ticks, mites, etc, I don't know.) His vent looks normal, and his belly doesn't have any marks or bumps on it. You can't see muscle, skin, or redness under or around the scales, and he doesn't seem to care if you push on them. Of course, I have no idea if snakes' brains are wired in a way that they would feel pain from skin-type irritations/injuries.

They way they all seem the same size makes me think encysted parasites, but it definitely does NOT look good.

I agree...the more I look at it the more I think it really is a dermal infection from some type of parasite.

Let us know after you get back from the vet. By the way...good on you for handling this and getting him to the vet. Believe it or not ......some would not.

So I was wondering how the vet trip went....did they figure anything out?

The vet thinks they might be water blisters. NOT blister disease, but blisters from being in too high of humidity. He scraped some of the bumps and came up negative for fungus, and he didn't see any signs of bacterial infections. Said he couldn't rule out past parasites but didn't find any current ones hiding under scales, and wants me to bring in a stool sample whenever the snake poos next. (In case of internal parasites, which wouldn't really change how he looks on the outside but a good thing to check for anyway.) He told me to just be careful on husbandry (temps/humidity) and if anything changes (More symptoms, more bumps, etc.) to come back in. If the first shed doesn't help/change things he wants me to bring him back in to be checked out again, but he was thinking that what it looked most like where blisters from humidity. To be safe, obviously I'm still being pretty careful with QT issues since the vet said that testing negative isn't always an indication it doesn't have fungus, just means it didn't turn up on the test.

nevada....I did read that internal parasites can cause blisters (so to speak) on the outside. So really try to get that stool sample to him.

Sorry I am just anal at reading everything....lol...and they say...you can never be too informed

Not to question the vet at all......buttttttttt....I did not think your humidity was that high was it? Maybe I am just remembering wrong.

There is a guy on here called Crittervet. Maybe shoot him an PM with the pics.....ya know...just for a second opinion.

I can't really force him to poo, so it's kind of a waiting game on that one.

I don't know what humidity he was at before, I keep mine at between 30-40% but I don't know what the store keeps theirs at. haven't been back to check.

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Originally Posted by Nevadamoon

I can't really force him to poo, so it's kind of a waiting game on that one.

I don't know what humidity he was at before, I keep mine at between 30-40% but I don't know what the store keeps theirs at. haven't been back to check.

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:O What...oh cmon.....:rofl:

Yea 30 to 40% is low ...we typically recommend 60%. But ya know...I haven't been doing this long so really what do I know. :rolleyes:

Just never have heard of that...typically you hear about scale rot if it is too wet?????

I usually give them some moss around shedding time and bump it up a bit, but otherwise I've had nothing but healthy snakes with good sheds and such at that humidity. All of mine have huge dishes to soak in, so maybe it just works for me.

The vet said he'd only seen a few other cases of blistering like this, and it looked really similar but wasn't as spread. it was his best guess as to what it could be, mostly by ruling other things out. If I don't see an improvement after the next shed he wants me to bring him back in, or I might drive a few hours to see another vet.

It seems mine like to hold up their poo and then drop a huge load on me. :P My little hogg island girl just dropped a 10gram poo today. (My roommate dared me to weight it. Boys. e_e Keep in mind, she's only about 200 grams herself...)

You don't have to wait for a poo, the vet can do a cloacal wash to get a sample.

I totally want to know the results of this!! I just got a new bp 2wks ago and I don't know his background so I need to be prepared!!!

I'm resurrecting this thread because I was at the pet store today and saw 2 emaciated juvenile ball pythons with the same thing you see in the pictures on pages 1 and 2 of this thread.

I didn't see any conclusive finding here.

The pet store really doesn't take good care of them though.

The 2 are kept together in a glass terrarium with paper lining on the bottom, not a single good hide (one crappy triceratops head). They don't have a thermometer in there, and they regulate heat with a heat lamp which as far as I can tell they turn on and off on whim.

I tried to talk to them about it, but they are so not receptive to my advice.

Does anyone know what this condition is(the bumps) so I can help in at least some way?

The owner's pigheaded attitude really pisses me off.

When my boa had mites his scales were like this. It could also be a bad shed or low humidity wherever it came from. I would soak in water with a few drops of non-toxic dish soap for mites, then quarantine.

From the way you describe it, it sounds like edema. I took Angie to the vet because she started wheezing and she had two small pathes of three or four raised scales. If you looked below them, you could see that there was sweeling in the tissue underneath. They gave me antibiotics after blood tests and a cream for her scales. It worked like a charm. Hope this helps