Mystery Morph--- Help Me Figure Him Out!

Hey guys! First of all I'm new to this site and am loving it so far! Ok now down to business. I bought this boy off of another website. It was sold to me as a normal even though the owner and I both knew something was up with him. I'm thinking he could possibly be a spector ball python. He's got some crazy nice blushing going on and only get better with sheds. I'll have to wait til next year to breed him with my YB female (so I'll keep my fingers crossed), but until then I'd love to hear your guesses and suggestions about the lil fella. Thanks in advance for looking!!:snake:

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...11c81fe5fd.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...4099f6a819.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...0_01250029.jpg

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...0_01250028.jpg

Ok I hope I done this right and the images show up!!! :please:

Here's the pic that was in the ad when I bought him. Yep this is the one that got me hooked lol:bow:

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...13sale0020.jpg

Believe it or not, some normals can look like that. I love the blushing on the side!

Very nice, unfortunatly I really have no meaningful input to your question but he doesnt look like your typical wild type. Good luck with that and be sure to keep us posted. Ohh and welcome :gj:

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Originally Posted by mainbutter

Believe it or not, some normals can look like that. I love the blushing on the side!

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Oh yeah I know normals 'can' look like that, but gosh he's just wild looking. I'm just gonna hope and pray he proves out for me. I won't be out of much in the end besides some heart ache lol.:weirdface

Thanks for the welcome!! :banana:This is a nice site.

I would try him with a YB..if nothing else, he may prove that striping on the back to be genetic

I have no idea what he may be but I think you made a fantastic choice to breed him to a Yellow Belly. IMO even if he's not a Spector it would be awesome if his color and blushing passed down to his YB offspring. Mmm.. Extreme YB's anyone? :P

No idea, but his flames would make some awesome yellowbellies!

I dont think he is a normal. Prove him out tho, might be some genetic stripe

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Originally Posted by Sarin

I have no idea what he may be but I think you made a fantastic choice to breed him to a Yellow Belly. IMO even if he's not a Spector it would be awesome if his color and blushing passed down to his YB offspring. Mmm.. Extreme YB's anyone? :P

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oh-la-la I like the sound of extreme YB's haha:gj:

Looks like a nice high colored normal.

What is with everyone assuming their normals are specters lately? Specters must be the replacement confusing morph for the YB. :confused:

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

Looks like a nice high colored normal.

What is with everyone assuming their normals are specters lately? Specters must be the replacement confusing morph for the YB. :confused:

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I didn't know that everyone was assuming their normals are spectors. I'm sorry if this post wasn't to your taste. I just simply wanted others opinions and all I know is that he doesn't look like a common normal IMO and his genetics are unknown. But thanks for stopping in and giving your opinion. :)

I was told it looks like some sort of harly cross. Very Nice :gj:

I dont know what he is but he is very nice and has a different look to him! Great find and good luck!:)

It is a very attractive snake. Normal? Prove him out and find out.

I agree with those that said that YB is a good cross for him. The flames/blushing on his sides could make some awesome YBs.

i would buy a lemon pastel yb female and breed him to that! cause that would be one freaking bright snake in my opinion!

EDIT: B-E-A-UTIFUL in my god honest opinion!

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Originally Posted by SinisterSerpents

I didn't know that everyone was assuming their normals are spectors. I'm sorry if this post wasn't to your taste. I just simply wanted others opinions and all I know is that he doesn't look like a common normal IMO and his genetics are unknown. But thanks for stopping in and giving your opinion. :)

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Dont feel bad, I got it too lol. Problem here is people want you to talk about your plans and your ideas but unless you say (yes I know its only speculation until proven BUT) you get shot down. Seems it will happen even IF you repeatedly say that. This is why some people keep it quiet. Which is also shirked. Go figure... I think this is why some people who do eventually prove out their dinkers develope terrible attitudes. Because they were shot down before hand.. Its a terrible cycle but no one got anywhere without their dinkers!

Seriously though, dont let it bother you. Really any dinker project is just your own assumption until proven by you. Its always exciting so just do it for you.

IMHO your snake is too light to be a specter. Im having the same thoughts with one of my normals but she is much darker than yours. Specters generally have solid black bands on the sides with little to no flames or blushing. Yes its thought a long neck stripe is a good indicator but they should also have a clean belly. I noticed that yours does not have clear belly scales. There are lots of markings going through the belly scales. Not a promising sign for it to be a morph. Just remember. Pattern is often passed on even if its not a morph. This doesnt mean its a morph or anything genetic. Its just the way it happens sometimes. For breeding ideas I would try something with a bit of a stripe as well. It would be nice to see even normals with a nice stripe like that come of it. Try to find a YB with some stripe. You may be able to improve on it even.

It's a normal until you prove it out with something.

Hard to say what it could be, to me it looks like a nice normal to be honest.

can we get some pics of these specters up? lol i thought i was up on my ball game but ive never seen one.

He is pretty wicked! I would have picked him up too just to dink with him. There are many snakes out there that have even crazier patterns and aren't anything but normals breeding after breeding. I would just call him a dinker for now. He may or may not pass his pattern on, but's he's pretty awesome!

Here ya go.. They look very different as babies. They start out pretty light but get alot darker as they age..

~Property of JD Constriction... Spector ball~

http://jdconstriction.com/images/spector.jpg

Cant find alot of pictures of them but I have seem more pictures of spectors in the past on a UK reptile forum.

For some reason some people spell it specter while others spell it spector so I'm not sure which is right one LOL

I don't know if this will work or not, but if you go to this website there are a pic of 2 spectors up.

http://www.captivebredreptileforums....ll-python.html

or if that doesn't work just copy and paste this and look up spector.

http://www.captivebredreptileforums.co.uk

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Dont feel bad, I got it too lol. Problem here is people want you to talk about your plans and your ideas but unless you say (yes I know its only speculation until proven BUT) you get shot down. Seems it will happen even IF you repeatedly say that. This is why some people keep it quiet. Which is also shirked. Go figure... I think this is why some people who do eventually prove out their dinkers develope terrible attitudes. Because they were shot down before hand.. Its a terrible cycle but no one got anywhere without their dinkers!

Seriously though, dont let it bother you. Really any dinker project is just your own assumption until proven by you. Its always exciting so just do it for you.

IMHO your snake is too light to be a specter. Im having the same thoughts with one of my normals but she is much darker than yours. Specters generally have solid black bands on the sides with little to no flames or blushing. Yes its thought a long neck stripe is a good indicator but they should also have a clean belly. I noticed that yours does not have clear belly scales. There are lots of markings going through the belly scales. Not a promising sign for it to be a morph. Just remember. Pattern is often passed on even if its not a morph. This doesnt mean its a morph or anything genetic. Its just the way it happens sometimes. For breeding ideas I would try something with a bit of a stripe as well. It would be nice to see even normals with a nice stripe like that come of it. Try to find a YB with some stripe. You may be able to improve on it even.

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Thank you for your comment! I'm not letting this bother me at all. It takes a lil more than this to get under my skin. Like I said b4 I just wanted some opinions without the attitude. And so far I'm getting what I was wanting so I thank you all. Keep em coming.:)

Ok, maybe it's just me, but the pictures of Spectors/Specters look more like normals than this normal.

I guess I'm just not good at picking up on the subtle morphs.

Anyway, you have a very lovely snake, and I hope it produces some amazing babies for you.

Gale

Its a normal for sure in my eyes just a reallllllllly realllllllly nice one lol

after the yellowbelly trial, i would stick it with a lesser....thats an ideal pattern for a reduced lesser if you ask me!!

PRobably just a really nice normal,every single breeder has animals in their collection like it, unique animals that don't proove genetic. We have a very similar looking normal here.

Remember in the past some of the wildest looking balls proved not to be genetic.Ask Ralph Davies, BHB et al. This guy from BHB is a very good example of a snake that proved NOT to be genetic.

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/im...oven_viper.gif

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Originally Posted by mason

PRobably just a really nice normal,every single breeder has animals in their collection like it, unique animals that don't proove genetic. We have a very similar looking normal here.

Remember in the past some of the wildest looking balls proved not to be genetic.Ask Ralph Davies, BHB et al. This guy from BHB is a very good example of a snake that proved NOT to be genetic.

http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/im...oven_viper.gif

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WOW that was a wild looking snake! I'm fine with him being a normal, just hoping he will prove out. Yeah I had BHB look at him. Him, like everyone else, suggested breeding him out. Which of course is my plan.:cool:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

For some reason some people spell it specter while others spell it spector so I'm not sure which is right one LOL

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I have to assume that Specter is the correct spelling. Specter means ghost or apparition. Spector isn't a word (although wikipedia tells me there is a Bass Guitar company called Spector, so maybe the original breeder of the 'Spector' is also a bassist?).

More on topic, that is one sweet snake, I would definately see what that can produce. Looks more like a morph than most morphs nowadays lol. Here's hoping he proves out!

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Originally Posted by MustBeSatan

I have to assume that Specter is the correct spelling. Specter means ghost or apparition. Spector isn't a word (although wikipedia tells me there is a Bass Guitar company called Spector, so maybe the original breeder of the 'Spector' is also a bassist?).

More on topic, that is one sweet snake, I would definately see what that can produce. Looks more like a morph than most morphs nowadays lol. Here's hoping he proves out!

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i guess if you name the morph you can make up words and spell them anyway you want too

One of my normals has the blushing that yours does. She is an 08 so I am breeding her next year hopefully but she doesn't have the patterning like yours does. I say, prove him out :D

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Originally Posted by A.S_Reptillions

One of my normals has the blushing that yours does. She is an 08 so I am breeding her next year hopefully but she doesn't have the patterning like yours does. I say, prove him out :D

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good luck and keep us updated!

One of the nicest normals I have ever seen, if indeed it is a normal. Fantastic actually :)

it's always worth keeping pretty normals around and hoping for the best. Most do end up being just that though, pretty normals.
Like this girl we have here:

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/i...e/IMG_2843.jpg

not the best picture, but you get the idea.

She's a beautiful girl!! Yeah I'll probably keep him even if he doesn't prove out. :)

He is a great lookin snake for sure! I think breeding him to a YB would be a great idea regardless of whether he proves or not! Best of luck with him!

I really need a better picture of my Spector/Specter lol. Here is a bit newer of one ;)

http://i419.photobucket.com/albums/p...g/DSC_2917.jpg

Wow check out the flaming on him! Very bright, pretty snake!:gj:

Oh, sorry I should have mentioned. The bright flamed snake is the female Yellowbelly. The one on the left with the semi-complete stripe is the Specter. :)

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Originally Posted by SinisterSerpents

Wow check out the flaming on him! Very bright, pretty snake!:gj:

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Originally Posted by jpman78

Oh, sorry I should have mentioned. The bright flamed snake is the female Yellowbelly. The one on the left with the semi-complete stripe is the Specter. :)

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hehe well now dont i feel like a dummy---:weirdface I still am not good enough to tell the spectors. They look like normals to me?? Is there a good marker to go by??:confused:

My YB female looks a lot like yours, but shes just a 09.

Well some of you may remember this thread. But I have some bad news. I found Lenny dead in his bin 2 days ago.:tears: Heat was perfect, he was feeding perfectly, shedding perfectly, no signs of anything. Ugh... makes me sick to my tummy. Never did get a YB in time to breed him with. :(

I am soooo sorry for your loss. Are you going to have a post mortem done to see what happened?

Oh goodness I'm sorry. Definitely have him checked out to determine the cause of death, we'd all be wrenched to see a repeat tragedy like this.

Cheers,
-Matt

Thank you both. I didn't keep him because I've heard (don't know if its true) that after a snake has been frozen an necropsy does no good because the temps do 'something' to the organs???? Maybe someone can shed some light on this.

I also just lost my male bumblee bee to an URI. Had taken him to the vet and had him on Baytril and thought he was getting better, then found him dead. I know my dinker didn't have an URI, first bc there were no signs, second he was in a completely different room than my bumble bee bc he was being quarentined.

Just had a lot of bad luck lately. Thinking about selling all my BP's and just sticking with the colubrids.:confused:

Sorry to hear about them both.

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Originally Posted by SinisterSerpents

Just had a lot of bad luck lately. Thinking about selling all my BP's and just sticking with the colubrids.:confused:

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Don't just jump out and sell off.... just do research, and figure out what you are doing wrong. I am not trying to insult you in any way, shape, or form... but when you have young, previously healthy snakes dying and getting respiratory infections, odds are it isn't bad luck but something you are doing wrong.

Don't know if there are any other threads on this but would you care to describe your set up and all your practices and procedures so we can help you trouble shoot?

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Don't just jump out and sell off.... just do research, and figure out what you are doing wrong. I am not trying to insult you in any way, shape, or form... but when you have young, previously healthy snakes dying and getting respiratory infections, odds are it isn't bad luck but something you are doing wrong.

Don't know if there are any other threads on this but would you care to describe your set up and all your practices and procedures so we can help you trouble shoot?

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I totally understand what you are saying. My husband and I have kept some sort of snakes for over 10 years, and he had them before we met. So we've done the research and I feel that we know what we are doing. As far as their set up, we keep them in rack systems, some have back heat, some have belly heat (we are building more to eventually have them all on belly heat). Basking temps run around 88 or so and cool sides run around 79-80. Humidity is always on target. We totally clean their bins once a week if not twice and spot check every day. Water bowls are washed and cleaned every 2 days. Almost all eat F/T. All are in seperate bins. Anything else you'd need to know to help me??

I don't think that 2 snakes dying out of over 100 is too bad. My first personal snake was a BP and I still have him and he's well. Never had this to happen to any of my other BP's. (With the exception of a pastel girl that I got and she had an pneumonia and couldn't be saved even with medication treatment) I honestly don't think I'm doing anything wrong, and I do feel like its a string of bad luck. The bumble bee died from the URI or the Baytril I know, but my lil dinker just has be bumfuzzled. I'm thinking he had something internally wrong. I mean they could look healthy, but now be. So maybe he was not a 'previously healthy snake', but had something wrong from the get go that the naked eye couldn't see??

Thanks again!

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Originally Posted by SinisterSerpents

I didn't keep him because I've heard (don't know if its true) that after a snake has been frozen an necropsy does no good because the temps do 'something' to the organs???? Maybe someone can shed some light on this.

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I'm so sorry for your loss :( He was a beautiful boy.

The freezing and thawing process does cause tissue damage, so while the basic structures of the organs are maintained, the pathologists have a really hard time interpreting anything on histopath (microscope slides). So, they might've been able to tell you if he had an enlarged heart, for example, or a big tumor somewhere, but if the body had been previously frozen, they might not have been able to tell you if there were viral inclusions somewhere, or if any nodules looked malignant, etc..

For future reference, if you can't get the body to the pathologist right away, the pathologists I've talked to recommend putting an animal in the 'fridge for a few days (as opposed to the freezer). They told me it's easier to interpret around a little bit of post-mortem necrosis than ice crystal damage. :weirdface

IMO I think *most* (though obviously not all!) husbandry-error related disease is going to manifest first with at least some clinical signs (URI, bad shedding, anorexia, etc.) as opposed to sudden death, but one other thing I'd give a lot of thought to is: have you added any new animals recently and if so, how long (if at all) were they quarantined for?

Again, I am so sorry -- it *always* sucks to lose an animal, but sudden death is the worst because without a necropsy (which isn't always possible to do), you're always left wondering. There's probably a very good chance that it wasn't your fault -- a lot of "silent" things can cause sudden death, such as heart disease, and I do often wonder if these things are actually a lot more prevalent in our exotic pets than most people realize (especially those that already outwardly express a mutation -- ie, morphs).

All of my animals are quarentined. We now have a sepearate room that we keep new animals in for a 7-8 weeks. Thanks so much for your info. That was very helpful. I'll have to remember the fridge trick.