Corn snake morph identity?

2 years ago she was bred and produced snows, anerys, and normals. She's a recent addition to the family, and we were curious what she might be. She doesn't really look like the snows I've seen, but I'm not really familiar with what corn morphs look like as adults. (I'm used to seeing them as babies. :P)

Pictures are with the flash, which brings out her yellow more. (but she is very yellow even in daylight.)

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/2a874110.jpg

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/6e680737.jpg
The checkerboard pattern goes all the way down her belly.

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/a964bb21.jpg
In sunlight

Wow! If I had to make a guess, I would say either a VERY yellow Snow.....or quite possibly a yellow Creamcicle. Not 100% sure, though. What a beauty! I :love: her. :D

Assuming it is a pure corn, I would guess a yellow snow. Butters can also be very yellow, but I don't think they are white like that between the saddles.

Creamsicles are a hybrid with another species of ratsnake, emory I think. I'm not nearly as familiar with them so I don't know about that.

PS - I forgot you mentioned she had been bred. Snow is consistent with producing snows, anerys, and normals. Butter is not, so I think we can rule that out.

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Originally Posted by Becca Granger

Wow! If I had to make a guess, I would say either a VERY yellow Snow.....or quite possibly a yellow Creamcicle. Not 100% sure, though. What a beauty! I :love: her. :D

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She's a sweetheart, too! Just wants to be on you all the time. Beauty and looks. (though, not like there's too many horrible and nasty corns out there, I guess. :P)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kc261

Assuming it is a pure corn, I would guess a yellow snow. Butters can also be very yellow, but I don't think they are white like that between the saddles.

Creamsicles are a hybrid with another species of ratsnake, emory I think. I'm not nearly as familiar with them so I don't know about that.

PS - I forgot you mentioned she had been bred. Snow is consistent with producing snows, anerys, and normals. Butter is not, so I think we can rule that out.

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I'm assuming she's a pure corn, but not sure. The person we got her from (who bred her) said she was a snow corn, but wasn't really sure on her heritage apart from that. I don't really care too much either way, was just curious. She is a big girl, easily over 4' by a couple of inches. Heavy, too, but she was used to eating live rat pups. (He also described her as being a "garbage disposal". :P She's not picky by any stretch, we offered her a f/t mouse and she gobbled it up no problem.)

I'm not really sure what she was bred with, but I figured that her offspring would give a bit of a clue to her heritage. I didn't see the snows she produced so I'm not really sure if they had the same bright yellow saddles or not.

That snow has more yellow than any snow I've ever seen. Very pretty. It wouldn't surprise me if she had some emoryi in her somewhere in the line. Her saddles don't look quite corny enough, but that doesn't really mean much, just a guess.

Breed her to a ghost and see what you get.

What does breeding to ghost do? (Sorry, I'm not familiar with corn snake genetics much at all. :P) Would it bring out some things if she were snow, and others if she was something else? Or just generally make some interesting babies?

There's been some thought to breeding her to this handsome anery boy:
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...iherps/037.jpg
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...iherps/034.jpg
With the thought we'd probably end up with some nice anerys and snows.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nevadamoon

What does breeding to ghost do? (Sorry, I'm not familiar with corn snake genetics much at all. :P) Would it bring out some things if she were snow, and others if she was something else? Or just generally make some interesting babies?

There's been some thought to breeding her to this handsome anery boy:
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...iherps/037.jpg
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...iherps/034.jpg
With the thought we'd probably end up with some nice anerys and snows.

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With the ghost you should get snows and anerys and maybe a surprise or two. That boy in the picture looks like an anery, can't remember if yellow is A or B, so you might get snow, you might not.

Blue Apple Paste is more up on corn genetics. If he doesn't reply to this thread I'd pm him and ask.

Okay, thanks. :) I'm pretty much certain the big guy is an anery. Hard to get a full body shot of him (He's 4' and very curious!) but these show his body a bit more:
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...0001975724.jpg
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...0001975724.jpg
http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...iherps/031.jpg
The yellow on his sides is on his front half.


Also (to keep all my annoying questions to one thread), is this an anery or ghost? I had thought she was an anery, but she does have some fading in her saddles and her eyes are a lot brighter then the big guy's. This picture is from last summer, I'll have to get a more recent one of her now. (Especially considering she just shed last week!) She is a bit browner then the big guy, and her head pattern looks a bit more like the outline of the scream guy compared to the spider-y looking thing on the top of the big anery.

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/197bfe9a.jpg

That is probably one of the most beautiful corns I have ever seen. I seriously love that thing. Gotta keep my eyes open for one now.

OK, let's see if I can manage to remember everything I wanted to say. :P

You said she's a garbage disposal. Just in case you don't know, corns can get obese, so be sure not to overfeed her.

Genetics...
Snow is a combination of amel and anery. Ghost is a combination of anery and hypo. If you breed her to a ghost, you would expect to get anerys 100% het for amel and hypo. However, it is very common for corns to have unknown hets, so it would not be surprising to also get snows (because the ghost was het amel) or ghosts (because the snow is het hypo).

If you breed her to an anery, you would expect to get anerys 100% het for amel. Again, depending on unknown hets, you could get something else, the most likely thing being snows because the anery is het amel.

I think your 2 anery-like snakes are both either anery or charcoal (also known as anery B). They look too dark to be ghosts. Supposedly the best way to tell the difference between anery and charcoal is that charcoal has darker, almost black eyes. Not sure if your big guy's eyes are dark enough to qualify. I'm pretty sure the little one must be anery, since its eyes are pretty light. Charcoals tend to have less yellow than anerys, but that is not a sure thing.

Blue Apple Paste has changed his user name on this forum and is now Blue Apple Herps. He still gives excellent advice about corns. :)

Hope that was everything.

That is one YELLOW snow!! She's absolutely amazing! The only other snows I've seen that had that much yellow have been caramel snows; i.e. homozygous for amel, anery, and caramel.

It's said that anery masks caramel, but in a lot of caramel snows they tend to have a lot more yellow than your average snow. I'd try to test her against something that has caramel in it just to see if that's the cause of the yellow. Though I suppose she could just be a fluke, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager that she was homozygous caramel.

As for your two other snakes, Casey hit the nail on the head. They're both anerys and not ghosts. The eyes are also too light to be charcoal on either one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kc261

OK, let's see if I can manage to remember everything I wanted to say. :P

You said she's a garbage disposal. Just in case you don't know, corns can get obese, so be sure not to overfeed her.

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Oh, I know. :) The person we got her from fed her live rats since that's what he had on hand (Being that he mostly had large snakes) but we switched her back to one f/t mouse a week. For a garbage disposal I have my big ball python. :lol: I don't end up with refused meals often though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blue Apple Herps

That is one YELLOW snow!! She's absolutely amazing! The only other snows I've seen that had that much yellow have been caramel snows; i.e. homozygous for amel, anery, and caramel.

It's said that anery masks caramel, but in a lot of caramel snows they tend to have a lot more yellow than your average snow. I'd try to test her against something that has caramel in it just to see if that's the cause of the yellow. Though I suppose she could just be a fluke, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager that she was homozygous caramel.

As for your two other snakes, Casey hit the nail on the head. They're both anerys and not ghosts. The eyes are also too light to be charcoal on either one.

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It's funny, the guy had been trying to find a new home for her for a bit and no one was really interested in her. :P I don't think corns are as popular where I am compared to the pythons.

I am a pretty big fan of caramels... Might try to pick one up this summer for the future. :P I'm just kind of clueless as to which combination makes what in corns. Is there any good reference websites out there?

Yep, I figured they were anerys but never hurts to ask. I got curious when I noticed the eye differences and the color difference (and the fact that one has the yellow, and the other doesn't.) but I figure it's all just normal variation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nevadamoon

I'm just kind of clueless as to which combination makes what in corns. Is there any good reference websites out there?

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Here you go: http://cornguide.com/

It's worth every penny if you really want to have a good reference for all of the genes/morphs and what makes what.

This is a pic of my yellow snow, although her exact genetics are unknown as well. She looks about what I'm used to being refered to as a yellow snow. Yours definately has more yellow than my girl. I'd for sure test her against a caramel when you can(or better yet a butter).

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g6...itout/ysg2.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blue Apple Herps

Here you go: http://cornguide.com/

It's worth every penny if you really want to have a good reference for all of the genes/morphs and what makes what.

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I've totally looked at that book before. The corn snake lady at my local reptile expo always has it on her. Definitely need to order my own.

chromeitout-
How old is your girl? I wonder if mine is just more yellow because of age. She's definitely a few shades darker/more yellow then that.


Okay, one more, I promise. (mostly because it's the last of my corns. :P Hey, it's not my fault I got them from someone who was getting out of snakes, and didn't really know what they were. >.>)

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/24be8346.jpg
This was Amelia in September. I figure she is an amel, but I'm not sure if there's a better name for it or if she could carry some genes that just aren't obvious to me. I hadn't really planned on breeding her, but I'm curious.

Since then she's gotten darker, mostly on the red areas. She's a bit over 3', not sure on age. Excuse the -fabulous- quality of the pictures, she loves being held and pretty much explores all over and hates being in one spot.

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/2d4596a6.jpg
Her belly has parts where it's white with a really nice distinct checkerboard, then it changes to this.

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/49c7bffd.jpg

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/af91b297.jpg

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/a1a1e00f.jpg

http://i876.photobucket.com/albums/a...s/77525958.jpg
Up by her head/neck.

Sorry for being annoying. :bow:

Definitely NOT amelanistic.

She looks normal-ish, but with very minimal black borders around her saddles, which might mean she is hypo. Not sure if hypos can have that much black on their belly checkers or not.

The markings on the saddles are not really black though, at least, not yet. (The squares on her belly are black, though, so I guess that'd rule out amel anyway. :P) I always thought normals had more of a yellow-y orange as a base and then thick black borders around the saddles. As she's gotten older the borders on the saddles have been darkening, but she's never had distinctively lined saddles.

Normals have a WIDE variation in color and look to them. Yours is just a normal. It is quite possible she is carrying hets though. Amel, anery, and hypo are all fairly common in the gene pool.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nevadamoon

chromeitout-
How old is your girl? I wonder if mine is just more yellow because of age. She's definitely a few shades darker/more yellow then that.

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My girl is an 06.
Don't rule out hypo just yet on the one you just posted. These are pics of my deceased "hypo" male. Well he's supposed to be hypo, and I do have some hatchlings from him to prove it next year. Check out his belly.

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g6...rns/Blaze2.jpg

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g6...rns/Blaze8.jpg

Nevada moon.

What you have there are a snow, possibly carrying another gene, an anery, and a hypo (definately not an amel.)

My advice to you would be to try breeding your snow to a butter and see what you get.