Ever seen a Pastel like this??

Back story.. I have an 03' CH female I believe to be a dark morph. Im pretty sure I know what she is if that is the case. Last yr she was paired to a pastel, gave me all pastels, but one was very different. This one girl looks nothing like any pastel I have ever seen. She looks like a dark orange and black pastel. Her belly is as clean and white as any pastel though. If my hunch is correct, this little girl is a double co-dom for pastel and what I believe her mother to be. Problem is, I didnt pair her mother with the right male in order to prove her out yet. Oh well, there is always next year. Check out these pics. No camera tricks. Taken with my Fugi finepix S1500 superzoom digital camera. Daylight bulb for light. No flash. White background VS black background. I did crop the edges and balance the white but I did nothing to change the color or shades.. Shes pretty cool :P "Bella" is 9 months old and 550 grams now...

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...s/DSCF1119.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...s/DSCF1116.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...s/DSCF1121.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...s/DSCF1125.jpg

~And so you can see the incredible difference. This is her father. An average blondish looking pastel~

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...s/DSCF1126.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...s/DSCF1131.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...s/DSCF1134.jpg

Pretty odd huh.. Oh and she just shed today and I took these pictures about 15 minutes ago.

I don't neccessarily think it's double co-dom maybe just a good pastel produced froma not-so-great one?

WIth you saying you think the female is one of the 'dark morphs' all I can say is that doesn't look like the granite pastels we've produced here, nor does it look like chocolate pastel or sable pastel.


Maybe stop being so secretive and get pics of mum up ;)

Lovely pastel you've produced there, and finger crossed she does prove to be double co-dom down the line :)

I have no idea as genetics still boggle my mind......sorrry!

But I did want to tell you she is beautiful. I LOVE her eyes...you captured them so will in those pictures.

She looks like a normal young pastel to me, while Dad looks like an older browned out pastel. :confused:

My pastel looks some-what like that. The colours are pretty much the same, and the pattern isn't all too different.

Looks like a nice example of a normal pastel to me.

It looks like an average quality Pastel to me, much like my own. It is hard to capture the true color in a photo though.

Let's see mom.

What is it that you think mom is?

The offspring pictured looks like any normal average quality pastel. Dad looks like a very browned out pastel. Post pictures of mom.

Looks within the range of normal pastel to me. It would help a lot if you would post pics of mom and/or tell us what morph you think mom is. I can't think of any "dark morph" combo that looks so much like a regular pastel.

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Originally Posted by mason

I don't neccessarily think it's double co-dom maybe just a good pastel produced froma not-so-great one?

WIth you saying you think the female is one of the 'dark morphs' all I can say is that doesn't look like the granite pastels we've produced here, nor does it look like chocolate pastel or sable pastel.


Maybe stop being so secretive and get pics of mum up ;)

Lovely pastel you've produced there, and finger crossed she does prove to be double co-dom down the line :)

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I have pics of mom in my gallery. She looks like an unusual normal. Ive had her since she was a hatchling and ever since she was a baby I have always wondered about her. She is still obviously part of my dinker project so I cant say anything for certain until I prove one way or another but I think she may be a specter.

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

What is it that you think mom is?

The offspring pictured looks like any normal average quality pastel. Dad looks like a very browned out pastel. Post pictures of mom.

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True but that pastel male is a very average/low quality pastel. The other babies in that clutch looked like much higher quality pastels than him. The one I still have acess to because it went to a friend is still very yellow. Even when they hatched there was a huge difference between this female and the others. They all looked like bright yellow pastels but this one started out pink and black and then turned orange. She will actually brown out more than the others. She is already showing it. Plus the oranges are more likely to brown out. Which is why I believe that if the mother is something else, this pastel may be a combo. BUT I have to wait until next year to figure it out.

Another one of the 8 month old female..
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...sPics018-7.jpg

Another one of dad..

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...sPics019-6.jpg

Mom..
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...sPics020-2.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...sPics009-3.jpg

~~And the only fairly recent pics I have sent via phone from the friend who has one of the males from the same clutch. Crappy phone pic..
http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...1265445985.jpg

http://i99.photobucket.com/albums/l2...1265446099.jpg

Some pastels keep there color better than others I have a Gravid female pastel that looks as good as that one, I think age or even the line of pastel also has somethng to do with it.

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Originally Posted by The Rev

Some pastels keep there color better than others I have a Gravid female pastel that looks as good as that one, I think age or even the line of pastel also has somethng to do with it.

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True, but what leads me to think there may be something going is just how different this female looked the start. There were 5 pastels. I lost 2 due to an incubator issue. Those 2 went full term and died in the egg. I made a point to take them out after cutting the eggs to be sure they were all pastels. Every single one looke exactly like you would expect any pastel to look at hatching. The remaining 3 then went through all the color stages of hatchlings, except that one female. All the others had the flames, blushing, star ahaped markings etc etc.. But that one female inherited the soled black lines of the mother. No blushing and that oddly dark color.

When the mother was a baby I picked her from a tub of about 30 CH babies. She stood out like a sore thumb. That neck stripe went more than halfway down her body as a baby. Her color was very different. The neck stripe, the solid black bands on her sides, the random burgandy spots, the clear belly, the head circle, are all possible traits of a specter.

Keep in mind I keep saying its possible. I know I need to prove it out if she is anything different, but all these years I have had a hunch about her. What would really be nice is IF she is a morph and IF that pastel female is double co-dom for it, the next couple years could be very interesting.

And yes it is very hard to capture the color even with daylights and a decent camera. I go to shows just to look at pastels of all ages and mine has looked different in every stage so far. Im just bewildered and cant wait to figure out if she is just a dark orange pastel or a combo. I ask my friend how the male is looking and he always tells me he is still yellow as can be. None of them even inherited the creamy color of the father and I have had him since he was about 8 months old too. It had to come from somewhere and Im hoping it came from the mother.

I did make the mistake of not pairing the mother with a YB this year. Why, I dont know. But next year I will. Only time will tell but they just look unique in my eyes. I cant wait til next year on this one.

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Originally Posted by sho220

She looks like a normal young pastel to me, while Dad looks like an older browned out pastel. :confused:

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thats what I thought as well...my one male looks a lot like that in terms of color, he's an 09 at 820grams.

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/...n/101_0488.jpg

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/...n/101_0489.jpg

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/...n/101_0490.jpg

http://i1022.photobucket.com/albums/...n/101_0493.jpg

sorry for the horrible pictures...I wish I had a nice camera like all you guys. Nothing done to any of them in terms of altering. Kodak 10.2 mega pixil m107is

hes in shed right now, pink belly stage so hes realllly dull. but still doesn't look too much different then what you have pictured.

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

True, but what leads me to think there may be something going is just how different this female looked the start. There were 5 pastels. I lost 2 due to an incubator issue. Those 2 went full term and died in the egg. I made a point to take them out after cutting the eggs to be sure they were all pastels. Every single one looke exactly like you would expect any pastel to look at hatching. The remaining 3 then went through all the color stages of hatchlings, except that one female. All the others had the flames, blushing, star ahaped markings etc etc.. But that one female inherited the soled black lines of the mother. No blushing and that oddly dark color.

When the mother was a baby I picked her from a tub of about 30 CH babies. She stood out like a sore thumb. That neck stripe went more than halfway down her body as a baby. Her color was very different. The neck stripe, the solid black bands on her sides, the random burgandy spots, the clear belly, the head circle, are all possible traits of a specter.

Keep in mind I keep saying its possible. I know I need to prove it out if she is anything different, but all these years I have had a hunch about her. What would really be nice is IF she is a morph and IF that pastel female is double co-dom for it, the next couple years could be very interesting.

And yes it is very hard to capture the color even with daylights and a decent camera. I go to shows just to look at pastels of all ages and mine has looked different in every stage so far. Im just bewildered and cant wait to figure out if she is just a dark orange pastel or a combo. I ask my friend how the male is looking and he always tells me he is still yellow as can be. None of them even inherited the creamy color of the father and I have had him since he was about 8 months old too. It had to come from somewhere and Im hoping it came from the mother.

I did make the mistake of not pairing the mother with a YB this year. Why, I dont know. But next year I will. Only time will tell but they just look unique in my eyes. I cant wait til next year on this one.

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Mom might well have something going on, I personally wouldn't think that pastel is doulble gened though, it looks like a very middle of the road, normal pastel.

Also Specter is not a dark morph, and i'd expect a specter pastel to look a little more obvious than that given that all the specter crosses i've seen so far are obvious (super stripe and a few other Haas has produced like the specter x spider etc)

Obviously you'll have to keep her back and best of luck with that.Please understand i'm not trying to be down, but the question you asked was do we think there is anyhting special about that pastel, and it certainly doesn't look like it to me.

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Originally Posted by mason

Mom might well have something going on, I personally wouldn't think that pastel is doulble gened though, it looks like a very middle of the road, normal pastel.

Also Specter is not a dark morph, and i'd expect a specter pastel to look a little more obvious than that given that all the specter crosses i've seen so far are obvious (super stripe and a few other Haas has produced like the specter x spider etc)

Obviously you'll have to keep her back and best of luck with that.Please understand i'm not trying to be down, but the question you asked was do we think there is anyhting special about that pastel, and it certainly doesn't look like it to me.

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Understandable.. Im going on the fact that she look like a completely different snake from the moment she hatched. Her color changes have been so drastic that I just had to hold her back. Im waiting to see what her color does. The mother went through a pretty noticable color change at some point and Im wondering if this pastel will too. The pastel hatched pink and black. The mother as a baby had pinkish orange along her sides which, as you can see from the pictures, turned yellow. Thats a little backwards in the snake color world. I still want to dink around with her (the baby) because of her pattern. If shes not a combo in the end, it would still be interesting to see if she passes on that pattern. Maybe putting her with a banded or a woma. Banded or reduced pattern pastels? If the orange along her sides, below the area that will brown out, turns yellow then I will be wondering even more.

The mother was put to a lesser/russo BEL and a woma. I know the BEL took for sure. I should only get those three snakes from this clutch so I'll be looking for any variences in those morphs that hatch. Anything odd comes of it Im sure I'll be posting pics and asking for opinions again. If that big female does happen to be a morph there is only 2 things I think she could be. Either a specter or a russo het. No BEL's in this clucth will rule out one. Then I need a YB breeding to rule out or prove the other. Its actually frustrating LOL

Looks like an average Pastel to me!:confused:

I dont see anything but normal pastel in her.....

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

The mother was put to a lesser/russo BEL and a woma. I know the BEL took for sure. I should only get those three snakes from this clutch so I'll be looking for any variences in those morphs that hatch. Anything odd comes of it Im sure I'll be posting pics and asking for opinions again. If that big female does happen to be a morph there is only 2 things I think she could be. Either a specter or a russo het. No BEL's in this clucth will rule out one. Then I need a YB breeding to rule out or prove the other. Its actually frustrating LOL

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If you have ever seen a het russo, they are far from a dark morph, and your female looks nothing like it. And as far as a specter goes, only one way to tell.... breed it to a YB, but I can say I am 99.999999999999999% sure she is nothing more than a dark normal.

Good luck, but if you prove her out as anything but normal I will be the first to say I was wrong. She is normal until proven otherwise. :gj:

Whatever she is , she is gorgeous :)