Spider wobble in full effect

Took a video of my spider doing his thing yesterday. I'm surprised he struck so accurately, usually I have to assist him.


YouTube - Spider ball python - crazy wobble when feeding

Yep feeding really seems to bring it out for whatever reason!

Thats creepy!

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

Thats creepy!

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It can be worse than that.. that's a pretty middle of the road case there. I've seen them wobble like that just moving around.

No kidding? I knew they wobbled, just never saw a video of it before.

Is the wobble passed on with Spider combos as well?

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Originally Posted by Freakie_frog

It can be worse than that.. that's a pretty middle of the road case there. I've seen them wobble like that just moving around.

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Originally Posted by 2kdime

N kidding? I knew they wobbled, just never saw a video of it before.

Is the wobble passed on with Spider combos as well?

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Yep if it has spider in it..it wobbles

That's interesting actually. My spider does more of a corkscrewing act when he is exploring his tub but I'd never actually seen that kind of wobble. My spider does nothing at all like that. He may go topsy turvy and upside down but he's always smooth. And when its feeding time, he's all business, no corkscrewing.

Thanks for sharing.

That is just a spider thang...Ya still gotta love'em :D
Some have it more than others, mine doesn't do it nearly that bad. He usually misses the first time when I feed him, but he won't the second time..LOL

mine is pretty much clear of all wobbles. The worst he does is a slight corkscrew when you hold him as he moves around your arm. But he vibrates when you feed him.

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Originally Posted by Kryptonian

mine is pretty much clear of all wobbles. The worst he does is a slight corkscrew when you hold him as he moves around your arm. But he vibrates when you feed him.

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That's not pretty much clear of all wobbles...that's pretty standard of a wobbler

and thats the reason I will never own a spider or spider morph, as much as I think they are gorgeous, I cant justify perpetuating a morph with such an awful handicap.

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Originally Posted by starrlamia

and thats the reason I will never own a spider or spider morph, as much as I think they are gorgeous, I cant justify perpetuating a morph with such an awful handicap.

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That's cool....More for me

After seeing that, I have to say my spiders are pretty low on the wobble scale. My adult female basically just head bobs a bit when food is introduced. If there is no food around, she is as normal as any normal I have. The babies she has produced are pretty much the same as her. They act pretty normal and have a bit of a head bob when food is introduced. Other than that, when crawling around in the tubs, on the floor, or when being handled, they act pretty normal.

I would say if there is a scale of wobblyness:) say 1-5, one being VERY slight to 5 being tied in a knot, that mine are 1's pretty easy. I have to thank EBN for being upfront and honest. I asked them for a non wobbler, and I feel that is what they sent me! It never hurts to ask...

I sold my normal spiders, and kept the crosses produced in 08. I have no problem selling the spiders I have produced. I also have a Cinnabee from Nutnbutbalz, and she has exhibited NO wobble signs as of yet.

SO, for those opposed to keeping spiders, find a person you trust to send you a low wobbler, and I think you will be happy with your spider!

Worst one i seen yet, all my spiders i hatched or have dont do it while feeding just a mild shake if that.

That really is so sad. My spiders dont do that, hope it stays that way

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Originally Posted by starrlamia

and thats the reason I will never own a spider or spider morph, as much as I think they are gorgeous, I cant justify perpetuating a morph with such an awful handicap.

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I only have one and have bred for two more, I've never seen anything close to that. To me thats a real bad wobble you can't judge them all on that video.;)

I had a little baby spider that had NO wobble no shake no vibe no screw no nothing. Now shes sold now so as maturity hits that might change, but there are at least some out there with NO sign at all

I guess its just me but that is the reason I will never have a Spider in my collection!:confused:

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Originally Posted by FrostFell

I had a little baby spider that had NO wobble no shake no vibe no screw no nothing. Now shes sold now so as maturity hits that might change, but there are at least some out there with NO sign at all

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We've covered this in other thread's it's simply not true..

i got one to but not that bad..o well thay where to inbred when thay first where found and bred IC. What i was told?

Inbreeding had nothing to do with the wobble. It is a Dom animal, no inbreeding was needed, there is no super, so while some Spider x Spider breedings might have been done, I doubt that many were done, and I am possitive it had nothing to do with the wobble. Does the original spider wobble? If so, and I am sure it does, inbreeding could have made it a bit worse, but would not have caused it. Again, I personally do not think inbreeding had anything to do with the wobble, or making it worse.

Dave

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Originally Posted by Emilio

I only have one and have bred for two more, I've never seen anything close to that. To me thats a real bad wobble you can't judge them all on that video.;)

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yea my 09 female has not the slightest bit of a wobble-not even when feeding shes completely clear of wobbles. cant wait to see how her offspring come out this summer if all falls through!

So i'm guessing the wobble was passed down from one of the first spider morphs? personally i wouldnt continue breeding a morph line with something like that. I love the look of spiders don't get me wrong, it's just sad in my opinion to watch that and so i wouldnt want to intentionally produce more snakes with the wobble. Some scientists should do some studies on what it is and why it gets triggered more during feeding time.

Wow, that looks crazy! My girl has a little bit of a feeding thing too though

YouTube - Ivy striking and showing some wobble

Brittany, yours does about the same thing mine do. A little head bob.

Dave

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Originally Posted by EmberBall

Inbreeding had nothing to do with the wobble. It is a Dom animal, no inbreeding was needed, there is no super, so while some Spider x Spider breedings might have been done, I doubt that many were done, and I am possitive it had nothing to do with the wobble. Does the original spider wobble? If so, and I am sure it does, inbreeding could have made it a bit worse, but would not have caused it. Again, I personally do not think inbreeding had anything to do with the wobble, or making it worse.

Dave

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Yes, Kevin has stated that the original spider (there was only one spider imported) also wobbles. He has also stated that all spiders wobble. I agree with you that it has nothing to do with inbreeding - spiders are one of the most OUT bred morphs.

How do you assist him?

if it was a slight wobble in which it had no ill effects on the animal, I can almost understand that, but any animal IMO who cannot eat on its own because its so handicapped from the wobble should not be bred, and perhaps should have been culled. As much as it is a pretty morph I highly believe in breeding animals who are healthy and strong, which a bad wobble doesnt show.

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Originally Posted by shaunb79

I guess its just me but that is the reason I will never have a Spider in my collection!:confused:

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It's not just you. I would not say I will "never" have one but when I see stuff like that it seems pretty clear to me that something neurological is JUST NOT RIGHT!!! It's spooky

Wow thats the first time i have actually seen the wobble as i dont own any spiders. Its more dramatic then i thought.

Lovely spider though , lots of white just how i like them

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Originally Posted by starrlamia

if it was a slight wobble in which it had no ill effects on the animal, I can almost understand that, but any animal IMO who cannot eat on its own because its so handicapped from the wobble should not be bred, and perhaps should have been culled. As much as it is a pretty morph I highly believe in breeding animals who are healthy and strong, which a bad wobble doesnt show.

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Seems pretty apparent to me that the animal in the first video, even with the exaggerated wobble, was still capable of striking and coiling its prey. It moves in jerky uncoordinated movements, but it can still lead a normal life. No reason to cull them off, especially since these "handicaps" don't surface until they reach a more mature state.

Also the spider shows the signs of the wobble, which is inherently a part of its genetic makeup, but I am 100% positive that other morphs out there have other "handicaps" that aren't so apparent. They could simply be internal deviations, or lack accurate vision, or the thermal pits could be skewed. We honestly do not know.

If and when you go to breed you simply need to understand that these are morphs, which in short form mean that they are merely mutations. With every mutation there are other factors that change other than just color. Don't crucify one morph for a genetic "fault" when one of your personal animals could have something far worse internally you do not know about, because the animal cannot tell you it can't see or smell properly.

One of my normal female's escaped her enclosure about 6 months ago and was missing for about 2 months. We finally found her roaming around outside! But anyways the reason why i mention this is because when we found her she was obviously very cold and dehydrated (but she had a full stomach haha) but more importantly she was wobbling her head a lot just like the spiders do! I was really worried and didn't know how well she'd recover but after a few months it slowy got better and better and now she doesnt really show any sign of it. I just thought i'd mention it because it looked a lot like the spider wobble so perhaps the first spider went through some kind of situation like this, causing him to have a head wobble. who knows...just my random guess

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Originally Posted by SawyerBalls

One of my normal female's escaped her enclosure about 6 months ago and was missing for about 2 months. We finally found her roaming around outside! But anyways the reason why i mention this is because when we found her she was obviously very cold and dehydrated (but she had a full stomach haha) but more importantly she was wobbling her head a lot just like the spiders do! I was really worried and didn't know how well she'd recover but after a few months it slowy got better and better and now she doesnt really show any sign of it. I just thought i'd mention it because it looked a lot like the spider wobble so perhaps the first spider went through some kind of situation like this, causing him to have a head wobble. who knows...just my random guess

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Your female wobbled because of possible dehydration and the cold affects the muscles and their ability to move fluidly. Nothing even close to the spider's neurological issues.

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Originally Posted by starrlamia

if it was a slight wobble in which it had no ill effects on the animal, I can almost understand that, but any animal IMO who cannot eat on its own because its so handicapped from the wobble should not be bred, and perhaps should have been culled. As much as it is a pretty morph I highly believe in breeding animals who are healthy and strong, which a bad wobble doesnt show.

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I have not even seen heavy wobblers not be able to eat on their own. When I first got into ball pythons, I wasn't even into spiders, and I didn't know about the wobble. I've since come to love them so much, I have four - 2 males and 2 females.

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Originally Posted by Turbo Serpent

Your female wobbled because of possible dehydration and the cold affects the muscles and their ability to move fluidly. Nothing even close to the spider's neurological issues.

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Even after a month of being in a 91ish degree environment she still was wobbling around. I'm sure it was mostly from the outside environment (even though i live in san diego, which isnt too harsh) but i'm just hoping one of our little neighbor girls didnt try wacking her with a stick or something before they called us over. That was my worst fear when i saw her head wobbling around.

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Originally Posted by SawyerBalls

One of my normal female's escaped her enclosure about 6 months ago and was missing for about 2 months. We finally found her roaming around outside! But anyways the reason why i mention this is because when we found her she was obviously very cold and dehydrated (but she had a full stomach haha) but more importantly she was wobbling her head a lot just like the spiders do! I was really worried and didn't know how well she'd recover but after a few months it slowy got better and better and now she doesnt really show any sign of it. I just thought i'd mention it because it looked a lot like the spider wobble so perhaps the first spider went through some kind of situation like this, causing him to have a head wobble. who knows...just my random guess

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If the original spider had gone through something like this that caused his wobble, then the rest of the spiders would not wobble. You can't inherit something that happened to one of your parents. That's like saying if a person has some sort of accident and loses a finger, than all their children, grandchildren, etc. will all have a missing finger.

In the article entitled "Will They Come in out of the Cold? Observations of Large Constrictors in Cool and Cold Conditions," David Barker talks about something called Cold Shock Syndrome or CSS. I would guess this is what is affecting your snake.

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When warmed to temperatures where activity is possible, snakes suffering CSS will not be able to move in a coordinated manner. They may exhibit what appear to be violent seizures if disturbed or handled. Snakes with this condition may die within 48 hours of being warmed; if they survive past that period of time, they likely will recover, but full recovery to normal coordinated movement can take more than a year.

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Here is a link to the article:
http://www.usark.org/uploads/ComeOutOfCold_BCHS.pdf

Wow I guess I am lucky, I own two spider females, both have slight wobble, but it is so little that if you are not looking for it you dont notice, and they only show wobble like discussed in this post @ suppertime....

I am however glad that the you take such good care of the animal in the vid... alot of people would have given up on an animal that needed the assist on a regular basis

Yeah thanks, I was thinking about that too. Except my scenario was if a legless soldier(Lt. Dan---Forest Gump) came back from war and had a bunch of babies they all wouldn't be legless and captians of shrimp boats....duhh. Thanks for the CSS article, i'm just glad mine didn't die or continue to have the wobble

my spider isn't super enthusiastic about striking/constricting, but he has VERY little wobble. He hasn't missed a meal yet, though (knock on wood)!

For all the people who have spiders that show hardly any signs of wobbling, if you have produced offspring from them, how was the offsprings wobble? Is it very slight like the parents or do they all have an equal chance of being bad wobblers?

This is a video I just posted. Seems this is a good place to link it.
"This is my "wobble-less" spider girl. I have never seen her wobble, but after close observation, ... she does have problems. Take this video for example. Every snake has a bad day, especially young snakes- but this is an adult. This is not the first time this has happened to her. (Though I don't recall her ever giving up before) She tries to eat her rat from the wrong end, can't seem to find the head at all, then seems to lose it altogether. After this video she gave up and would not even strike at a fresh meal. This problem has also been observed in my bumblebees (pastel spider).
I know these problems could be bred out if breeders would take an interest in breeding only the best, strongest and healthiest snakes and STOP breeding the deformed and retarded just to make a quick buck...."

YouTube - The Bambi Project

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Originally Posted by Payton MacDonald

How do you assist him?

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If he keeps missing the rat I'll hold it against his neck so he feels it and he'll coil around it with no bite.

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Originally Posted by bad-one

Wow, that looks crazy! My girl has a little bit of a feeding thing too though

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that is one gorgeous spider!

i would nick name him stevie wonder :P

I've had my normal eat a couple rats backwards or try, before letting it go and searching out the head.

Considering that the orginal male had the wobble, I don't see how it could be bred out since all spiders descended from him. Wobbles can be just a simple head tilt, or not righting itself immediately when placed on it's back to full on corkscrews.

I am a firm believe that it is always there, no matter how subtle.

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Originally Posted by DesignerBP

that is one gorgeous spider!

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Thanks! Your guy is great looking too, I love high whites :D

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Originally Posted by starrlamia

if it was a slight wobble in which it had no ill effects on the animal, I can almost understand that, but any animal IMO who cannot eat on its own because its so handicapped from the wobble should not be bred, and perhaps should have been culled. As much as it is a pretty morph I highly believe in breeding animals who are healthy and strong, which a bad wobble doesnt show.

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He can definitely eat on his own. Captive snakes depend on the owner to offer them food in the first place; helping it get a good coil around its food is not much less extreme of a dependence imo.

If you spent $25K on a Spider back in the day, and found out it had this issue once you received your snake, would you go blabbing that Spiders have issues? Of course not...you would probably keep quiet until you made some money back on your investment.

Dave

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Originally Posted by Delilah

This is a video I just posted. Seems this is a good place to link it.
"This is my "wobble-less" spider girl. I have never seen her wobble, but after close observation, ... she does have problems. Take this video for example. Every snake has a bad day, especially young snakes- but this is an adult. This is not the first time this has happened to her. (Though I don't recall her ever giving up before) She tries to eat her rat from the wrong end, can't seem to find the head at all, then seems to lose it altogether. After this video she gave up and would not even strike at a fresh meal. This problem has also been observed in my bumblebees (pastel spider).
I know these problems could be bred out if breeders would take an interest in breeding only the best, strongest and healthiest snakes and STOP breeding the deformed and retarded just to make a quick buck...."

YouTube - The Bambi Project

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You really don't see her wobble? She's wobbling as soon as she releases the ASF. The twisting of her body before she released it is also very typical of the spider wobble/spin behavior as well. In some spiders it can be so subtle, that unless you know what you're looking for (or want to convince yourself that yours doesn't wobble) you won't see it.

I think that you're going to be very disappointed if you truly believe that the wobble can be bred out of the spider. Even the most "stable" spider can throw trainwreck babies. It's not about breeders out to make a quick buck - especially with the price of spiders today, there are many other morphs that can be worked with to "make a buck" with. Most people who keep and breed spiders do so because they love morph, even with its quirks.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

You really don't see her wobble? She's wobbling as soon as she releases the ASF. The twisting of her body before she released it is also very typical of the spider wobble/spin behavior as well.

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I noticed that too, I thought maybe it was just me at first.