Killing feeders is sad!

I cant believe that i almost cried when i had to kill the little rat that one of my snakes refused. it was only the second live feeding but the first got eaten. It was still kicking for a whole minute before it was still. :tears::tears:
It took me totally by surprise.

F/T is an alternative.

I know, its what I normally do. I just had a different situation.

I used to breed pet quality rats, now I just own a few as pets. They really are intelligent little creatures. I've never been able to feed live, unless all else fails and the snake refuses to eat f/t. Which I've never owned a snake that refused to convert.

I hope you froze it after dispatching it, quite sad if you let it's life go to waste. Next time, you might want to consider returning it to the pet store.

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Originally Posted by jjsnakedude

I cant believe that i almost cried when i had to kill the little rat that one of my snakes refused. it was only the second live feeding but the first got eaten. It was still kicking for a whole minute before it was still. :tears::tears:
It took me totally by surprise.

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Not one of the most glorious aspects of snake keeping. You will fortunately get a little more numb to it after a while.

No different than killing a pig or chicken then having it sit on the dining room table that evening. Like someone said, you'll get used to it.

As a snake owner, it was bound to happen.

Take Care!
Jim Smith

how did you kill it? alot of ppl say this co2 chamber is the best way, but i work with all kinds of toxic gas at my work and co2 actually just displaces the oxygen. which means it doesnt make them unconcious, they are fully aware that they are sufficating to death. i dont believe this is a humane way to kill. i doubt u gassed it out just thought id add my $.02 lol

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Originally Posted by ls1goat04

how did you kill it? alot of ppl say this co2 chamber is the best way, but i work with all kinds of toxic gas at my work and co2 actually just displaces the oxygen. which means it doesnt make them unconcious, they are fully aware that they are sufficating to death. i dont believe this is a humane way to kill. i doubt u gassed it out just thought id add my $.02 lol

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I don't think working with toxic gases at work makes you more qualified than a panel of veterinarians that has determined that killing small mammals with CO2 is humane when done properly. The trick is to slowly raise the CO2 levels, which does make them unconscious. If the CO2 levels are raised too quickly, it is uncomfortable for them.

Just feed it live then.Snakes do not have someone waking the rats in wild.So why are you killing something your snake is born to kill????
Just cut the rats teeth off if you want.

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Originally Posted by TankMasterOG

Just feed it live then.Snakes do not have someone waking the rats in wild.So why are you killing something your snake is born to kill????
Just cut the rats teeth off if you want.

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Many keepers prefer to feed frozen/thawed or pre-killed for the safety of their snake. Yes, a snake is capable of killing a rodent but on occasion they can get bitten which can get infected or scare the snake into not wanting to eat. It is simply a preference of the keeper on whether or not to feed live. I personally have no problem with those that feed live and occasionally feed live myself.

BUT, you should NEVER EVER, cut the teeth off a live rat. That is cruel and animal abuse. Whether these animals are meant as food for your snakes or not, all animals should be treated with respect and kept free from unnecessary pain. Cutting the teeth off a rat is not necessary. Even if you meant this as a joke, I am not laughing and what you are proposing is animal abuse.

me honestly i feed f/t cause its easier and i dont have to deal with feeding live but i have one that refuses to switch buts shes only feeding on rat pups but normally what i do is drop it in and walk away. I own rats a pets and i hate feeding live but honestly i know that feeding live or having to kill a rat/mouse is part of the game i feel bad about doing it but if it doesn't get done your snake suffers.

Everyone has different comfort levels, and if killing live animals bothers you, then maybe f/t would be a better alternative.
Keep in mind that it is simply a circle of life. We love our snakes, but they can't survive if other lives arn't sacrificed for them. Dead is dead, whether the snake did it or you did. Doing the killing is harder on yourself, but probably safer for your snake. As I said, dead is dead, so if it's dead before your snake gets to it, then at least your snake isn't going to get hurt in the process.

i dont remember saying i was qualified for anything. i just know how different gases work. i know id rather be wacked on the head then gassed out. once again my opinion.

info i found on the subject.
In a seminar presented at the US Department of Agriculture on December 16, 2004, Dr. Mohan Raj, Senior Research Fellow in the Farm Animal Division of the School of Clinical Veterinary Science at the University of Bristol in England, described the effects of CO2 on the body. CO2 induces breathlessness – a subjective distress in breathing known as dyspnea. According to Dr. Raj, dyspnea in both birds and mammals “activates brain regions associated with pain and induces an emotional response of panic.”

This is because, while CO2 increases the rate and depth of breathing to expel CO2 from the lungs, breathing actually increases the intake of CO2, and thus the desire to breathe to expel the noxious CO2 gas causes slow, painful suffocation.

In contrast, a gaseous stun/kill system based on the use of the inert gases argon or nitrogen, known as Controlled Atmosphere Stunning, eliminates or greatly reduces the suffering caused by pure CO2. Whereas CO2 induces painful suffocation, gases like argon and nitrogen induce a lack of oxygen, or anoxia, resulting in a painless death, according to Dr. Raj.

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Originally Posted by ls1goat04

i dont remember saying i was qualified for anything. i just know how different gases work. i know id rather be wacked on the head then gassed out. once again my opinion.

info i found on the subject.
In a seminar presented at the US Department of Agriculture on December 16, 2004, Dr. Mohan Raj, Senior Research Fellow in the Farm Animal Division of the School of Clinical Veterinary Science at the University of Bristol in England, described the effects of CO2 on the body. CO2 induces breathlessness – a subjective distress in breathing known as dyspnea. According to Dr. Raj, dyspnea in both birds and mammals “activates brain regions associated with pain and induces an emotional response of panic.”

This is because, while CO2 increases the rate and depth of breathing to expel CO2 from the lungs, breathing actually increases the intake of CO2, and thus the desire to breathe to expel the noxious CO2 gas causes slow, painful suffocation.

In contrast, a gaseous stun/kill system based on the use of the inert gases argon or nitrogen, known as Controlled Atmosphere Stunning, eliminates or greatly reduces the suffering caused by pure CO2. Whereas CO2 induces painful suffocation, gases like argon and nitrogen induce a lack of oxygen, or anoxia, resulting in a painless death, according to Dr. Raj.

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Information is useless without a link to back it up.

http://www.upc-online.org/nr/33005co2.htm

Ask, and ye shall receive.

Jim Smith

Cuting the teeth off a live rat is not doing it any harm. They grow back in about 24 hours. Rats will chew on things to wear their teeth down. i dont do this but i know people that do.I dont think its that bad but the first time i saw them do this i was floored. But it looks painless to the rat just sounds bad.Sorry to upset anyone....

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Originally Posted by TankMasterOG

Cuting the teeth off a live rat is not doing it any harm. They grow back in about 24 hours. Rats will chew on things to wear their teeth down. i dont do this but i know people that do.I dont think its that bad but the first time i saw them do this i was floored. But it looks painless to the rat just sounds bad.Sorry to upset anyone....

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I learn something everyday! But ya I would have the heart to do that :(

Cutting the teeth off a rat enough so that it would not harm a snake if the rat were to bite the snake is excessive. I am fully aware they gnaw on things to keep their teeth in check but actually cutting the teeth off in this manner is excessive, and I'm pretty sure a rat's teeth do not grow back that much in 24hrs. Now this is if you are cutting the teeth down so that it would not harm the snake. Simply trimming the teeth will not keep the rat from harming the snake through biting.

Why go through so much trouble in the first place. Either feed your snake live and let your snake handle his own or feed f/t. Simple.

I hope the Tankmaster was kidding...

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Originally Posted by TankMasterOG

Just feed it live then.Snakes do not have someone waking the rats in wild.So why are you killing something your snake is born to kill????
Just cut the rats teeth off if you want.

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Wow, this totally took me off guard, CUT IT'S TEETH OFF? Are you serious? I mean I know that rats teeth don't feel like humans do but my gosh, I can't imagine the stress and discomfort you would cause a rat trying to do that. If I have something that can bite, I do a fast, cervical dislocation. Very quick. The animal often twitches and this is more than enough to keep the snakes interest in the prey item. Once that cervical dislocation is done the animal knows nothing and feels nothing. I find it the most humane way to dispatch it. While killing animals or having them die is certainly NOT my favorite part of owning snakes it is something that has to be done.

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Originally Posted by ls1goat04

i dont remember saying i was qualified for anything. i just know how different gases work. i know id rather be wacked on the head then gassed out. once again my opinion.

info i found on the subject.
In a seminar presented at the US Department of Agriculture on December 16, 2004, Dr. Mohan Raj, Senior Research Fellow in the Farm Animal Division of the School of Clinical Veterinary Science at the University of Bristol in England, described the effects of CO2 on the body. CO2 induces breathlessness – a subjective distress in breathing known as dyspnea. According to Dr. Raj, dyspnea in both birds and mammals “activates brain regions associated with pain and induces an emotional response of panic.”

This is because, while CO2 increases the rate and depth of breathing to expel CO2 from the lungs, breathing actually increases the intake of CO2, and thus the desire to breathe to expel the noxious CO2 gas causes slow, painful suffocation.

In contrast, a gaseous stun/kill system based on the use of the inert gases argon or nitrogen, known as Controlled Atmosphere Stunning, eliminates or greatly reduces the suffering caused by pure CO2. Whereas CO2 induces painful suffocation, gases like argon and nitrogen induce a lack of oxygen, or anoxia, resulting in a painless death, according to Dr. Raj.

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Very interesting post my friend...

I was thinking about this for a while because last week I did my first c02 gas chamber using dry ice and I didn't have too much fun. I mean, I know the animal is going to die regardless but for some reason watching them go like that is kind of sad, and just kinda hard to watch honestly. I keep telling myself that is just a rodent, but that doesn't work. I have compassion for all animals, so this kind of cancels that way of thinking out and I know that I could have done it in a better way once I saw the results.

I wish there was a nice cheap alternative to c02 gas. I don't know jack about gas, so is it possible and cheap enough to buy argon like you said? I would love to come up with a nice method that doesn't require me playing doctor on a rat and ripping its head off by accidentally lol

I have seen a couple vids on you tube about cervical dislocation. You would have to pull quite hard to take a feeders head off. At some point I'll try to make a vid on it. It really isn't hard.

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Originally Posted by singingtothewheat

I have seen a couple vids on you tube about cervical dislocation. You would have to pull quite hard to take a feeders head off. At some point I'll try to make a vid on it. It really isn't hard.

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I've watched a bunch of videos too, and honestly its totally the best way and I wish I possessed the stomach you do lol I'm a wimp :(

i had to kill a live feeder once it made me feel pretty small.

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Originally Posted by ericson1777

i had to kill a live feeder once it made me feel pretty small.

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Glad to see there are more softee's on here :rolleyes:

Feeling bad about killing a feeder does not make you a softee. It just means you are a compassionate human being. :gj: I never enjoy killing another living being either directly or giving it to my snake as food.

argon/nitrogen isnt overly expensive i think, dont qoute me because my work pays for everything we need, i work in an oil refinery btw. we have every gas and chemical from oxygen bottles to so2 to h2s. 100ppm (parts per million) of hydrogen sulfide can kill a human very quickly. no fun

I ALWAYS feed f/t, but one snake had feeding issues so I had to feed live. I killed it because she wouldnt take it. The easiest way is to rapidly break the neck or spine on a blunt edge.