Please Help ball python I'm new to reptiles

--He is 6 months old. (born 8-09) I've only had him for 2.5 days. His set up looks like this, 12x12x30 it is tall not long. exo terra I got as a display model. I got a large four paws natures heat (710000) heat pad. But at the bare glass the temp is 100+ but if I lay the digital thermometer on top of the substrate I can get temps 85-92 using a rheostat. The cool side is about 74. (This whole setup except heat pad is temporary for a few months)
--But I'm freaked out over the temperature thing. (a side from who's version I read) The store owner said 90. My book says 85. But my biggest concern is this the surface temp of the glass botttom. It's currently covered with about a inch of Fur bark bedding. I don't want to cook him! But I don't want him to freeze to death as a result of my paranoia. The worst part is because I'm freaking out. I keep moving him and it's already feeding day and I doubt he's going to eat.
PLEASE let me know, where should I be measuring the cage temps from?
On top of the substrate? Below the substrate against the glass? Or like the stupid generic directions say "against the top of the lid on the inside"?

I'm sure others will help but the temps should be around 78-82 cool side and 88-92 warm side. Sorry, I'm not sure where you'll need to measure the temps with a glass setup being that i have a rack but i believe is on top of the substrate. Since you had him for 3 days i would give him a week to settle in first then try feeding him. pictures of your setup would help. hope this helps.

You measure the temps from the glass as the snake can move the bedding out of the way and lay right on the glass. That being said, you HAVE to have a rheostat or thermostat to regulate and control the heat manually. It's one of, if not the most, important pieces you have. This is nothing something to be cheap on and think you can get away with not having. I made my own dimmer for all of $7 each which is easy to do. If you are able to follow simple instructions you may want to check out doing them yourself.

http://www.cornsnakes.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93490

That's an example of what I'm talking about.

Ok so now the glass is 90.x and the substrate is about 85 on the hot side.
Should I be ok with that?
Like I said it's been 2 days since I got him. I looked at his belly last night to see if I could see any signs of thermal burn. (It was just white irradicent) but it felt a softer than when I got him. (last fed last tuesday) What should I watch for as signs the temps are ok for the snake (besides the range) and I'm worried, I don't think he has a thermal burn, but what behavior/symptoms would suggest it? He spends about 85-90% of his time in his hide.(not unusual sense I just got him, worried about choosing safe hiding place over correct heat causing a thermal burn from the 2 days.) He soaks for about 15 miniutes or so during the night. He was rubbing his nose at the corner behind his hide at substrate level off and on. (temp issue?) He climbed his cage glass corners (all sides) Was he just being active? Or is it a symptom of stress? (both I'd suppose) He doesn't seem to leave his hide at night unless distrubed. (Should I assume that's normal?)
What is the absolute hottest safe heat for a heating pad's hot spot for a ball python? (I want to avoid burns)
What is the absolute coldest the warm area should be? (85?)
To avoid health problems what is the coldest/warmest the cold side should be? (could cause RI?/death?)
I'm sorry I'm just really worried about his set up, and I don't want to hurt him. I want him around for a long time. Thanks for your patients with me.

Hi,

How are you measuring those temps?

By that I mean is it a digital or analogue (dial ) thermometer?

Can you get us a picture of your enclosure at all?


dr del

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Originally Posted by DLoc

--He is 6 months old. (born 8-09) I've only had him for 2.5 days. His set up looks like this, 12x12x30 it is tall not long. exo terra I got as a display model. I got a large four paws natures heat (710000) heat pad.

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Just so I have the correct picture in my mind. The floor of your tank measures 12 inches X 12 inches and is 30 inches tall. According to the website I just looked at, you UTH should measure about 12 inches X 7.5 inches. Which leaves a strip of 12 inches X 4.5 inches for your cool side. Is that correct?

You are going to have trouble keeping enough heat & humidity in an enclosure that tall. Start by insulating 3 of the sides, and covering most of the top with some layers of aluminum foil if it is a screen top.

If Vypyrz is correct about how much of the cage floor is covered by the UTH, then you really don't have a large enough cool area. It does seem like the snake could get totally off the heat by squishing up against the one side of the enclosure, but this is far from ideal.

You could adjust the rheostat so that the hot spot is 94-95 on the glass. That is the hottest that is safe, but you may need to in that tall enclosure to get the air warmed up at all. I'm hesitant to suggest even that, since you are using a rheostat. If there happens to be a hot day when you aren't home to adjust the rheostat, the temperatures could get too high.

You said this is temporary housing. What are you planning on changing to? Why not change now? If you don't change it now, you will probably spend a lot of time, effort, and money trying to get everything right in this enclosure, only to have to do it over again.

I'm at work but will take pics when I get home. The heating pad is slightly sticking out on the back. (covering just under half the tank) Yes I am using a rheostat now. (1st day was without)

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Originally Posted by DLoc

I'm at work but will take pics when I get home. The heating pad is slightly sticking out on the back. (covering just under half the tank) Yes I am using a rheostat now. (1st day was without)

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I am using a $10 Zoo Med digital thermometer with a single probe. Then I have a just short of worthless thermometer (not tape but still stick on glass) which I'm using to monitor the ambient air temps. (usually about 79) I have placed aluminum foil over half the top to trap humidity and heat. (humitity varies from 60-70.) As for my enclouser if you think of a ten gallon that is square except having slightly more depth to it. 12x12 then it's 30 tall. It also has metric measurements but I can't remember them off the top of my head. Another thing for when I get home.

I'm sure people with more experience can help better than I, but were I you, I'd ditch that glass box in favour of a plastic tub. Much cheaper, easier to keep warm, easier to regulate humidity (where I live the air is so dry it hurts).

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Originally Posted by DLoc

--...His set up looks like this, 12x12x30 it is tall not long. exo terra I got as a display model.

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I just wanted to inform you about the problem I had with the exoterra cages and my BP. I had my guy in a Larger size, but still taller than it was long. He was fine for quite some time, and I managed to keep heat and humidity up just fine. However, a moth or two after I got him he started trying to reach the top, as snakes will. His nose just hit the screen, but he only had a little bit of his lower half supporting him, and fell over quite a bit. i went out and bought a new, lower tank immediately; he was falling over so hard he was literally hurting himself, and in that maybe twelve hour time span after he started doing it and before I got the new tank, he had bruised himself and cut open the top of his head. A little neosporin and a shed or two cleared it right up, and the bruise went down within a day or two. (His tank is in my room, where I've recently been spending a lot of time due to bad migraines, so it really wasn't any more than twelve hours, but he still bruised himself up pretty badly.)
So just be careful with those taller cages :)

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Originally Posted by musicalKeyes

I just wanted to inform you about the problem I had with the exoterra cages and my BP. I had my guy in a Larger size, but still taller than it was long. He was fine for quite some time, and I managed to keep heat and humidity up just fine. However, a moth or two after I got him he started trying to reach the top, as snakes will. His nose just hit the screen, but he only had a little bit of his lower half supporting him, and fell over quite a bit. i went out and bought a new, lower tank immediately; he was falling over so hard he was literally hurting himself, and in that maybe twelve hour time span after he started doing it and before I got the new tank, he had bruised himself and cut open the top of his head. A little neosporin and a shed or two cleared it right up, and the bruise went down within a day or two. (His tank is in my room, where I've recently been spending a lot of time due to bad migraines, so it really wasn't any more than twelve hours, but he still bruised himself up pretty badly.)
So just be careful with those taller cages :)

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Yet another reason I like tubs. Mine are not particularly tall. :)

glass 93.5 substrate 88. I'll upload pics soon. The reason I got the tank is it was on sale 50% off. I guess i should have got the exo terra 3ft box.

Something I'm thinking that might work better until you can get a different enclosure is this. Get a roll of either aluminum foil or wax cooking paper, a roll of aluminum tape, and a piece of fiber board, cardboard, or cork board.

-Remove the screen top, cut a piece of foil or wax paper to about 14" X 14". This will go on the inside of the screen to keep the snake from rubbing on it. Fold the edges around the edges of the screen and tape it to the outside of the screen. You will probably have to cut slits for the screen clips to fit through.
-Cut a piece of whichever type of board to fit over the top of the screen and tape it down. This will help insulate that end.
-Lay the tank on it's side with the hinged doors on top.

By doing this, you tank is now aproximately the same as a 20L tank. It will give you more floor space to provide a better temp gradient. You may have to get either another UTH or one that will cover approx. 1/3 to 1/2 of the floor space. Since you are using a dimmer, I would say monitor the temp of the glass where the UTH is and keep it around 91-92F. If you are using Aspen I would say about one inch thick would be good. As the snake shuffles the substrate or packs it around the temps should be good. If you are using paper towel or newspaper then 2-3 layers would be ok...

sorry i forgot to mention the substrate is repti bark (pure fur) I just noticed it acts as a insulator. If the probe is covered when on the glass it reads about 2 degrees warmer.

Thanks everyone for your help so far. I can't upload photos because I can't find a working cam. I'll try and upload some tomorrow. At least I have the temps in the safe zone for now, let me know if I should make any adjustments now. (glass- Hot= 92 -Cold is 73-76 -Ambient measured 1 inch above is 79-80. Humidity is at 60. I'll be getting a 20 gallon pretty soon. What would be the best/ most reliable UTH and thermostat or rheostat to use? (Assuming he's not thermal burned (been 2 days and no brown or red on his belly.
The tank is actually 12x12x18 (inches). I think he's just really stressed right now. He's been under his hide all day and is still there. (11:30pm where I am right now)
*******UPDATE*******
At 12:00pm I left a F/T hopper in his terrarium, and he ate. Please let me know if my logic is flawed. But I believe that means he is happy, and healthy.
Wouldn't he refuse if he had a thermal burn?

I just want to say thank you to everyone who were so quick to help me out.
It's been a half hour sense he ate. No regurge yet : ) He is climbing to the top of the enclouser by using his hide to boost him up. I'll have to get him a steady branch to explore. I'm going to leave things were they are right now, as he seems to be happy. I did add aluminum foil to half of the top of his cage to keep in some heat and humidity. another quesiton, would it be safer to remove the decorative foam backing? I've heard rumors of balls getting behind them and getting stuck making it impossible to thermoregulate.

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Originally Posted by DLoc

another quesiton, would it be safer to remove the decorative foam backing? I've heard rumors of balls getting behind them and getting stuck making it impossible to thermoregulate.

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If you are talking about that styrofoam scenery that Exo-Terra puts in their tanks, the yes, I would remove it. The first time it gets urine or feces on it you will have to throw it away anyway as it will be impossible to clean and disinfect...

I've switched him to a 20 gallon. The hot spot over the glass was at 85 yesterday. Sometime between 12am and 8am it must have dropped, as of 8am it read 73. Ot was obvious he had dug down to get more heat. So I decided to pick him up to start warming him up and he made a faint little squeak. I'm adjusted up to 85 again right now. He only seems to do it when touched not held or laying in his tank. Is this normal or a sign of RI or stress?
Should I take him to a vet? I don't see any mucus on his tank or around his nose. He occasionally is resting on top of his hide. Sometimes he dips his head into his water dish. Humidity is at 80. Do you think I'm just paranoid or what?
(It does get cold in my home at night. Minnesota +drafty house)

I'm going to switch his coldside hide with his warm side hide as he is spending all his time in the cold side. I'm planning to cover half the top of the tank with cardboard to prevent any drafts that may be affecting it. Then I plan to raise the glass temp over the pad to 88 unless someone has a better suggestion. Thanks for any help.

Ok, so I got a infrared 50 watt bulb on sunday. It appears the temps have stayed constant. Glass over the pad is 89-92. The substrate reads 78-82. (Under the infrared which is over the pad) And I placed a peice of cardboard 3/4 the length of the 20 gallon on top.

I have personally had a ball python get stuck behind the foam backing. Save yourself the trouble of cutting your snake out of it. Take it out and save it inc ase you want to put a different animal in that cage in the future. I have the exact cage and it really isn't all that suitable for a ball python. A crested gecko would do fantastic in that enclosure though :)

what do you guys recommend for insulation? I have a 55 gallon glass tank and I have had trouble maintaining humidity ever since I got it. I tried putting plastic over the top but that doesn't seem to be helping very much. Should the sides of the tank be insulated also?

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Originally Posted by straydog1980

what do you guys recommend for insulation? I have a 55 gallon glass tank and I have had trouble maintaining humidity ever since I got it. I tried putting plastic over the top but that doesn't seem to be helping very much. Should the sides of the tank be insulated also?

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A lamp is the main culprit in reducing humidity. I use aluminum foil tape to cover my screen tops and it works very well.

Insulating the back and sides of the tank with black foam core board will also help.

okay... I'll get some of that core board off amazon... is it better to put that on the inside or the outside of the tank? And with the foil tape, should that go on the top of the screen or the underside? Does it matter?

My tank is 18 inches high by 13 inches wide and 48 inches long. I will cover both "shallow" sides and the back "long" side. Should I cover the top half of the front "long" side also? That will still give me a good 9-10" of viewing space, and if it will provide him with a better environment I'm all for it. What do you think?

You can find foam core board in your local art store. It might be better to go in a store to get it because they usually come in fairly large sheets. Kind of hard to ship.

Foam core goes on the outside. aluminum tape goes on the outside.

you can cover part of the front if you want, its up to you.