Snakes that only eat f/t?

Ok well I'm starting to get worried now. My one normal boy stillll has not taken a meal. Its been since end of may, maybe beginning of june since he ate. Starting to lose some weight. Nothing scary but hes definitely not the same. Here the thing I always feed live though, and always rats, or a live mouse. I never really tried feeding him frozen mice. And i know thats what hes used to, he was actually an adoption. He always took live though, he just stopped for some reason. You think maybe he wants a stinky f/t mouse? And are there snakes that ONLY take f/t?

what are the temps in your tank?

I would assume that yes, there are some snakes that get spooked by live food and will only eat pre-killed or frozen thawed if left in their enclosure.

I have some snakes that will only eat if I dangle the rodent, and others that will only eat if I set it down in their enclosure and leave for a while.


Most of the time though, a snake stops eating because its husbandry is off. There is a good sticky here listing many reasons why a snake will stop eating. You should check it out.

Also, a description of how you have the snake housed, how often you offer food, prey size and snake size and age would be helpful to determine why he is not eating.

I'm not a newb by any means so I got my husbandry right. Recently I moved him back an forth from my g/f's house to my house. It didn't bother him at first but like maybe 2 weeks after he was moved he stopped eating. I got him in a 20 gallon long tank with uth with thermostat. Small heat lamp to bump up ambient temps, and I also taped black background around the sides so he gives him a sense of security and to kind create a "rack" vibe. He seems like he loves the set-up and loves my room. Jasper is kind of shy guy so when people are out, hes not and my room really gets no traffic so it works out nice. I have a piece of driftwood in there too that he comes out during the day sometimes and just sits on it and basks under the light. He's become social and has adapted a routine into his life so I think my setup is good. He's the only snake with a setup like this, my others are in tubs for some reason he didn't like the tub that much it was weird. He was always on the move trying to get out, so I felt bad and put him in a 20lgal long. I think he might have had a bad expierence with a rodent a while ago, or maybe while I was feeding so he gets spooked.

I'm going to get a f/t tomorrow and see. I'm going to feel soooo bad if he takes it and thats all I had to do!! Although, I have tried f.t small rats, but not mice. He was a mouser before I got him so I'm hoping he's just having a change of taste. Thanks for your input everyone.

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Originally Posted by dsmalex97

I'm not a newb by any means so I got my husbandry right. Recently I moved him back an forth from my g/f's house to my house. It didn't bother him at first but like maybe 2 weeks after he was moved he stopped eating. I got him in a 20 gallon long tank with uth with thermostat. Small heat lamp to bump up ambient temps, and I also taped black background around the sides so he gives him a sense of security and to kind create a "rack" vibe. He seems like he loves the set-up and loves my room. Jasper is kind of shy guy so when people are out, hes not and my room really gets no traffic so it works out nice. I have a piece of driftwood in there too that he comes out during the day sometimes and just sits on it and basks under the light. He's become social and has adapted a routine into his life so I think my setup is good. He's the only snake with a setup like this, my others are in tubs for some reason he didn't like the tub that much it was weird. He was always on the move trying to get out, so I felt bad and put him in a 20lgal long. I think he might have had a bad expierence with a rodent a while ago, or maybe while I was feeding so he gets spooked.

I'm going to get a f/t tomorrow and see. I'm going to feel soooo bad if he takes it and thats all I had to do!! Although, I have tried f.t small rats, but not mice. He was a mouser before I got him so I'm hoping he's just having a change of taste. Thanks for your input everyone.

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If he is out during the day, he is stressed. Move him back to a tub.

Every time you introduce the snake to a new enclosure, it will test the boundaries of the enclosure and roam and look for a way out for up to 3 weeks. Putting him into a 20g probably didn't help. Moving him to a smaller enclosure with two tight fitting hides will probably help get him back on a good eating schedule.

If you are handling this snake, stop. Handling them will stress them out. They are not "happy" to come out nor do they "love" being handled. Being handled by a giant monster is stressful to them. Some are much more sensitive than others when it comes to stressful situations. If yours is shy like you said, handling will do more harm than good and sitting out on a piece of wood in the middle of the day means he doesn't feel safe enough to sleep in his hides.

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

If he is out during the day, he is stressed. Move him back to a tub.

Every time you introduce the snake to a new enclosure, it will test the boundaries of the enclosure and roam and look for a way out for up to 3 weeks. Putting him into a 20g probably didn't help. Moving him to a smaller enclosure with two tight fitting hides will probably help get him back on a good eating schedule.

If you are handling this snake, stop. Handling them will stress them out. They are not "happy" to come out nor do they "love" being handled. Being handled by a giant monster is stressful to them. Some are much more sensitive than others when it comes to stressful situations. If yours is shy like you said, handling will do more harm than good and sitting out on a piece of wood in the middle of the day means he doesn't feel safe enough to sleep in his hides.

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I don't believe the tank is the issue just because he was feeding best when in the the tank. I think I left an important detail out. I adopted him when I was living at my house, and ended up moving in with my girlfriends house. She didn't have room because of all her snakes, so I left the tank at my house. I would stop in a few times a week spot cleaning, changing water, and feeding. He was fine for the longest time and I was happy because he was in poor conditions when I got him, and I managed to put weight on him and see him blossom into what he really was supposed to look like. A few months went by(making it september octoberish)and my girlfriend(Kristyn) was able to make some room, so we converted him into a tub snake. At first it didn't seem to make a difference, but after about 2 months he started getting really antsy and he was always on the prowl, always moving and I rarely saw him calm. Still kept his appetite up though throughout all of this.

Here's where I think things went sour....

Unfortunately Kristyn was having a hard time keeping the temps where they need to be through the winter and sometimes they were exposed to some low temps that they really shouldn't have...Nothing lower then 70, which I know is way too low unless you are cooling your snakes for breeding, but thats only in short intervals. I wasn't liking how cold it was and after a while he stopped eating, and only eating sometimes so I decided to bring him back to my house. After bringing him there I also put him back in the tank being that there never seemed to be any issue with it, and is what he's used to. He continued eating normal again up until june, and then stopped. I had him out yesterday because I attempted to force feed him, because he's lost quite a bit of weight. Didn't weigh him because my scale wasn't there, but I KNOW hes skinny now. Hes back to what he was when I got him...But I did notice him wheezing. He didn't just shed so its not stuck shed. I think its RI, because when I was trying to force feed him I did notice a decent build up of saliva in his gums. I didn't notice it as much after I tried force feeding, which by the way was unsuccessful, he was squirming too much and I didn't want to hurt him. What I want to know is, is there anywhere I can order the medication for this. I don't want to pay a vet 80 dollars just to look at him if I can avoid it. Also, how long will it take him to beat this?

I actually found this link:

http://www.rcreptiles.com/blog/index...l-python-respi

I also found Tylan online. I would like to try and treat him myself. Can anyone just tell me how to perform the injection?

Antibiotics can only be obtained from a licensed veterinarian. And in order for a vet to prescribe antibiotics, there must be an existing doctor/patient relationship...ie. the vet has to examine your snake or has examined your snake in the past. It is against the law for a vet to prescribe medication without ever having seen your snake (in other words, an exam is not simply "money in the vet's pocket," there are legal reasons).

p.s. I suspect the main reason your snake was on the prowl after a few months in the tub was because of his proximity to your gfs snakes (females?) and the arrrival of breeding season!

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Originally Posted by GoBoilers

Antibiotics can only be obtained from a licensed veterinarian. And in order for a vet to prescribe antibiotics, there must be an existing doctor/patient relationship...ie. the vet has to examine your snake or has examined your snake in the past. It is against the law for a vet to prescribe medication without ever having seen your snake (in other words, an exam is not simply "money in the vet's pocket," there are legal reasons).

p.s. I suspect the main reason your snake was on the prowl after a few months in the tub was because of his proximity to your gfs snakes (females?) and the arrrival of breeding season!

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He couldn't see them, could he smell them? Also, I found Tylan online sooo...? lol

**EDIT forgot link: http://www.amazon.com/Durvet-Inc-D-T...4981560&sr=8-3

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Originally Posted by dsmalex97

I don't believe the tank is the issue just because he was feeding best when in the the tank. I think I left an important detail out. I adopted him when I was living at my house, and ended up moving in with my girlfriends house. She didn't have room because of all her snakes, so I left the tank at my house. I would stop in a few times a week spot cleaning, changing water, and feeding. He was fine for the longest time and I was happy because he was in poor conditions when I got him, and I managed to put weight on him and see him blossom into what he really was supposed to look like. A few months went by(making it september octoberish)and my girlfriend(Kristyn) was able to make some room, so we converted him into a tub snake. At first it didn't seem to make a difference, but after about 2 months he started getting really antsy and he was always on the prowl, always moving and I rarely saw him calm. Still kept his appetite up though throughout all of this.

Here's where I think things went sour....

Unfortunately Kristyn was having a hard time keeping the temps where they need to be through the winter and sometimes they were exposed to some low temps that they really shouldn't have...Nothing lower then 70, which I know is way too low unless you are cooling your snakes for breeding, but thats only in short intervals. I wasn't liking how cold it was and after a while he stopped eating, and only eating sometimes so I decided to bring him back to my house. After bringing him there I also put him back in the tank being that there never seemed to be any issue with it, and is what he's used to. He continued eating normal again up until june, and then stopped. I had him out yesterday because I attempted to force feed him, because he's lost quite a bit of weight. Didn't weigh him because my scale wasn't there, but I KNOW hes skinny now. Hes back to what he was when I got him...But I did notice him wheezing. He didn't just shed so its not stuck shed. I think its RI, because when I was trying to force feed him I did notice a decent build up of saliva in his gums. I didn't notice it as much after I tried force feeding, which by the way was unsuccessful, he was squirming too much and I didn't want to hurt him. What I want to know is, is there anywhere I can order the medication for this. I don't want to pay a vet 80 dollars just to look at him if I can avoid it. Also, how long will it take him to beat this?

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You need to take him to the vet if you suspect an RI. Just giving any antibiotic (and getting it offline? Those drugs could be expired or mislabeled or factory rejects, etc) may not fix the problem.

The vet needs to do a culture to figure out which bacteria is causing the problem THEN prescribe the appropriate antibiotic that the bacteria is most susceptible too. The vet should also show you how to dose the animal; the right amount of medication, over (x) amount of days and how to give the injections or tube the snake of the meds are to administered orally.

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Originally Posted by cinderbird

You need to take him to the vet if you suspect an RI. Just giving any antibiotic (and getting it offline? Those drugs could be expired or mislabeled or factory rejects, etc) may not fix the problem.

The vet needs to do a culture to figure out which bacteria is causing the problem THEN prescribe the appropriate antibiotic that the bacteria is most susceptible too. The vet should also show you how to dose the animal; the right amount of medication, over (x) amount of days and how to give the injections or tube the snake of the meds are to administered orally.

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The anti-biotic they usually use is Tylan. Its not something I just randomly chose. No one else has done this? I watched videos on how to give a snake a shot, its not rocket science. And I mean, what else would cause wheezing, mucus build up, loss of appetite, and loss of weight? Seems obvious no?

Ah the cattle industry! I should amend my statement: antibiotics that have the best odds of beating an infection are only obtained by a licensed vet! ;) Some sulfa drugs as well as tylosin can be obtained from feed stores...but there's a reason for that: they're just not as effective as newer antibiotics, but for the cattle industry, when you're dealing with 1000 head, you want the most economical option while still having somewhat of a fighting chance with infections.

So what are your cons?

1) This product is in a dosage designed for 1000# animals...if you don't get your dose correct, you risk serious injury to your snake.

2) Tylosin has not proven to be as effective as either Baytril or Amikacin for snake RIs. Your snake is already debilitated, you need to decide if the risk of waiting around to see if the antibiotic works is worth the time lost and your BP becoming even more debilitated hence making even the appropriate antibiotic at this point less effective.

3) The injections for Tylosin are daily injections (as opposed to once a week or so with Baytril). You risk alot of stress and irritation to your BP (again, a BP that is already debilitated).

It's up to you...p.s. you may want to up his temps and humidity in the mean time!

p.p.s. Yes, he can smell the other snakes! :)

p.p.s. I forgot to mention that Tylosin is used in cattle at a SUB-THERAPUTIC dose...ie. it is not used for ACTIVE infections, rather it is used to prevent infections from occurring in the first place by giving it to cattle on a consistant basis. If a cow does come down with an active infection, only antibiotics obtained from a vet are used (Baytril, etc.) (which should tell you something about the power of Tylosin to treat an active infection...in other words, it doesn't).

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Originally Posted by GoBoilers

Ah the cattle industry! I should amend my statement: antibiotics that have the best odds of beating an infection are only obtained by a licensed vet! ;) Some sulfa drugs as well as tylosin can be obtained from feed stores...but there's a reason for that: they're just not as effective as newer antibiotics, but for the cattle industry, when you're dealing with 1000 head, you want the most economical option while still having somewhat of a fighting chance with infections.

So what are your cons?

1) This product is in a dosage designed for 1000# animals...if you don't get your dose correct, you risk serious injury to your snake.

2) Tylosin has not proven to be as effective as either Baytril or Amikacin for snake RIs. Your snake is already debilitated, you need to decide if the risk of waiting around to see if the antibiotic works is worth the time lost and your BP becoming even more debilitated hence making even the appropriate antibiotic at the point less effective.

3) The injections for Tylosin are daily injections (as opposed to once a week or so with Baytril). You risk alot of stress and irritation to your BP (again, a BP that is already debilitated).

It's up to you...p.s. you may want to up his temps and humidity in the mean time!

p.p.s. Yes, he can smell the other snakes! :)

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hmmmm now your making me re-think all of this...I was thinking it was all the same stuff. Looks like I'm off to the vet...I hate spending money on stupid fee's its just a pet peeve I have.

I know, but it's probably best for your BP to know quickly what's going on...not all antibiotics are created the same. One might be better for killing one bacteria than another and visa versa. It's best to do a culture and figure out exactly what bacteria is infecting your BP so that the right antibiotic is chosen right away as opposed to the "blind guess" technique ie. if one antibiotic doesn't work, try this one next! Especially if your guy has already lost some weight...time is really a factor and even though it's more money up front, you may save a little cash by getting the right antibiotic off the bat as opposed to having to buy 2 or 3 antibiotics because the one before didn't work. You're also helping to prevent overall bacterial resistance to antibiotics by getting only what you absolutely need and keeping our current stockpile of antibiotics effective for a longer period of time! MRSA is one example of a super-bug that was created out of our tendency to throw antibiotics at everything!

And be sure to up those temps! That can have an equally important impact in his overcoming an infection!

p.s. Good luck!! I hope everything turns out okay!!

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Originally Posted by GoBoilers

p.s. Good luck!! I hope everything turns out okay!!

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thanks appreciate all the help!! Temps are higher as well!!

There are lots of antibiotics available without a prescription. Tylan is only one of them. There are at least a few different ones available for farm animals, and a few available for aquarium fish. We can even get antibiotic ointment for humans.

However, what we can't get OTC is a culture that will tell us what sort of infection it is, and which antibiotics will help. Even broad-spectrum antibiotics like Baytril won't cure every infection, so if you want to give your snake the best chance of getting better ASAP, go to your vet and get a culture done. Then your vet will know which medicine to prescribe.

Here is a link to an old thread in which the possibility of treating a BP's RI with Tylan is discussed:
http://www.ball-pythons.net/forums/s...ighlight=tylan

I believe one person reported first hand success using Tylan to treat RI in a BP. Of course, we don't know for sure it was the Tylan that worked. Maybe the BP never had an RI. One time I managed to drop a drop of water right on the nose of one of my snakes. Immediately after, she whistling, popping, wheezing, and bubbling, just like they are supposed to with RIs, except her symptoms faded within a few hours. Something similar could have happened in this case and in others where snakes supposedly recover from RIs with no treatment or alternative treatments (or even those that get "properly" diagnosed and treated by a vet that is clueless about herps).

More importantly, several people pointed out problems with Tylan. Most of the 2nd hand info that was shared in that thread was about treating boas, not BPs. Maybe it is a very good RI treatment for boas, but that won't necessarily help a BP. Also, Tylan is apparently only effective against either gram negative or gram positive bacteria (don't remember which), but not both. If you don't know what kind of bacteria your BP has, you can't know if Tylan will be effective.

As far as your feeding question, an RI can definitely put your snake off feed. I recommend taking him to a vet, getting a culture done, and treating the RI. I wouldn't be surprised if once he is well again, he starts eating again.

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Originally Posted by dsmalex97

He couldn't see them, could he smell them?

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My male corn definitely knows there's a female nearby. Not only did his behaviour change when I got her (he calmed down and got alot more tractable), if I handle him right after I've handled her, he'll sit there and smell me for several minutes. It's really neat to watch.

(another interesting unrelated thing - if one of us has a corn, and someone else in the room has say, a python, the corn will freeze if they get close enough.)