Best BEL?

There are so many combos to make a BEL, which combo is best?
Which combo makes the whitest BEL?
Which makes the 'coolest' BEL? (faint patterns or color tinges?)
Which combos produce the dirtiest BELS?
Is there a combo that makes bluer eyes than other combos?
:juggle:

lesser-lesser

Well I was just looking around and bumped into this post from Ralph Davis:
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/ma...y_blue_eye.asp
".the lucys from Platty Daddy x Lesser are blue eyed, pure white with ZERO dorsal markings............the "whitest" Lucy on the planet to date!!! ( Platty x Lesser )"

So... does the Platty/ Lesser still rank as the whitest BEL?

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Originally Posted by Delilah

Well I was just looking around and bumped into this post from Ralph Davis:
http://www.ralphdavisreptiles.com/ma...y_blue_eye.asp
".the lucys from Platty Daddy x Lesser are blue eyed, pure white with ZERO dorsal markings............the "whitest" Lucy on the planet to date!!! ( Platty x Lesser )"

So... does the Platty/ Lesser still rank as the whitest BEL?

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But has Ralph ever been able to make another Platty yet? Isnt that supposed to be a mystery gene that created the true Platinum? I havent kept up on that one.

If you look at Vin Russo's site he also talks about the russo hets (white diamond lucy's) They are also supposed to be the whitest with the lightest blue eyes. Ive seen excellent lucy's come from lesser x lesser, butter x butter, russo x russo and any combo of the three. I believe you have a chance at getting a pure white snake from any of these combos just as much as you have the chance at getting a dirty looking lucy.

Ralph has made several more platties, and even a couple butter platties. Additionally, someone in Germany who's name eludes me got a platty out of a pairing of a lesser and a "normal".

Lesser x Lesser

Lesser Platinum X Lesser Platinum is what I have been told. Hope to see for myself in the very near future.

Lesser x lesser make a nice clean bell.

But if you do a Mojave x lesser you will still get a clean white snake but you will have more breeding options with it.
:cool:

Russos for the cleanest.

It looks like Platy is a combo of two different mutations of the same gene (alleles). So in that respect platy would be the same as a BEL, just not a totally white one. One of the mutations is lesser and the other has been called "hidden" because they apparently look normal.

So platy X lesser would produce eggs each with a 25% chance of being BEL's, 25% chance of being platy, 25% chance of lesser, and 25% chance hidden. The BEL's would be the same as a lesser X lesser breeding.

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Originally Posted by Delilah

There are so many combos to make a BEL, which combo is best?
Which combo makes the whitest BEL?
Anything without mojave,
Lesser/Butter/Russo x Lesser/Butter/Russo/Mocha/Phantom/Mystic
Which makes the 'coolest' BEL? (faint patterns or color tinges?)
Super Phantom
Which combos produce the dirtiest BELS?
Mojave x Mojave
Is there a combo that makes bluer eyes than other combos?
Good question, this I would like to know also
:juggle:

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also with the platty thing
from ralphs text I just got done reading over it would seem to me platty is a combo morph between a lesser/butter and a recessive "hidden" gene, but the "hidden" gene only pops up with the lesser/butter morph not on its own.

"Platties are still only being produced from breeding a Lesser that is sired by Platty Daddy to a normal looking that is sired by Platty Daddy....or Platty Daddy x normal sib or Lesser. "

"The 01 Grandmother of this clutch was part of my 04 breedings when I was breeding "platty sib" x "platty sib" trying to isolate the "hypo platty gene".......those breedings produced 4 clutches with a total of 19 normal looking offspring produced......"


but yea a platty x lesser would be a lesser x lesser BEL het hidden gene, atleast if im understanding it right.

Prices are a fallin, why make when you can buy......NOW!
Saw one on Kingsnake.com today for $1300

I personally want to hatch out my own morphs. (recessives, supers, multi-gene combos, etc). I think it would be much more rewarding to have bred them yourself. :D When I go to make BELs I will use a lesser X lesser pairing. Of course, I kind of like the look of the mojave X mojave.

i would go butter x butter

I originally also subscribed to the theory that the thing added to lesser to make a platy was recessive but with more breeding results posted that doesn't seem to be the case.

1. RDR made the butter version of platy without inbreeding. So it must be just one additional allele to turn a lesser (or butter) into the platy.

2. No lesser X lesser has been reported to produce platy. If the extra ingredient was recessive then surely since all RDR line lessers are descendent from the platy a pair of hets would be bred by now. The allele theory explains why no lesser can carry the extra gene to make platy.

butter to butter! thats what ima do. this next season

Edit: i was thinking a poll should be added.

Hi,

Is it impossible that an allele could be inherited differently?

I am not very sure of the terms but what I mean is this;

Could it be physically possible for two alleles to be different in that one is co-dom and one is recessive?

I don't think it's the case in plattys given the breeding results we have seen but would the folowing be possible

A&B are the alleles in this. A is a visible het with a distinct super form and B is a non-visual het with a visual homozygous form and AB is visibly different from both AA and BB.

I was just curious. :oops:


dr del

I decided on lesser x lesser but then I said to myself I want all the white snakes.LOL So in the future I will have all of them except the het russo bel.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

It looks like Platy is a combo of two different mutations of the same gene (alleles). So in that respect platy would be the same as a BEL, just not a totally white one. One of the mutations is lesser and the other has been called "hidden" because they apparently look normal.

So platy X lesser would produce eggs each with a 25% chance of being BEL's, 25% chance of being platy, 25% chance of lesser, and 25% chance hidden. The BEL's would be the same as a lesser X lesser breeding.

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Randy,

If this were the case, then theoretically wouldn't two 'platty sibs' bred together have the chance to produce a homozygous platinum as well? (Or perhaps even something which looks different - super phantoms come to mind.) Just curious, because I'm fairly certain Ralph has done this pairing and not gotten any results. Or is it plausible the homozygote could be 'hidden' along with the heterozygote, which would explain the apparent lack of results of that pairing?

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Originally Posted by Jay_Bunny

I personally want to hatch out my own morphs. (recessives, supers, multi-gene combos, etc). I think it would be much more rewarding to have bred them yourself. :D When I go to make BELs I will use a lesser X lesser pairing. Of course, I kind of like the look of the mojave X mojave.

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Agree. But sometimes it is easier to buy the combo and move towards to your final dream combo when already having one of the combined componets for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

I originally also subscribed to the theory that the thing added to lesser to make a platy was recessive but with more breeding results posted that doesn't seem to be the case.

1. RDR made the butter version of platy without inbreeding. So it must be just one additional allele to turn a lesser (or butter) into the platy.

2. No lesser X lesser has been reported to produce platy. If the extra ingredient was recessive then surely since all RDR line lessers are descendent from the platy a pair of hets would be bred by now. The allele theory explains why no lesser can carry the extra gene to make platy.

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makes sense, you got me convinced

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Is it impossible that an allele could be inherited differently?

dr del

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MIGHT be happening with pied. The leopard might be a new allele of the pied gene that is fully co-dominant (as opposed to the old pied allele that is officially recessive but with frequent but less extreme co-dominant tendencies).

Russ, I think it's like you said, even the homozygous hidden seems to remain hidden. Would love to know what sort of mutation that could be that only shows up when paired with other mutations of the same gene. I'm sure with all the hidden X hidden pairings RDR did early on he produced some homozygous hiddens but then later he did a platy X platy pairing that produced a normal that per the allele theory of platy should be homozygous hidden. Don't know if he kept it and bred it to a homozygous lesser BEL to confirm that pairing produces 100% platy as expected.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

MIGHT be happening with pied. The leopard might be a new allele of the pied gene that is fully co-dominant (as opposed to the old pied allele that is officially recessive but with frequent but less extreme co-dominant tendencies).

Russ, I think it's like you said, even the homozygous hidden seems to remain hidden. Would love to know what sort of mutation that could be that only shows up when paired with other mutations of the same gene. I'm sure with all the hidden X hidden pairings RDR did early on he produced some homozygous hiddens but then later he did a platy X platy pairing that produced a normal that per the allele theory of platy should be homozygous hidden. Don't know if he kept it and bred it to a homozygous lesser BEL to confirm that pairing produces 100% platy as expected.

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I don't think that specific pairing has been done, but it would be interesting to see. Perhaps a suggestion should be made to Ralph to attempt that pairing. I would also like to see the hidden paired with the other members of the BEL complex (Russo hets in particular) to see what else could be produced from it.

butter x butter and lesser x lesser from what I have seen are identical...