Don't use Eco Earth Loose coconut fiber substrate.

I just had a horrible experience with this bedding, my snake struck at her mouse, missed and got a horrible mouth full of this stuff and couldn’t work it out. She literally chocked on the stuff it was stuck like paste to the bottom and top of her mouth and completely clogged her glottis. I will never use this again.
Any other ideas what to use in a glass aquarium that looks good and holds in humidity.

She's doing fine now although a little pissed about the mouth rinsing but she went back in ate the mouse amazingly enough.

Yeah hence why most people on here recommend using aspen or Repti Bark. Repti bark will keep your humidity high and the pieces are big enough that your snake can't ingest it and get impacted.

I don't like loose substrate at all.

I've switched to coconut fiber recently since I can get it in large amounts cheap. What you said happens occasionally but I don't think its really a serious situation. I've had similar situations with other bedding. For example, I used to use a fir/sphagnum bedding. It was expensive but I had good results. Due to its rougher texture I never had the "mouthfuls of dirt" scenarios like I see every so often w/ coconut. But...one time my BP missed and hit a little piece of fir bark and got it nailed down on his lower front teeth. This sucker was not coming out with the standard mouth-rubbing routine. My snake was so pissed it worked on it for a good half-hour before giving in and consuming the mouse with a dirty mouth. In the end, I had to forcibly remove the piece of bark.

My theory along these lines is that snakes eat off of dirt and twigs in the wild and therefore are equipped to handle the occasional mouthful of substrate. Of course, you want your pet to reap some benefits from captivity but it is important to remember what they are built for. I'm not flaming you for switching to another substrate. I've considered it myself for this very reason. But, I think the finely ground nature of coconut fiber probably makes it a low compaction risk. And, coconut fiber has some excellent properties such as moisture retention and bacteria resistance. In addition, it packs nicely which I like. Some beddings allow the snake to slowly burrow down towards the heat source under its hide which makes tricker to safely heat the cage.

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Originally Posted by steveboos

Yeah hence why most people on here recommend using aspen or Repti Bark. Repti bark will keep your humidity high and the pieces are big enough that your snake can't ingest it and get impacted.

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I know someone that lost his albino burm to that repti-bark crap :(.I used old newspapers for all my snakes ;).If they get bored maybe they can learn to read :P

LOL

But then you have to worry about them starting to ask difficult questions...

:)

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Originally Posted by bearhart

LOL

But then you have to worry about them starting to ask difficult questions...

:)

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Maybe but you will know if they are unhappy about anything :rofl:

Seriously, though, this raises a good question for me. I've always been a bit hazy on exactly how compaction occurs. When I first heard of it, it was this kind of spooky thing that might as well have been "kooties". After some more reading and experience with snakes, I've reasoned that they must have to consume some significant amount of non-digestable material and attain some sort of "critical mass" to become dangerously blocked up.

what I'm still not sure of is about how much material that is and whether or not it is cumulative. I would tend to think that, for compaction to occur, the snake would have to consume some large amount of bedding in one meal. My reasoning is that, if the amount is too small to create a blockage, it will be passed through even if it is non-digestable. What is scarier to me is that thought that perhaps compaction occurs as a buildiup.

Can anybody shed more light on this?

I love coco mulch, I personally think its heaven sent. I avoid the whole situation you described by usually using a feeding bin for mealtime. I just have paper towels for that.

I would hate for you to blast coco mulch just because of this one incident.Its greats stuff, IMHO. There are lots of us who like it, and if you feed outside of their enclousre you won't have this issue, although I recognize this may not be something you do:)

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Originally Posted by bearhart

Seriously, though, this raises a good question for me. I've always been a bit hazy on exactly how compaction occurs. When I first heard of it, it was this kind of spooky thing that might as well have been "kooties". After some more reading and experience with snakes, I've reasoned that they must have to consume some significant amount of non-digestable material and attain some sort of "critical mass" to become dangerously blocked up.

what I'm still not sure of is about how much material that is and whether or not it is cumulative. I would tend to think that, for compaction to occur, the snake would have to consume some large amount of bedding in one meal. My reasoning is that, if the amount is too small to create a blockage, it will be passed through even if it is non-digestable. What is scarier to me is that thought that perhaps compaction occurs as a buildiup.

Can anybody shed more light on this?

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Well with the repti-bark it took one piece caught in the throat and it killed the snake before they realized something was wrong :(.So its not always the amount that is fatal.

To kill quickly, the peice would have had to have blocked the airway. Even for a large 10' snake, that opening is quite small. I would think that either it was some sort of freak accident OR the snake had so much bedding packed in its mouth that it somehow was forced to inhale solid dirt. Bizarre story.

My biggest beef with paper is that you can't really spot-clean it and anything like a large uriniation over water-dsh overflow creates an unhealthy mess. On the other hand, with an inch of coco mulch your snake could completely unload itself and then go and tip over its water dish and still find a nice dry place to coil up.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bearhart

To kill quickly, the peice would have had to have blocked the airway. Even for a large 10' snake, that opening is quite small. I would think that either it was some sort of freak accident OR the snake had so much bedding packed in its mouth that it somehow was forced to inhale solid dirt. Bizarre story.

My biggest beef with paper is that you can't really spot-clean it and anything like a large uriniation over water-dsh overflow creates an unhealthy mess. On the other hand, with an inch of coco mulch your snake could completely unload itself and then go and tip over its water dish and still find a nice dry place to coil up.

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Yes it was lodged directly in the airway.The only thing they could figure out was it must have stuck to her prey items fur and was swallowed with it.

We use Eco Earth and have had them strike and get a mouthful quite often. We have had to pick hold the snake and pick it out....they love it....NOT. Anyways....what we have done now and it seems to work is prior to feeding we put down papertowels and put the snakes on the paper towels prior to feeding. So far ...this has worked out great. I have to note though...I cannot wait to get my rack so I can use newspaper or paper towels.

I know this is an old post but, to me, it seems that everyone that is having problems with their substrate is during feeding. I feed in different tanks than they are housed in. I have one tank that I cannot get the humidity to over 30%!!! I am thinking of trying reptibark? I have a huge water dish, UTH, 15w light and aspen bedding. Its a 20 long by the way. All the tanks are in the same room and on the same stand. This ONE is throwing me for a loop though.
Also, the top 3/4 or so is foiled. I can mist and it will go up to 45 to 50% for about an hour or so then start falling again.

i'll say that i have a 16oogram ball and i have kept her in eco earth for a year. she does get a mouth full or very little sometimes.
but read the label,
its 100% degestable.
odor absorbent and breaks down overseen waste.
its reusable(if you know how to clean it)
and 100% safe for any reptile. and trust me i've seen them with a mouth full and they have a hard time getting it down. yes.

but think in the wild, how many times do you thing the get dirt in their mouth?
vs big chunks of repti bark, aspen, ect....

i say its the best stuff for glass tanks. if you put a peice of foam board on top with a cut out for the heat bulb (i use both a UTH and heat bulb) the humidity stays and heats the ambient perfectly.

just my 2cents.

Just playin Devil's advocate, here...

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Originally Posted by sookieball

its 100% digestible.

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The issue isn't that it's not digestible, it's that a mouthful of it can, in rare cases, be harmful. For example, if it gets in the snake's mouth and festers, an infection could develop.

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but think in the wild, how many times do you thing the get dirt in their mouth?

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True, but in the wild they usually are not on loose substrate; rather, they are on plants, branches, and hard packed dirt. Additionally, the prey they consume would not usually be wet and therefore various debris would not stick as easily.

That said, I like coconut fibre. It is a renewable resource, resistant to bacteria and mold, but I find it needs to be kept damp. If you let it dry out, it definitely does start sticking to things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zoe

Just playin Devil's advocate, here...



The issue isn't that it's not digestible, it's that a mouthful of it can, in rare cases, be harmful. For example, if it gets in the snake's mouth and festers, an infection could develop.



True, but in the wild they usually are not on loose substrate; rather, they are on plants, branches, and hard packed dirt. Additionally, the prey they consume would not usually be wet and therefore various debris would not stick as easily.

That said, I like coconut fibre. It is a renewable resource, resistant to bacteria and mold, but I find it needs to be kept damp. If you let it dry out, it definitely does start sticking to things.

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in rare cases maybe, but would you rather be standing there picking chips of wood outta their mouth while they down the rat or let them eat in peace?
ive tried all the other substrates and none are less of a worry than ecoearth.

oh and i let mine get pretty dry. and the humidity is still at 70%

and wait why would the rat/mouse be wet when feeding? mine are always dry.
with the exception of drool from my snakes.

for the most part theres always very little EE in my lill ones mouth from the strike not dragging in the prey,

but to each their own

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Originally Posted by sookieball

in rare cases maybe, but would you rather be standing there picking chips of wood outta their mouth while they down the rat or let them eat in peace?
ive tried all the other substrates and none are less of a worry than ecoearth.

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I think you might have missed my point... Did you miss the part where I said I was playing devil's advocate and that I do like (and use) coconut mulch? :) IMO it's one of the best substrates but it's not 100% foolproof (nothing seems to be when you hear about snakes eating entire pieces of paper towel) and I wanted to clear up some of your misconceptions about the issues surrounding it.

Incidentally, I have had a snake get it in his "cheeks". Lemme tell ya, getting that out of a GTP's mouth is no picnic! Luckily I noticed right away, and he is pretty tame, so it was quick work. It was because the substrate was dry... which is why I recommend keeping it somewhat damp. When it gets dry it flies around and sticks to everything.

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and wait why would the rat/mouse be wet when feeding? mine are always dry.
with the exception of drool from my snakes.

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Lots of people thaw their rodents directly in warm water... I do. I pat them dry in paper towel and I don't feed directly on the substrate but if you did some could stick to it. Again, it's usually not a serious issue, but it can happen and there is no harm in being aware of it and taking steps to avoid any potential problems.

I always lay something down in the tank over the coco fiber before i feed my snake to avoid getting it in there mouth.

cypress mulch has worked wonders for me!

I also use coc coir I love it and it is very very cheap. I used cyprus and aspen and mixes of coc and wood chips in the past but it is much more upsetting to watch your snake try to eat wood splinters than coco coir that is fine. I use a plastic pad to feed on but they always seem to drag it off into the coco and eat some I have yet to have a problem I can see that in a freek accident it could block an airway but then again so can aspen or cyprus. I personally like not taking a tree that is important to the everglades eco system and cutting to down to grind to muclch. Not a by product of something else just mulch. Melaleuca mulch at least is a better option and has about the same properties.

Weve just started using loose coco fibre with one of our snaes and it seems like an absolute pain in the.. you know.

From what I can see it looks like she already has a bunch stuck to the front top of her mouth..
I really dont know what to do because we just spend the past hour setting it all up again. Since, she has been constantly yawning, and dipping her face into the water then back into the substrate.

Any suggestions..?

:) As stated by others, I use a seperate feeding container for that reason alone... I use both Coconut Husk Fiber and Repti Bark for all of my snakes and creepy crawlies and have not had a problem.

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Originally Posted by PrettyInInk87

:) As stated by others, I use a seperate feeding container for that reason alone... I use both Coconut Husk Fiber and Repti Bark for all of my snakes and creepy crawlies and have not had a problem.

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X2-3and4

That has no relevance to our post.. We have seen though this whole thread that we would have to be bin feeding to happily use this stuff, but this has happened through her merely being in the stuff.

The post was because she had managed to get a bunch stuck to the top of her mouth cause neither her or us can get her eye caps off, and she keeps dunking herself to try to moisten them up. Since that we went out and bought some aspen, and decided that we will attempt to address humidity issues another way.

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Originally Posted by DarrinLowe

That has no relevance to our post.. We have seen though this whole thread that we would have to be bin feeding to happily use this stuff, but this has happened through her merely being in the stuff.

The post was because she had managed to get a bunch stuck to the top of her mouth cause neither her or us can get her eye caps off, and she keeps dunking herself to try to moisten them up. Since that we went out and bought some aspen, and decided that we will attempt to address humidity issues another way.

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Okay now I am lost as I have re-read over and over and see no post from you on this thread that would make ANYTHING relevant to you what so ever:confused::confused:
Stuck shed and eye caps is from lack of humidity. Coco really helps raise the humidity a ton.
Even when my snakes are soaking, they never get any stuck in the mouth so I am at a loss on this

Mine have been on it for almost a year yes they eat it sometimes and will miss every now and again will get a mouthful of the coco coir they seem to swallow and pass it with no problems. I have not had any shed problems either. I have had to pull a chunk of cyprus out of a the mouth of one of mine after a whole night of him trying to get it out on his own. I'll not switch back to wood chips of any sort.

Bearheart and Chocolate Muffin's hit the nail on the head.

I've used coconut husks of various brands for years with no problems. I use it because it retains moisture very well, it's not dusty, and it is not in large chunks. I used it as substrate for a JCP, and I use it in moist hides for my leos.
However this is the first time that I have heard of coconut husk used for ball pythons. Do they really need something that holds humidity that well? With all reptiles I'm more in favor of the KISS approach with newspaper or paper towels, unless they have particularly high humidity requirements.

the coco husk has its uses as long as there is no food on it (i have seen a number of people loose crested geckos to the stuff while eating crickets). food dishes or fed in a different cage is necessary in my opinion. it is still a useful product in the right cases

It obviously has it's uses, but with balls really?

Wow old thread revived. :D I looked back on my post.....just to let you know now I house all my snakes in bins except for a milk snake. I can tell you we have since switched over to paper towels and I LOVE IT!!! So super clean and easy to throw out...disenfect the aq. or the bin and lay down more. When you see your snake go blue or a pink belly you can add a damp washcloth over the warm hide. This should take care of all of your shedding problems. Works like a charm.

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Originally Posted by LizardPants

However this is the first time that I have heard of coconut husk used for ball pythons. Do they really need something that holds humidity that well?

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by LizardPants

It obviously has it's uses, but with balls really?

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You need a substrate that holds a lot of humidity if you have your balls in tanks. I am not fond of racks at all even though if/when I start breeding I will prolly need to get a juvi rack. LOL

This is why I feed mine in a separate tank..with newspaper....to avoid this AND to avoid being mistaken for food lol I actually love the Eco Earth coconut substrate. It does wonders for my humidity.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bearhart

I've switched to coconut fiber recently since I can get it in large amounts cheap. What you said happens occasionally but I don't think its really a serious situation. I've had similar situations with other bedding. For example, I used to use a fir/sphagnum bedding. It was expensive but I had good results. Due to its rougher texture I never had the "mouthfuls of dirt" scenarios like I see every so often w/ coconut. But...one time my BP missed and hit a little piece of fir bark and got it nailed down on his lower front teeth. This sucker was not coming out with the standard mouth-rubbing routine. My snake was so pissed it worked on it for a good half-hour before giving in and consuming the mouse with a dirty mouth. In the end, I had to forcibly remove the piece of bark.

But the said thing is the mothful of dirt and impaction do happen as a matter of a fact one of my many corn snakes died of impaction from this. R.I.P. eetwidomalah
My theory along these lines is that snakes eat off of dirt and twigs in the wild and therefore are equipped to handle the occasional mouthful of substrate. Of course, you want your pet to reap some benefits from captivity but it is important to remember what they are built for. I'm not flaming you for switching to another substrate. I've considered it myself for this very reason. But, I think the finely ground nature of coconut fiber probably makes it a low compaction risk. And, coconut fiber has some excellent properties such as moisture retention and bacteria resistance. In addition, it packs nicely which I like. Some beddings allow the snake to slowly burrow down towards the heat source under its hide which makes tricker to safely heat the cage.

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:rolleyes: Of course, in the wild they also deal with parasites, predators, and disease in the wild, but we try to avoid adding that into our captive snakes, lol!

I've used and still use particle substrate(Aspen) with one of my snakes, though as soon as this last batch has run it's course we are switching to newspaper. It's just easier. Our other two snakes are on it, and if they 'go' we just replace that newspaper and put in a clean one. No mess, no fuss, no worrying about it getting bad and replacing it, cause you just replace it anyway. And I don't like feeding on substrate like that either. I feel that if the animal's life is in my hands--which, as a pet, it is-- I want to give it the safest life possible, so if anything DOES go wrong, I don't have to worry about other possibilities like ingesting substrate adding to the equation! So I feed our Maru outside her tank. Sure she'd be most likely fine eating on substrate, but you know, there is always that chance. I don't want the one freak accident to be my snake if all it takes for me to avoid it is to put it on paper. Plus, I'm sure it's unpleasant for the snake, LOL! How do you like crud in your food?

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Originally Posted by purplemuffin

How do you like crud in your food?

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LOL ................ DONT watch the sanitation video my wife had to watch when she was in school getting her degree in culinary arts:O You will never want to go out to eat AGAIN...............took 6 months before I could eat chicken again:(

I came upon this thread because our BP currently has a mouthful of coconut fiber from rooting during her shed. Can I pick her up to get it out or should I wait until after her shed? She doesn't look too happy... but then again, I guess I can relate to the "peeling" stage of good old California sunburns, so NOT enjoyable!! LOL

But seriously, is it normal for them to get a mouthful of substrate during a shed?? ~Thanks!!

Cypress mulch is my go-to bedding for rainbow boas, which I find thrive with higher humidity.

edit: just realized, the original post is from 2010... lol

I've used Eco Earth for almost 5yrs now with my snakes and tegus and haven't had any issues. It's not digestible but it's small enough to pass through the digestive system with out any issues. It mixes in with the poop so it's harder to see it.

Any time wet touches dry somethings going to stick, especially with something that's absorbent. Eco Earth is meant to be kept moist. The only time I've seen clumps of it sticking to any of my reps is when they have been in their water and the substrate is too dry.

How low or at what level do you hold the feeder if at all, for the snake to miss and get a mouth full of Eco Earth? I don't lay feeders on the substrate I dangle it until they strike. By the time it's on the substrate it's pretty well covered. Even when they drop it to re position, it's not covered in substrate when they eat it.

@RottsTottsnRepts you can restrain her and try and get it out or let her soak for a bit

why don't you just not feed in the enclosure??? lol

Thank you everyone!
My Boyfriend just got a Ball Python (Cherry) and wanted a more natural looking substrate for her, he found it hard to get facts and not a bias opinion about it but the snake "expert" at the pet store told him the only type you can ever be use for pythons is Aspen, I found this hard to believe so I started searching for options and found this site and posts.

It seams to me there are lots of options for substrate, and it comes down to personal choice and for you to take what ever precautions you can (just like any other pet) so we will try out different types until we find what works best for our selves. Thanks again

We use Eco earth. I love it and have never had any problems. Great for humidity, looks nice. Most of my snakes eat in seperate tubs, but the ones that don't have never had a problem with getting any in their mouth. As others have said, I am sure they consume things in the wild when feeding. I would not worry about using it. It's great stuff.

Coconut fiber is not that bad actually. Try feeding your snake outside of her cage. I mix 25% coconut fiber with 75% cypress mulch. The combo holds humidity really well and so far I haven't had any issues with it.

Orchid bark is what a friend of mine uses. Cypress mulch isn't bad either.

I use eco earth bricks (helps humidity) when ever I feed (F/T, or live to my Bela aka my bp) I put paper towel down over the area (opposite her hide) and put her on it and dangle the mouse in front of her. I have done this since one time she struck it and dragged a wet mouse on the substrate and ate bedding. Works perfectly then when she moves I remove the paper towel.
quick and easy plus she don't eat substrate. Good Luck

I just don't feed my ball pythons in their living enclosure, period. I.e living enclosure has loose substrate.

I read on Yahoo answers someone said not to do this? I guess their reason is they confuse you for food when you do this. I don't get that statement. If that's the case then they would every time you take them out to handle regardless. If they strike you when you take them out to feed, then you've probably either A.) waited to long and they're hungry or B.) Have handled the mouse before relocating your BP. BPs have excellent taste/smell. For me it only makes sense to take advantage of that. Especially for a picky eater. Which implies, find what works and stick with it. Choose a second enclosure exclusively for feeding. It keeps the smell of dead mouse there, and not in their enclosure. Drop them in the box, they smell the food, and know it's feeding time. Almost like a switch. Just remember, begin de-frostingm when it's about time move the snake, then take the mouse out of the packaging. Don't handle the mouse first. Like I said they will smell it and think your hand is a tasty mouse.

I have had excellent luck this way, and have only been bitten by my oldest snake 3 times in 5 years, and my two youngest never bitten yet.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DavesChillaxin

I just don't feed my ball pythons in their living enclosure, period. I.e living enclosure has loose substrate.

I read on Yahoo answers someone said not to do this? I guess their reason is they confuse you for food when you do this. I don't get that statement. If that's the case then they would every time you take them out to handle regardless. If they strike you when you take them out to feed, then you've probably either A.) waited to long and they're hungry or B.) Have handled the mouse before relocating your BP. BPs have excellent taste/smell. For me it only makes sense to take advantage of that. Especially for a picky eater. Which implies, find what works and stick with it. Choose a second enclosure exclusively for feeding. It keeps the smell of dead mouse there, and not in their enclosure. Drop them in the box, they smell the food, and know it's feeding time. Almost like a switch. Just remember, begin de-frostingm when it's about time move the snake, then take the mouse out of the packaging. Don't handle the mouse first. Like I said they will smell it and think your hand is a tasty mouse.

I have had excellent luck this way, and have only been bitten by my oldest snake 3 times in 5 years, and my two youngest never bitten yet.

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This topic has been covered many times. Not to mention that this thread is pretty dang old (was started over 5 years ago). Click this link --> http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=1#post2301460 <-- for a MUCH better discussion on this topic than Yahoo Answers could ever dream of providing.

The spoiler alert is that there aren't any good reasons to feed a ball python in a separate enclosure if you actually take time to think about it.

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Originally Posted by Eric Alan

This topic has been covered many times. Not to mention that this thread is pretty dang old (was started over 5 years ago). Click this link --> http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...=1#post2301460 <-- for a MUCH better discussion on this topic than Yahoo Answers could ever dream of providing.

The spoiler alert is that there aren't any good reasons to feed a ball python in a separate enclosure if you actually take time to think about it.

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Except to keep them from swallowing substrate.
I used Aspen and it refused to hold any humidity. Added a bunch of moss and the entire house smelled like wet moss. Got rid of them both and bought Zilla Jungle Mix. Looks good, holds humidity very well. I', p[leased with it. And it doesn't smell!

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Originally Posted by Boomerang

Except to keep them from swallowing substrate.

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I don't think you read the thread I linked to...

Just use a paper plate or newspaper to feed on then. Paper towels is not good to feed on. And needing to feed in a separate bin is an old wivestale that really only applied to large constrictors.