Inundate US F&W eith e-mail...

Start TODAY. Here's the link to their contact page:

http://www.fws.gov/DUSPIT/contactus.htm

I'd point out the following:
1) many boa constrictor subspecies don't get much more than 5'.

2) These species can't survive outside of Florida (I have been citing: Pyron RA, Burbrink FT, Guiher TJ (2008) Claims of Potential Expansion throughout the U.S. by Invasive Python Species Are Contradicted by Ecological
Niche Models. PLoS ONE 3(8): e2931. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0002931) and that there are studies that refute the USGS report.

3) How much interstate transport is important for you- whether you want to buy or sell, indicate how important is is for your hobby or business, and for the reptile GENE POOL for healthy and genetically strong specimens!

I sent mine. I think I'll send e-mails to them EVERY DAY.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jsschrei

I'd point out the following:
1) many boa constrictor subspecies get much more than 5'.

---

Do you perhaps mean that they DON'T get much more than 5'? I don't know enough about boas to know, but I don't see how pointing out that snakes get big is good for our cause.

Typo. Sorry. Don't get much more than 5'. My letter did not say that they do:oops:

Edit the first post if you still can, and if not perhaps a mod will do it for you. Last thing we need is people copying it off without thinking and it having a negative impact. :O

How do I edit?

fixed :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Nate

fixed :)

---

Thank you, Nate.

Great Avatar!

Thanks for this link, I am going to pass it long .

Everyone is obviously entitled to do what they feel is in their own best interest.

Personally, based on my experience fighting HR669, HR2811, & S373 on Capitol Hill and working with USFWS for the last 10 months, I'd recommend sending one polite, brief email explaining your objections to an injurious listing for each of these species and how an injurious listing would negatively effect you personally. The comment period will be opened up via the Federal Register in a couple of weeks and we'll all have an additional opportunity to provide on the record comments at that time as well.

Unlike politicians, USFWS scientists aren't elected. Thousands of people emailing them every day saying the same thing will not do much to sway their findings one way or the other. I know that PIJAC met with USFWS yesterday and I met with USFWS this morning and they are very open and willing to work with us to find the best possible solution. My concern is that a constant and steady email campaign from people saying the same thing day in and day out will turn them off and unsettle what looks to be a very positive process going forward.

Additionally, this is going to be a LONG process. The comment period alone will be 60 days before they even get started on the work that they will need to do in order to make their final decision.

I'm confident that looking to the leadership provided by PIJAC and USARK on this issue will help to achieve the greatest possible positive result.

I know that everyone wants to do what they can to help, but the battle just took a 180 degree turn and the guys & gals in the trenches are working on adjustments as we speak. Guidance is coming soon and it will be designed to not only get people involved so that they can be heard, but to make sure all of the "behind the scenes" negotiations continue as smoothly as possible.

I will do everything I can to pass the word as I get it.

Hope this helps.

-adam

I believe the campaign should continue but I believe we should all be prepared for the worst.

In case they are completely hell bent on banning the big snakes (burmese, af rocks, etc) then why are we not explaining to them that in the boa world there are many many that do not get big at all?

Sand boas? Are they to be banned?? Rainbow boas? Ground boas? Rosey boas? Thats just rediculas!

Just like in the beginning where they said the entire genus python would be banned, now they are being ignorant to the smaller boas as well.

Sure the ball python people may not be affected by this but when these meetings are taking place I believe the details concerning all the different types of such snakes should also be brought up.

Worst case scenario we may lose some snakes, but we dont have to lose them all. I myself have BCC's and SD Retics. The BCC's will get about as big as a boa can and they may be in danger due to this ban. The SD Retic's on the other hand get no bigger than a large king snake.

I wish they could be much more specific and knowledgeable on this :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I believe the campaign should continue but I believe we should all be prepared for the worst.

---

I agree that the campaign should continue as well, but I think it should continue in a way the compliments the efforts being taken up out of the public eye by PIJAC and USARK and not in a way that makes those efforts more difficult.

As far as being prepared for the worst, I personally feel that your analysis of this latest event is incorrect. Politicians that have no scientific back ground voting yes or no without any scientific debate is when we should have been prepared for the worst.

The regulatory process that will be initiated by the USFWS has a great possibility of working out favorably for us. That is why Senator Nelson introduced S373 instead of having USFWS initiate the listing process for Burmese pythons. Nelson knew that the listing process wasn't a "sure thing" and that S373 would be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Worst case scenario we may lose some snakes, but we dont have to lose them all. I myself have BCC's and SD Retics. The BCC's will get about as big as a boa can and they may be in danger due to this ban. The SD Retic's on the other hand get no bigger than a large king snake.

---

Personally, I can't agree with the idea of suggesting to the government that it's "ok" to take some animals if they'll leave others alone if the result is that responsible pet owners will be able to continue to own those animals and not be allowed to share the same liberties that other pet owners can. There is actually a potential constitutional challenge hidden in that idea, but that's a whole different story.

Also understand at least with the legislative process for HR2811 & S373 that "giving them something" is endorsing the idea that the USGS report is correct ... the politicians logic is that if the report is wrong as we claim it is, why would we compromise? Once we put our stamp of approval on banning "some" animals it will open the door for our opponents to justify banning many more in the future.

If we compromise every time the groups that seek to end the ownership of these animals come at us, how long until we give it all away? How many times do we "compromise" before we chose to draw our line in the sand? How many pet owners that have done nothing wrong have to suck it up and be screwed over to save someone elses pets? Who gets to decide who loses their animals for each compromise and who gets to keep them?

I say we draw our line in the sand today ... right now ... they are afraid of us, the USFWS announcement proves it. They thought that 669, 2811, & 373 would be "easy" to get through, they weren't ... we disrupted their plans in a big way and we're only starting to get organized. If we hold our ground we can win and come out the other side even stronger.

We must fight tooth and nail to make sure that the only way these animals should ever be listed as injurious is via the regulatory listing process. We must be united in our belief that no matter what species you keep, what message board you hang out on, who your favorite breeder is, or what group you support for fighting the laws that people that own pets responsibly, who are doing the right thing, obeying the law, and taking the best care of the animals in their lives should not be stripped of those freedoms ... ever.

Respectfully,
-adam

I never meant that people should send nast letters to the US F&W, but if they receive thousands of e-mails discussing how important these animals and the ability to transport them are to us, they may be more accepting of real scientific process.

I stand behind my request. I think people need to write and indicate that many boas don't get much more than 5' (average), that it is important to your hobby or business to be able to transport across state lines (for buying or selling) and that the reptile community demands scientific process.

Thank you to all that have read my post!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jsschrei

I never meant that people should send nast letters to the US F&W

---

I don't see where I suggested that you did. I apologize if you misunderstood what I posted. My concern was over the word "Inundate" that you used in the subject of your post. You're certainly free to do what you want, but as someone who has the privilege of being directly involved in the processes in Washington DC with regards to this ban, I personally don't feel that a campaign to "Inundate" USFWS with emails at this point would be helpful ... and could actually turn out to make things more difficult for the leadership of USARK & PIJAC as well as other organizations who are all just starting the work of coordinating with USFWS on this issue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jsschrei

but if they receive thousands of e-mails discussing how important these animals and the ability to transport them are to us, they may be more accepting of real scientific process.

---

Or, an alternative point of view is that the USFW service believes that they have a proven track record of conducting "real scientific processes" because that is what they are mandated to do by the DOI and the US Congress. An email campaign right out of the gate before they've had a chance to sit down at the table and discuss the issues with all parties might just piss them off ... but that's just one mans point of view for whatever it's worth.

This process is certainly not smash mouth football ... it's more like chess ... with Wednesdays announcement we just got a clean board and a chance to start again with all of our pieces back ... in chess, you never go for check mate on your first move. In my opinion it would be wise to be patient and let the process unfold a little more. In theory, this could happen quickly or could take months or even a year. USFW hasn't even issued the proposal yet.

If there is a time when a massive email campaign is needed, I am positive that everyone will be called on by USARK to make that happen. Until that time, efforts like you are describing could end up not achieving their intended result.

I am not trying to be critical of anyone's efforts, thoughts, or feelings and I apologize of the text on an internet message board makes my words appear that way ... I'm only trying to share my unique perspective on this issue with anyone who is interested in order to help us all be successful.

-adam

I understand and respect all of your views on this but it does bring about a little more fear of the outcome. As for emails and letters, I haven't sent any yet (since the new update) and I dont plan to until as you say, we give them a chance to update us. We will after all, have that 2 months to respond. I do have to agree with you there.

I do have one question though. I do not live in FL so I'm not sure what it means that the bill was passed by senator nelson there. Im aware that we were now just waiting for the decision of congress/senate, but does this new update mean that even FL has to now wait?

Does it mean the state of FL has instituted this new ban? Or do they have to wait for the ultimate outcome of these new studies..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

I do have one question though. I do not live in FL so I'm not sure what it means that the bill was passed by senator nelson there.

---

Senator Nelson is a United States Senator not a Florida State Senator. He has no authority to pass any bills in Florida.

There have been no bills passed by Nelson or anyone else regarding these nine specific species of so called invasive snakes either in Florida or on the National level recently. The last Florida bill that I'm aware of has to do with the Reptiles of Concern permit system that went into effect 2 years ago.

Hope this helps.

-adam

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Sand boas? Are they to be banned?? Rainbow boas? Ground boas? Rosey boas? Thats just rediculas!

---

Adam has already addressed a lot of the concerns I had in this thread, so I just wanted to clear this one up.

None of the bills proposed so far will have any effect on the species in the quote box above.

The bill specifically addresses "boa constrictors". This is all boa constrictors that are referred to as "redtail boas" and more specifically, all of the subspecies like:
Boa Constrictor Constrictor
Boa Constrictor Imperator
Boa Constrictor Occidentalis
Boa Constrictor Amarali
Boa Constrictor Longicauda
Boa Constrictor Sabogae
Boa Constrictor Orophias
Boa Constrictor Nebulosus
etc..

As was referred to earlier, some of these do not reach lengths longer than 5' and most don't reach longer than 7' with any regularity.

Hope that helps,
jb

These are quotes from the press release:

“The Burmese python and these other alien snakes are destroying some of our nation’s most treasured – and most fragile – ecosystems,” Salazar said. “The Interior Department and states such as Florida are taking swift and common sense action to control and eliminate the populations of these snakes, but it is an uphill battle in ecosystems where they have no natural predators. If we are going to succeed, we must shut down the importation of the snakes and end the interstate commerce and transportation of them.”

“Our wildlife inspectors are the front line of defense for the nation, combating illegal wildlife trafficking and preventing the importation of countless species of illegal injurious wildlife. This proposal will give them an additional tool to restrict imports that are causing significant ecological and economic damage, while giving our law enforcement agents the ability to restrict the spread of these species within our borders,” said U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service Director Sam Hamilton.

Salazar said he has directed the Fish and Wildlife Service to conduct a comprehensive review of existing legal and regulatory authorities to address the invasive species issue on a broader scale.

Perhaps the word "inundate" is causing some debate over my request for folks to write to the US F&W, but the comments made by the director of the interior and the US F&W Director sound as if they have a very specific agenda- find a way to prove the ecosystems needs protection against our pets. The US F&W is speaking as if they support the proposal- or have even written it. So I'll change my request to- please contact the US F&W and let them know you are a responsible reptile owner, depend on interstate transport and support scientific process.

So far we've waited to speak up until some government constituency pressures us to defend. I see no harm in voicing our opinions and concerns. If the US F&W is proud of their functioning on scientific method, fantastic. But I think they may also appreciate hearing from the constituents of the public that will applaud them for it.

I have sent my letter. I expressed my feelings in regards to these species as well as my support for true scientific process on which the consideration of this proposal should be made.

Thank you for reading my post.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jsschrei

I see no harm in voicing our opinions and concerns.

---

And as I stated multiple times, neither do I.

But, I think what you are having trouble understanding is that there are delicate and positive negotiations taking place behind the scenes by the professional organizations that represent reptile keepers and pet owners and how poorly timed large scale grass roots efforts could negatively effect those negotiations.

Secretary Salazar is a member of the Presidents Cabinet. His public statements were made for effect, but in the end he has absolutely nothing to do with this process. Many of the people in USFWS that will be directly involved with the process are actually on our side. My concern is that a misguided effort could have a negative effect on their support.

So like I said, send an email expressing your concerns ... that's a good thing. Harassing USFWS with tons of emails day in and day out that say the same thing from the same people for the next three, four, six, or ten+ months could do more harm than good in the opinion of the people that have to sit down across the table in person with USFWS and make sure things proceed in our favor.

If the time comes that such action is needed and will be helpful, I guarantee that USARK and PIJAC will organize it.

-adam