My BP has stopped eating for no reason. Please help!

I'm sorry this is long! In case you're too busy to read the whole thing, the gist of the thread is in the title. But if you'd like to read on....

I have had my beautiful ball python Pandora since last summer, and not once have I experienced any sort of problem feeding her. She was a little over a year when I bought her, and never gave the previous owner any problems with feeding, either. I feed her once a week with a live mouse (she's only ever had live mice), and she's usually in the feeding container for less than two minutes before she strikes and eats (sometimes she strikes almost instantaneously).

Now it has been over two weeks. Last Saturday, over a week ago, I bought a mouse and proceeded as normal. I put the mouse in the container, and then put Pandora in. She got into her usual S-pose and seemed about ready to strike. But the mouse started crawling on her, and it seemed to freak her out. She completely lost interest in the mouse. This has happened before, so I left her in there a while, thinking it would work itself out. But after a while when Pandora was clearly trying to get me to take her out of the container, I eventually gave up and took her out, thinking that I'd get her to eat later.

The mouse died overnight, I think because it got too cold for it, and I (obviously) didn't have the proper housing for it since I'm not used to keeping the mice for longer than 10 minutes. We waited until Tuesday to buy another mouse, as I thought that maybe she just hadn't been hungry, and I knew that the mouse had freaked her out.

Well, I have had this mouse from Tuesday until today. I've been alternating the heat lamp with Pandora's terrarium and the feeding container to keep the mouse from freezing to death, and it's been a severe PITA keeping this thing. I just wish she'd eat it, but I try each day for her to feed, and each day she just slides right past the mouse and tries to get out. It's as if she doesn't view the mice as food anymore.

What should I do??? I feel so terrible, not knowing how I can make her feel okay around the mice again. Any suggestions?

Is the temp stable for your bps cage? How cold is the room where a mouse would die? The snake may just be fasting, very common in BP's, make sure the temps are correct, hides are tight and the same and keep offering her a mouse once a week. If she starts losing weight than worry but a couple weeks without food is not a big deal. Mine just got over a 2.5 month fast.

Well, 2 weeks is nothing to bat an eye at with an adult BP. They can go many months without eating as long as they have fresh water.

The first problem I notice is that you are feeding her one mouse. One mouse is a good sized meal for a one month old snake, not an adult BP. You should be feeding her small rats at the least.

If your snake refuses a meal, just wait until the next schedules feeding day. Offering food earlier than that will just cause the animal to get more stressed.

Try feeding the snake in its home enclosure. She might just not feel secure in the other container.

If the room is so cold that a mouse would FREEZE to death, what are the temps in your BPs enclosure? How are you measuring your temps? Are you only using a heat lamp?

What kind of hides does the snake have?

Thank you for your responses! My BP's enclosure is always stable. I have an under-tank heating pad on one side of the tank, which gives her somewhere warm to hide during the night, and I keep the heat lamp on during the day on the other side of the tank. The thermometer measures between 65-72 at night (warmer over the pad), and between 84-91 during the day on the hot side of the tank (cooler on the other side).

I didn't know that I should be feeding her small rats already. The man from the pet store who sold her to me said that she wasn't big enough for rats yet. She's about 2.5 feet long, and about 1.25 inches in diameter at her thickest point.

I believe the reason the mouse died was because all I could do was leave it in a cold, dark container with the lid on during the night, without any way of heating it. The temperature probably got very cold down near the floor, which is where the container was resting. However, I don't know if that's the real reason it died. The mouse in general didn't act like the other mice that we bring home. It acted almost like it was very old, or possibly sick. My husband and I wondered if that was why Pandora wouldn't eat it. But when she didn't eat the second, younger mouse the next week, I started to think that we had a real feeding problem on our hands.

I also wasn't aware that BPs would randomly go on fasts. Thanks for sharing! She hasn't been acting agitated or anything. In fact, besides not eating at her regular intervals, she seems very normal. She still wants out of her terrarium about once a day, and she loves touching my face with hers and curling around my arm to rest. So, overall, she doesn't act like she's feeling restless or irritable. She's never once bitten me or acted nervous around me, for which I'm grateful. She's an absolutely wonderful BP and I love her to death, which is why I got so worried. I think I'm going to buy a small mouse cage just to keep a small rat on hand if she refuses it again. That way I don't feel so badly about how I'm keeping the rodent.

Again, thanks for all your advice! If she goes longer than a two months without eating, should I look into force-feeding? I really don't want to go there, but I will if it means her well-being.

Oh, and I almost forgot to answer your hides question: She has a long decorative log (not real wood) which is more than large enough to hide her completely, while being small enough that her sides can touch the walls of the hide to give her a sense of security. It's served its purpose very well, and she loves hanging out in there.

Force feeding should not be necessary for a snake that has shown that it can eat just fine on its own. I would only worry if she has started to loose considerable (more than 100-200g) amounts of weight. It might be worth your while to get s kitchen scale and weight the snake once every two weeks. Also, a scale also helps with feeding. I feed around 10-15% of the snakes body weight until the snake is about 800g and then I just feed small rats.

Your temps worry me a little bit though. You shouldn't really have a night drop. The range of your temps leads me to believe you aren't using a digital thermometer with a probe. I would definitely invest in a digital thermometer and hygrometer. The home depot, lowes, and walmart sells the accurite weather station which measures indoor temp, outdoor temp, and indoor humidity.

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Originally Posted by Krissandra

Thank you for your responses! My BP's enclosure is always stable. I have an under-tank heating pad on one side of the tank, which gives her somewhere warm to hide during the night, and I keep the heat lamp on during the day on the other side of the tank. The thermometer measures between 65-72 at night (warmer over the pad), and between 84-91 during the day on the hot side of the tank (cooler on the other side).

I didn't know that I should be feeding her small rats already. The man from the pet store who sold her to me said that she wasn't big enough for rats yet. She's about 2.5 feet long, and about 1.25 inches in diameter at her thickest point.

I believe the reason the mouse died was because all I could do was leave it in a cold, dark container with the lid on during the night, without any way of heating it. The temperature probably got very cold down near the floor, which is where the container was resting. However, I don't know if that's the real reason it died. The mouse in general didn't act like the other mice that we bring home.If it was sick in some way, there is a chance that your BP refused it because it didn't quite smell right. It acted almost like it was very old, or possibly sick. My husband and I wondered if that was why Pandora wouldn't eat it. But when she didn't eat the second, younger mouse the next week, I started to think that we had a real feeding problem on our hands.

I also wasn't aware that BPs would randomly go on fasts. Thanks for sharing! She hasn't been acting agitated or anything. In fact, besides not eating at her regular intervals, she seems very normal. She still wants out of her terrarium about once a day, and she loves touching my face with hers and curling around my arm to rest. So, overall, she doesn't act like she's feeling restless or irritable. She's never once bitten me or acted nervous around me, for which I'm grateful. She's an absolutely wonderful BP and I love her to death, which is why I got so worried. I think I'm going to buy a small mouse cage just to keep a small rat on hand if she refuses it again. That way I don't feel so badly about how I'm keeping the rodent.

Again, thanks for all your advice! If she goes longer than a two months without eating, should I look into force-feeding? I really don't want to go there, but I will if it means her well-being.

Oh, and I almost forgot to answer your hides question: She has a long decorative log (not real wood) which is more than large enough to hide her completely, while being small enough that her sides can touch the walls of the hide to give her a sense of security. It's served its purpose very well, and she loves hanging out in there.

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Large is not a good thing for a B.P. You gotta remember that in the wild they would be burrowed into a nice little termite den, nice and cozy. They feel most comfortable in a dark, close hide. One on the warm side and one on the cool side is best.

Also keep in mind BPs might go off feed during the winter months. Mine have been on and off these months. Specialy bad with all these cold fronts these year. I gave up trying to get them to eat regularly, the cold fronts got the best of me. If they eat they eat, if not wait till next week and try agian. :)

The only one eating regularly is the little baby spider.

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Originally Posted by Danounet

Also keep in mind BPs might go off feed during the winter months. Mine have been on and off these months. Specialy bad with all these cold fronts these year. I gave up trying to get them to eat regularly, the cold fronts got the best of me. If they eat they eat, if not wait till next week and try agian. :)

The only one eating regularly is the little baby spider.

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Exactly. Another very good point. First make sure your hot side temps are up to par as well as the size of the enclosure and it has enough hides to feel at home. After you dial in ur temps if there all good consider this time of year the on and off feed due to the breeding season. Like i have said in threads before. I have males\females that are pounding food weekly and i have males\females who have gone off feed since breeding season started. There are so many reasons why it might not be eating that you have to tackle the basics first. Hope that helps a little. I know it gets frustrating but once you get use to it, it wont bother you as much. I always have a little bit of worry but soon as the temps outside start warming up they go back on feed. Or at least thats what ive noticed in my years of keeping the bps.

Thank you again, everybody. :)

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Large is not a good thing for a B.P. You gotta remember that in the wild they would be burrowed into a nice little termite den, nice and cozy. They feel most comfortable in a dark, close hide. One on the warm side and one on the cool side is best.

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I don't think that it's too large, but I may be wrong. I took this picture just now of her hide (she's currently lying on top, which she likes to do) to give you all an idea of how big it is. Too big? This is the same hide that I've used from the first week that I got her. She is still in a 10-gallon enclosure, which I plan on updating within the next few months to a 30-gallon with multiple hides now that she's grown a little bigger. Anyway, the left side of the fake log narrows down to a much smaller space than the opening. Does it still seem too big/open?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...ress/004-6.jpg

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Force feeding should not be necessary for a snake that has shown that it can eat just fine on its own. I would only worry if she has started to loose considerable (more than 100-200g) amounts of weight. It might be worth your while to get s kitchen scale and weight the snake once every two weeks. Also, a scale also helps with feeding. I feed around 10-15% of the snakes body weight until the snake is about 800g and then I just feed small rats.

Your temps worry me a little bit though. You shouldn't really have a night drop. The range of your temps leads me to believe you aren't using a digital thermometer with a probe. I would definitely invest in a digital thermometer and hygrometer. The home depot, lowes, and walmart sells the accurite weather station which measures indoor temp, outdoor temp, and indoor humidity.

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Thanks for all this information! I'll have to look into these things immediately. I had only bought the things which the man at the pet store recommended since he seemed to know what he was talking about. He told me that her terrarium temps would be stable if I used the heat pad at night, and both the heat pad and lamp during the day. I mist the tank daily to help with humidity, but I really like the idea of a hydrometer so that I know whether or not it's being adequately humidified.

Hi,

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Originally Posted by Krissandra

The thermometer measures between 65-72 at night (warmer over the pad), and between 84-91 during the day on the hot side of the tank (cooler on the other side).

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Those temps are really worrying.

How are you measuring them and can you tell us the temps in the hide over his pad at night and during the day?

You should really be shooting for a warm side of 90-93f 24/7 and a cool side of 80-82f also 24/7.


dr del

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Those temps are really worrying.

How are you measuring them and can you tell us the temps in the hide over his pad at night and during the day?

You should really be shooting for a warm side of 90-93f 24/7 and a cool side of 80-82f also 24/7.

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I only use the thermometer which you see above her hide. It has a range so that you can get a good idea of what the temp is on both sides of the enclosure. Again, this is just what the pet store manager suggested. He's supposed to be really good with reptiles, but I'm starting to question his "expertise" now that you're all saying that I'm doing it wrong. LoL. But I'm just glad that I'm able to fix things now that I know how. I did do research in the beginning for stable BP enclosure temps, and I remember reading a source that recommended the temps that I've been keeping track of. It said that a night temp of around 70 degrees F was best, so I just listened to it. Now I wish I'd read further. Thank you for your temps! I would have never known to change that. How can I keep her tank that warm at night without using a light source? I don't want to interrupt her day/night cycles by using a lamp at night. What do you use? I've read that heating rocks aren't safe with BPs since they burn too easily.

Ah,

That thermometer strip is slightly worse than useless I'm afraid. :(

It only reads the temp of the glass.

We normally recommend the acurite digital weatherstation with probe - it reads the temp and humidity at the base unit and has a probe that reads a second temp.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x...ty/Acurite.jpg

They sell for about $12 in wallmart and online.

Until you have an accurate way to measure the temps in the various places in your tank it is going to be a bit tricky to give advice. :(

Hot rocks are definately bad - but you can use red lights for 24 hour heat. :gj:

How are you controling the heat mat? Some brands can get up to 120f which is hot enough to burn the snake if they aren't controled in some way.

We normally recommend a thermostat but if your room temps are really stable you might be able to get away with using dimmer switches.


dr del

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Originally Posted by Krissandra

I only use the thermometer which you see above her hide. It has a range so that you can get a good idea of what the temp is on both sides of the enclosure. Again, this is just what the pet store manager suggested. He's supposed to be really good with reptiles, but I'm starting to question his "expertise" now that you're all saying that I'm doing it wrong. LoL. But I'm just glad that I'm able to fix things now that I know how. I did do research in the beginning for stable BP enclosure temps, and I remember reading a source that recommended the temps that I've been keeping track of. It said that a night temp of around 70 degrees F was best, so I just listened to it. Now I wish I'd read further. Thank you for your temps! I would have never known to change that. How can I keep her tank that warm at night without using a light source? I don't want to interrupt her day/night cycles by using a lamp at night. What do you use? I've read that heating rocks aren't safe with BPs since they burn too easily.

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keep the cool side low 80s(if it dips to high 70s you shoudlnt have a problem but try to keep it at low 80s) Hot side keep at 88-91 degrees at all times. Use a temp gun or digital thermometer(my digital thermometer reads 4 degrees cooler than my temp gun at all times). I have my snakes in a rack system so i have the digital thermo on the hot side in one of the middle tubs and add 4 degrees to it. Mind you i always add and subtract a degree or two depending on the tub in the rack. Mind you i check the temps multiple times a day bc i am very anal with my animals. Never had a problem so far. Also different parts of the rack will be hotter or cooler than others so its a good thing to get the temp gun and hit all the areas in the enclosure at the very least once a day to make sure your within range. you will want to check the temps with the gun more often if the snake is in a room that flucuates frequently during the day and night. my room stays at min 74 but normally stays around 75-76 degrees at night and a max of 80 during the day.

Wow, that digital weatherstation is very well-priced! I'm glad that it's not expensive, being that we're expecting our first and money has been a little tight as we prepare for his arrival this spring. :banana: (I'm very excited, LOL.)

My room definitely fluctuates in temp... Should I buy two thermometers---one for each end of the tank? Or is that what the probe is for? I've always taken very good care of my animals, so I'm really bothered that I've been doing it wrong all this time. I spent a lot of money on things which don't seem to be doing the job that they need to be doing, and that upsets me very much. I might just have to drive down to that pet store and yell at that man.

The heating pad is a stick-on substrate heater that is permanently attached to the bottom of the terrarium. It has no adjuster, since it's supposed to be at a constant temperature. I keep a semi-thick layer of substrate over it at all times to prevent burning, and the only way that I've been able to determine that it's not making that area burning-hot is by testing the area with my fingers. It always just feels nice and warm. The substrate heater is called "Heat Wave" by Exo-Terra. It's 8-by-8 inches and is supposed to heat evenly.

I really like the red lamp idea. That sounds perfect! I'll have to buy one as soon as possible, along with this new thermometer. It makes me happy that I can improve her habitat drastically. She seems very healthy, so I'm glad that I haven't unintentionally hurt her thus far.

Thanks again, everyone!! :bow:

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Originally Posted by Krissandra

Wow, that digital weatherstation is very well-priced! I'm glad that it's not expensive, being that we're expecting our first and money has been a little tight as we prepare for his arrival this spring. :banana: (I'm very excited, LOL.)

My room definitely fluctuates in temp... Should I buy two thermometers---one for each end of the tank? Or is that what the probe is for? I've always taken very good care of my animals, so I'm really bothered that I've been doing it wrong all this time. I spent a lot of money on things which don't seem to be doing the job that they need to be doing, and that upsets me very much. I might just have to drive down to that pet store and yell at that man.

The heating pad is a stick-on substrate heater that is permanently attached to the bottom of the terrarium. It has no adjuster, since it's supposed to be at a constant temperature. I keep a semi-thick layer of substrate over it at all times to prevent burning, and the only way that I've been able to determine that it's not making that area burning-hot is by testing the area with my fingers. It always just feels nice and warm. The substrate heater is called "Heat Wave" by Exo-Terra. It's 8-by-8 inches and is supposed to heat evenly.

I really like the red lamp idea. That sounds perfect! I'll have to buy one as soon as possible, along with this new thermometer. It makes me happy that I can improve her habitat drastically. She seems very healthy, so I'm glad that I haven't unintentionally hurt her thus far.

Thanks again, everyone!! :bow:

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what feels warm to us is almost always to hot for a snake. Get yourself a thermostat asap and hook it up to the uth. Set it to the proper temp in the range of 88-91 degrees and get yourself either a temp gun or digital thermometer. I prefer the temp gun to be honest. It has never let me down yet. Also you can run a 40 watt night bulb during the day and night to keep the ambient temps up in the tank. It should heat your cool side up to where it needs to be. IF your gonna get a digital thermo make sure you get two. Have one on the hot side in the middle under a little bit of bedding so the snake doesnt come into contact with it and put one in the middle of the cool side. This way you can always monitor the temps and see if there needs to be any adjusting to be made. Also i never trust any1 in a pet store unless its my local reptile shop. Other than that pet co,petland etc. workers tend to be the people who think they know it all because they work at a pet place but really dont know what there talking about. You wouldnt believe some of the things theyve told me over the years. Luckly ive been keeping reptiles for 10 years now.

I got my ball python for Christmas. It ate for the first time yesterday. It was 4 weeks before it ate. They'll be all mellow and comfortable for as long as they want. But when they are hungry you better believe they're gunna eat without hesitation. Just try once a week and when its hungry its gunna eat for you. Dont worry. I also heard that they dont eat as much in the winter cuz they internally know when its cold outside even though their tanks arent. Kind of like a hibernation stage.

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Originally Posted by cweimer4

I got my ball python for Christmas. It ate for the first time yesterday. It was 4 weeks before it ate. They'll be all mellow and comfortable for as long as they want. But when they are hungry you better believe they're gunna eat without hesitation. Just try once a week and when its hungry its gunna eat for you. Dont worry. I also heard that they dont eat as much in the winter cuz they internally know when its cold outside even though their tanks arent. Kind of like a hibernation stage.

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you are correct. they tend to go off feed for breeding season(the winter months) and go back on fed as it warms up. Some may or may not go off feed.

This thread has been extremely helpful and enlightening. I'm glad I decided to come here instead of asking the pet store where I got her.

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Originally Posted by Krissandra

This thread has been extremely helpful and enlightening. I'm glad I decided to come here instead of asking the pet store where I got her.

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you made a very good choice in coming here and asking questions. There are a number of breeders as well as die hard bp fans on here that can point you in the right direction. :snake::gj:

Oh! One last question! What does "uth" stand for? It was mentioned here:

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what feels warm to us is almost always to hot for a snake. Get yourself a thermostat asap and hook it up to the uth.

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UTH = Under Tank Heater

If you can't find/afford a thermostat right now, get a plug in lamp dimmer from Lowes/Home Depot. Stick the probe of the accurite thermometer onto the glass where the UTH is, and adjust the dimmer accordingly,

Nixie

All right, thank you! :)

Hi,

Just to clarify something - use a couple of dabs from a hot glue gun or low tack painters tape to stick anything inside a snakes enclosure.

Tape + snakes is a horrifically bad idea.


dr del

Whenever I see a thread like this, I remember when I first hit these forums knowing nothing about BPs and with a little cute few months old BP in my hands.

Thanks everyone again here for teaching me everything I know today :gj: