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Chocolates & Sables

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  • 01-04-2010, 10:08 AM
    abi21491
    Chocolates & Sables
    I have been searching the internet for pictures of these two morphs, with very little luck. I would like to see baby and adult pictures, as well as belly shots if possible. So post your sables and chocolates everyone! Thanks in advance :)
  • 01-04-2010, 01:17 PM
    AnthonyCaponetto
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    They're very similar...kinda like cinnamons and black pastels. The sable would be the black pastel in this scenario...they seem to be a bit darker in the black part of the pattern.

    The biggest difference I've seen is in the mojave sable. It looks totally different than the mojave chocolate...not sure where I saw the mojave chocolate, but it wasn't nearly as dark as the sable version.

    I have some neat light colored sables in my gallery here that you can look at. Pics of them as babies and as two year olds...and there's also a pic of their mom.
  • 01-04-2010, 02:51 PM
    Louis Kirkland
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
  • 01-05-2010, 08:40 AM
    RandyRemington
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by AnthonyCaponetto View Post
    ...not sure where I saw the mojave chocolate, but it wasn't nearly as dark as the sable version...

    If you find either picture I'd be interested in seeing them.

    I've got a combo that MIGHT be a chocolate mojave. It's my own chocolate like line I'm calling Garcia. Haven't produced a super or bred it to proven line chocolate yet so not sure what it is.

    http://snakemorphs.com/collection/im...d_11months.jpg

    I think I saw a post from JasBalls of a mojave chocolate once but also not sure if his chocolate is from one of the established lines or not.
  • 01-05-2010, 08:42 AM
    abi21491
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    Thanks for the pics everyone :) Lovely animals!

    to anyone who stumbles upon this thread... Keep posting! :)
  • 01-07-2010, 08:56 PM
    AnthonyCaponetto
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RandyRemington View Post
    If you find either picture I'd be interested in seeing them.

    I've got a combo that MIGHT be a chocolate mojave. It's my own chocolate like line I'm calling Garcia. Haven't produced a super or bred it to proven line chocolate yet so not sure what it is.

    http://snakemorphs.com/collection/im...d_11months.jpg

    I think I saw a post from JasBalls of a mojave chocolate once but also not sure if his chocolate is from one of the established lines or not.

    You know...that may have been the one I saw. If someone called it a Chocolate Mojave, I probably just assumed...didn't think about the fact there are probably several lines floating around by now. If I find it, I'll be sure to save it.

    Now that's an interesting snake...judging by the line down the back and the deeper color, I'd say you have some kinda sable/chocolate type gene over there. Was it as dark as the mojave sables as a baby, or about the same?

    About ID'ing sables...the easiest way for me to ID sables that I produce (especially with combos or lighter ones like the ones I made) is the belly. They have a really dark wash on the belly...much more of it and much darker than the faded black you see on a normal belly.
  • 01-07-2010, 09:08 PM
    RandyRemington
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    Where can I see the mojave sable pictures?

    Here is my Garcia Mojave baby pic:

    http://snakemorphs.com/images/F08MMVT01_med_ps.jpg

    Here is the Garcia mom and sister:

    http://snakemorphs.com/images/ZMomDaughter_ssm.jpg
  • 01-07-2010, 09:40 PM
    coldbloodaddict
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    Here Ya go Randy...

    Mojave Sables
    http://www.coldbloodedaddiction.com/...lpythons&id=61
  • 01-08-2010, 12:09 AM
    SUPERBALLS
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    Heres a nice update pic of my chocolate from Randys line, hes looking great and has breed quite a few ladys already this year!!!!:D
    https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...6/dsc00248.jpg
  • 01-08-2010, 12:13 AM
    Sloanreptiles
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by SUPERBALLS View Post
    Heres a nice update pic of my chocolate from Randys line, hes looking great and has breed quite a few ladys already this year!!!!:D
    https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...6/dsc00248.jpg

    Thats not a proven line yet is it? Because I know Marshall has a couple and he said they don't know exactly what they are yet.:confused:
  • 01-08-2010, 12:20 AM
    Southernshooter
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    To everyone that posted [ics, Their beautiful snakes and pics
  • 01-08-2010, 01:01 AM
    RandyRemington
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    It's proven to be some type of dominant and several have commented that it looks like chocolate but I don't know where my founding female originated. I picked her up as a young adult at Reptile Haven in 2001 but Daniel Garcia was the first to get her to breed on a loan in 2007 (the daughter in the pic with the founding female was a nice one from that clutch but about half looked like mom). Here is a pic of that 2007 girl older:

    http://snakemorphs.com/collection/im..._med_2year.jpg

    Marshall Van Thorre bred the founder on a loan to a lesser and a mojave producing the Mojave Garcia in 2008. I finally took a turn for 2009 and did a terrible job (poor heating in the biggest cages at the top of my new snake room I think); most eggs went bad and all three hatchlings had open bellies. The nicest one of course didn't make it:

    http://snakemorphs.com/news/images/F09BREM01_med.jpg

    The other two I thought where normal girls with a little stress induced prettiness but now I'm not so sure. Looks like I decided too soon and wrong selling that male to SUPERBALLS and now might have to buy one back from him if Marshall doesn't produce me a male Garcia with this year's loan. Marshall has a Garcia son from 2008 and is trying for the super with the founding female right now. The 07 girl has even been locked up for me with her 08 half brother that I think is just a Mojave but lately I've been wondering what a chocolate lesser would look like. Not sure that 07 is fat enough to go as she is small compared to her mom (the 2008 clutch was 14).

    So, to answer your question, I would not consider them proven to be chocolates but hopefully we’ll see a super this year and have a better idea.
  • 01-08-2010, 01:38 AM
    Sloanreptiles
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RandyRemington View Post
    It's proven to be some type of dominant and several have commented that it looks like chocolate but I don't know where my founding female originated. I picked her up as a young adult at Reptile Haven in 2001 but Daniel Garcia was the first to get her to breed on a loan in 2007 (the daughter in the pic with the founding female was a nice one from that clutch but about half looked like mom). Here is a pic of that 2007 girl older:

    http://snakemorphs.com/collection/im..._med_2year.jpg

    Marshall Van Thorre bred the founder on a loan to a lesser and a mojave producing the Mojave Garcia in 2008. I finally took a turn for 2009 and did a terrible job (poor heating in the biggest cages at the top of my new snake room I think); most eggs went bad and all three hatchlings had open bellies. The nicest one of course didn't make it:

    http://snakemorphs.com/news/images/F09BREM01_med.jpg

    The other two I thought where normal girls with a little stress induced prettiness but now I'm not so sure. Looks like I decided too soon and wrong selling that male to SUPERBALLS and now might have to buy one back from him if Marshall doesn't produce me a male Garcia with this year's loan. Marshall has a Garcia son from 2008 and is trying for the super with the founding female right now. The 07 girl has even been locked up for me with her 08 half brother that I think is just a Mojave but lately I've been wondering what a chocolate lesser would look like. Not sure that 07 is fat enough to go as she is small compared to her mom (the 2008 clutch was 14).

    So, to answer your question, I would not consider them proven to be chocolates but hopefully we’ll see a super this year and have a better idea.

    Thanks Randy! We saw the ones Marshall had and they were pretty cool looking! Hopefully theres a super! I think if anything they are a whole different morph because that baby is crazy looking! Congrats on such a cool project!
  • 01-09-2010, 03:04 AM
    AnthonyCaponetto
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RandyRemington View Post
    It's proven to be some type of dominant and several have commented that it looks like chocolate but I don't know where my founding female originated. I picked her up as a young adult at Reptile Haven in 2001 but Daniel Garcia was the first to get her to breed on a loan in 2007 (the daughter in the pic with the founding female was a nice one from that clutch but about half looked like mom). Here is a pic of that 2007 girl older:

    http://snakemorphs.com/collection/im..._med_2year.jpg

    Marshall Van Thorre bred the founder on a loan to a lesser and a mojave producing the Mojave Garcia in 2008. I finally took a turn for 2009 and did a terrible job (poor heating in the biggest cages at the top of my new snake room I think); most eggs went bad and all three hatchlings had open bellies. The nicest one of course didn't make it:

    http://snakemorphs.com/news/images/F09BREM01_med.jpg

    The other two I thought where normal girls with a little stress induced prettiness but now I'm not so sure. Looks like I decided too soon and wrong selling that male to SUPERBALLS and now might have to buy one back from him if Marshall doesn't produce me a male Garcia with this year's loan. Marshall has a Garcia son from 2008 and is trying for the super with the founding female right now. The 07 girl has even been locked up for me with her 08 half brother that I think is just a Mojave but lately I've been wondering what a chocolate lesser would look like. Not sure that 07 is fat enough to go as she is small compared to her mom (the 2008 clutch was 14).

    So, to answer your question, I would not consider them proven to be chocolates but hopefully we’ll see a super this year and have a better idea.

    That snake in the top pic almost looks more like a black pastel/cinny/red axanthic complex type snake. The reddish tones in the black and the faded looking head just don't scream sable or chocolate to me. Honestly, I think you may have something a little cooler than sables or chocolates. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the super looks like, but you may have something pretty neat.
  • 01-09-2010, 10:32 AM
    RandyRemington
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    The two in my last post are pretty extreme examples. Remember that the last baby only survived a few days so I'm wondering if she might have been enhanced by a "classic jungle" syndrome (i.e. egg stress making a pretty snake). Maybe that's what a classic jungle chocolate looks like. I'd be fine with them being chocolates but mainly want to know and don't call them chocolates because I just don't know yet. It wiill still be hard to be sure they are the same even if the super does look like a homozygous chocolate but of course I’d love a nice surprise too.

    There has been some variation in the babies from the 07 bigger girl in my last pics to that 08 male I sold not recognizing the more classic chocolate look in him as a hatchling. It's also possible the 07 is a combo. Daniel's dad for that clutch throws some dark smoky babies.

    Will be fun to keep trying to figure this project out until the python police kick in my door or the economy gets so bad I have to eat them (sorry, a little extra cynicism before coffee).
  • 01-29-2010, 04:17 PM
    abi21491
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    Wow, I hadn't checked this thread till now but awesome animals everyone. Today I picked up a very interesting CH female that I believe could be some kind of morph. She looks similar to a Berry line chocolate but she has a completely clear belly and her eyes are greenish like a pastel. I can't resist dinker projects. When I get the pics uploaded I would post them here.
  • 01-30-2010, 06:41 AM
    abi21491
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
  • 01-30-2010, 11:31 AM
    RandyRemington
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    Very interesting, she does have the broad dark areas.
  • 01-30-2010, 11:47 AM
    abi21491
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    Quote:

    Originally Posted by RandyRemington View Post
    Very interesting, she does have the broad dark areas.

    I can't stop peaking in on her, lol! If I had some young normals to put her next to it would be really obvious, but I don't. Maybe when some clutches are laid I'll be able to do it then.
  • 01-30-2010, 06:51 PM
    EmberBall
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
    Randy, your adult female looks pretty cool. I got my original Sulfur and Ember females at Reptile Haven too:) As cool as your female looks, the name might be the worst Ball name yet.

    Good luck on the crosses and keep us posted.

    Dave
  • 01-31-2010, 07:46 AM
    abi21491
    Re: Chocolates & Sables
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