Finally.. PICTURES of my BP

Okay, so today I woke up early and went straight to shopping for my bp.. fist off was wal mart .. believe it or not i found EXACTLY what i was looking for first thing.. i got the thermometer.. its an ACURITE it has a wire that runs into the cage and sticks to the glass.. * I STUCK IT UNDER THE LIGHT and ABOVE THE UTH ABOUT 1.5" DOWN THE TANK * (in the pics if you look above the driftwood it is sticking behind the trees there, im using trees to cover the wire)

I bought FOAM poster board to go around the cage to help insulate it (it dont look the best in the world but you cant see it unless your moving the cage to look ill add pic's of that too) then on top of the cage I took the remaining poster board and wrapped it in foil except where the light is at.... to help with humidity/heat.

then i got him fake trees from wal mart as well... then off to the pet store to find my last few items.. it was hard finding one open on Sunday.. and i had to go to one that id rather have not gone to because of the unsanitary conditions. but i did it anyways to get a light bulb and cave...

i couldn't find a red bulb there but i went back to wal mart and got a "reptile rays ge brand black light night time heat lite" it states that it is for night time use with snakes and reptiles. HOPE THIS IS OKAY SINCE I COULDN'T GET A RED ONE?

i actually bought 2 caves i know i was supposed to get 2 of the same but they didnt have 2 of anything there.. so i got 2 different kinds... i really nice wood/bark tree trunk cave and a plain wood cave thingy (not really for a snake) all i could get to fit in the tank was the small one.. sooooo i did the best with what i had.

i do plan to get a new 20-30 Long tank sometime next month. so this is really just his "FOR THE MOMENT" cage..

anyway. her are the pic's of everything i done and you can all give me your 2 cents worth.. the thermometer reads 81.3 now so its a wee bit warmer but my humidity is STILL JUST AT 30%.. so im worried about that ive already misted once too and it didnt help any at all.... the thermometer's been in there for an hour now.


SO C'MON LET'S HEAR OPINIONS AND WHAT I STILL NEED TO DO

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...E/DSCF7187.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...E/DSCF7188.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...E/DSCF7189.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...E/DSCF7190.jpg

BEHIND THE TREES IS MY THEMOMETER

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...E/DSCF7191.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...E/DSCF7192.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...E/DSCF7193.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...E/DSCF7195.jpg

MY SUCKY ATTEMPT AT FOAM BOARD INSULATION

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...E/DSCF7196.jpg

RIGHT NOW IT IS READING 81.5 DEGREE AND ONLY 29% HUMIDITY

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...E/DSCF7198.jpg

The probe is only measuring one thing, the temperature of what it is stuck to. The ambient temp and humidity are measured by the device itself, so the whole device would need to be actually in the cage. That 30% humidity is outside of the cage.

Hope this helps,

I think you have done a wonderful job. Your animal is cute as a little pumpkin. I think the only thing I would say is that he/she could prob be in that cage for a while. It looks pretty young, so until it gets 3-4 feet, I can't imagine you needing to move up, but others may have more exact opinions on this.

The two hides look really good. The heat/humidity issue is always something that you will be tweaking. I just got my cages a thermostat for the under tank heaters and I feel like I have just recently got my humidity stable.

For a beginner, I think you have listened well and done an impressive job for your new little baby ball - so cute.

Welcome Home:gj:

okay i hit the button to read inside and outside and it NOW says inside is 74.1 and outside is 81.9 and humidity inside tank is 44% and 30 % in the house..

do i put the whole thing in the tank?? :confused: i was under the impression that i only put the wire in there and it would relay my "out" temp..

Ok, wait a minute....I have the exact same device and was told just the opposite...er...that I could place mine on the outside of the cage too....can you explain that again?

Maybe Kaorte said it was ok for me because I have a separate thermometer for the cages? Just want my set up to right too.

I learn something new every minute around here:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toddsbabygirl

okay i hit the button to read inside and outside and it NOW says inside is 74.1 and outside is 81.9 and humidity inside tank is 44% and 30 % in the house..

do i put the whole thing in the tank?? :confused: i was under the impression that i only put the wire in there and it would relay my "out" temp..

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Me too???

the ENTIRE unit goes in with the snake

okay i see now..
i just thought since i read both in and out temps that i left the unit outside.. will it bother the snake putting it inside? and WHERE do i place it at

SO SORRY IF IM CONFUSING YOU ALL. im just dumfounded myself.. this is my first snake and im a dum one at that with it.. lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hock3ymonk3y

the ENTIRE unit goes in with the snake

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Oh ok. Mine are mounted to the outside of the tank and it reads both the UTH and the inside of the enclosure. I have separate thermometers to 'double check' the probe and the ambient and ground temps. I was very happy to get all of those devices and wires out of the cages. My set up works just fine, but when I first got them, they were mounted on the inside and worked just fine.

also with all the readings on it..
after putting it in the cage does it need to read IN or OUT
i really lost on how to work this thing

it always says out temp in the middle and an option of in temp or clock on top and humidity on bottom

i only have the one thermometer as of now.. and i stuck the probe inside the tank on the WARM side but have the unit itself on top of cage

so if im reading this right i need to put the entire thing inside tank.. but when i do that which temp would be correct IN or OUT?

it wont bother the snake, it will just be another thing to pee on tho :/ lol i cant tell you from memory which one is in and which one is out, but if your probe is on the warm side and the unit is in the middle like recommended, the hotter one will be the probe.

Nic lookin' little BP you got there... :gj:
On the AccuRite, there is a small button marked "Temp/Clock". Press it and it will change the top display from the time to the indoor temp.
What I would recommend is putting the water bowl in the middle and putting one hide on each end, which will give a greater temperature gradient for thermo-regulation. Then place the AccuRite on the cool side, and run the probe over to the warm side and place it on the glass above the UTH. Then you can cover the whole wire up with substrate...

The "indoor" temp will be what the unit is reading on the cool side. The "Outdoor" temp will be what the probe is reading on the warm side...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toddsbabygirl

also with all the readings on it..
after putting it in the cage does it need to read IN or OUT
i really lost on how to work this thing

it always says out temp in the middle and an option of in temp or clock on top and humidity on bottom

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I understand your confusion. I can tell you that I was also directed to purchase that specific model of thermostat. I was told, or understood that the probe went on top of the UTH and that the device would read 2 measurements. The one in the middle was the probe and the one on the top was inside the enclosure. That must have been assuming the device was inside. When I clarified this, I was told that the device would read inside temps without the device being inside the cage. I took them out and mounted them to the outside of the tank. Now in all fairness, I have separate thermostats to read the same information, so that may be why I was told that.

I looked for Karote, but she's offline. Maybe others will chime in?

I velcro mine inside the cool side of the tank at ground level. The "inside" temps are the measurements of where the thermometer is actually placed. In the pictures - the "inside" temps are on top of your enclosure. The humidity is also where the thermometer is placed - again, your humidity is what's outside and on top of your cage.

I run the probe and sit it ON TOP of the substrate inside the warm side hide, since you want to measure temps on the warm side where your animal actually is laying. That is your "outside" temps.

If you have it mounted outside your cage, you're only using 1/3rd of its capability. Put it inside and you measure cool side (inside), warm side (outside) AND humidity.

The way it is now - the only in tank measurement that you are getting is where you have your probe.

OKAY,
here is what ive done now.... i have the probe attached to the side of the tank (warm side) on the side of the tank above the UTH.. the unit is on cool side ontop of cave

HERE ARE MY PIC'S..

do i need to move the probe directly ontop of uth??? the UTH is under the tank but the probe is on side of glass approx 2" directly above the UTH


http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...6/DSCF7202.jpg


http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...6/DSCF7203.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toddsbabygirl

OKAY,
here is what ive done now.... i have the probe attached to the side of the tank (warm side) on the side of the tank above the UTH.. the unit is on cool side ontop of cave

HERE ARE MY PIC'S..

do i need to move the probe directly ontop of uth??? the UTH is under the tank but the probe is on side of glass approx 2" directly above the UTH


http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...6/DSCF7202.jpg


http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...6/DSCF7203.jpg

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The only reason my probe was on the UTH is because I bought a thermostat and I needed to regulate the temps. You may have to do that eventually, but not now. I think the probe is supposed to be where the animal will be. I don't know if 2 inches above the glass is right. I thought it needed to be above or below the substrate over the UTH, but not on the side glass. Is that what you meant? Rabertnet(sp) did a good job of explaining it I think, but I would question where you have the probe is placed.

now that i moved it inside my readings are as follows

inside 75.2
outside 80.2
humidity 31%


i still think the humidity should be higher but im not sure .. and it still may be going up because the temps just changed

if you look at the pic you can see (on left of tank) the wire in the trees.. thats where the probe is at and the uth is directly under that

i dont have a thermostat YET but will get one sometime

Your setup is looking great. here is what I have done with my thermometers.

Place unit inside tank on "cool side", I have mine suction cupped to the back side of the tank. This reads the relative humidity in the air of the tank, along with the ambient temps ("inside" temp). The probe is stuck on the glass, under the substrate, directly on the UTH. This is so I can see what the hottest temps that the snakes (I have 2 tanks, therefore 2 thermometers), can ever touch. These are connected to lamp dimmer switches until I can get thermostats.

Having the probe directly on the glass of the UTH is an advantage for me, that way if the substrate gets moved off of the glass, or the snake burrows (as my corn snake likes to do), I know the temps of the UTH and to set them where the snakes will not get burnt or "cooked".

Other than that...it is looking GREAT!!!!

Chelsea

Okay lets get the thermometer confusion out of the way.

The probe goes on your hot side, under the substrate, right on the glass where the UTH is.

The rest of the unit goes on the side opposite the UTH or the "cool side". This should also be the side where you put the supplemental heat lamp if necessary.


You are right though, your humidity is too low, probably due to the heat lamp. I would mist the enclosure and that should help although humidity is most important during a shed cycle.

i did mist it once.. the highest ive gotten it to is 32% an its staying at that..

should i put tinfoil over the top just leaving a hole for the light? instead of the way my foil is?


or should i also JUST USE A NIGHT TIME BLACK LIGHT

okay, i see a SMALL improvement i covered half of the tank that has the foam poster board on it with foil and misted once more and now i have a reading of 42% 7% just from what i did should i do plastic and not foil

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaorte

Okay lets get the thermometer confusion out of the way.

The probe goes on your hot side, under the substrate, right on the glass where the UTH is.

The rest of the unit goes on the side opposite the UTH or the "cool side". This should also be the side where you put the supplemental heat lamp if necessary.


You are right though, your humidity is too low, probably due to the heat lamp. I would mist the enclosure and that should help although humidity is most important during a shed cycle.

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I never place the probe directly on the glass - I place it on top of the substrate under the warm side hide. I want to measure where the snake is actually receiving the heat (on top of the substrate) not the temps underneath the substrate. None of mine ever burrowed, so that was never an issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toddsbabygirl

okay, i see a SMALL improvement i covered half of the tank that has the foam poster board on it with foil and misted once more and now i have a reading of 42% 7% just from what i did should i do plastic and not foil

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The humidity issue is a challenge for many. I finally had to get a very large water bowl, punch bowl, and cover the cage with wet towels and mist. THEN I got the humidity to 60%.
I find that its most essential when they are going into shed - but thats a whole other topic.
I think you have done a fine job so far though!!!

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y14...e/100_1098.jpg

Picture is how i set up the accurite in tanks for larger snakes. The boa is a display snake there for he gets a nice big cage.

Dont forget 2 identical hides for him to feel secure.

keep him at 80-84 cool side and 90-94 warm side at all times.

WOW! Your tank looks really great. I'm impressed. I know you're proud of your new baby too. Great looking BP. Thanks for sharing with us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rabernet

I never place the probe directly on the glass - I place it on top of the substrate under the warm side hide. I want to measure where the snake is actually receiving the heat (on top of the substrate) not the temps underneath the substrate. None of mine ever burrowed, so that was never an issue.

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i used to do that too but i noticed that they were always moving the bedding and laying right on the bottom of the cage so i now put it on the cage so i know the highest temps that they can get to in the cage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by joHtoD3

WOW! Your tank looks really great. I'm impressed. I know you're proud of your new baby too. Great looking BP. Thanks for sharing with us.

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THANKS
its really not cost as much as i first thought that it would.
my only issue is this darn humidity.. im at 39 and standing:(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 771subliminal

i used to do that too but i noticed that they were always moving the bedding and laying right on the bottom of the cage so i now put it on the cage so i know the highest temps that they can get to in the cage.

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That's what I do too. I like to control the temps from the standpoint of what happens if they were directly on the glass. Having that thermostat made difference too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toddsbabygirl

THANKS
its really not cost as much as i first thought that it would.
my only issue is this darn humidity.. im at 39 and standing:(

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Keep in Mind this is a dry season for most due to the cold. You can spray 2-3 times a day on the tank walls or use a wet towel to cover the top screen.

I do know some people put the water dish under the lamp, so that evaporating water will help with humidity. I just wonder about the snake wanting to drink water that warm.

I think for now you are doing a great job, and you can tweak things as you go along.

Also, you DO want the end of the probe resting under the substrate and directly over where the UTH is. Despite their being recommended for reptiles, these things will get hot enough to burn and injure your snake if not regulated. It is important to know what the hottest temperature your snake can reach is to prevent injury, especially with a glass tank, because glass conducts heat so well.

Most of my BP rest happily on top of their bedding, but my little male always burrows to the bottom and sits on the tub itself. If the shavings read say, 85 the tub itself might be 90. So if the shavings read a safe 90 -92, the bottom of the tank could be as high as 110, and that would burn your baby.

I hope you are finding your new baby as addicting as I find mine. I started with 2, and now I'm up to 8!!

Gale

im going to move it sometime in a day or so, ive rearranged his tank so much today i just want to leave it be.. he was pretty good though he never struck at me he staid laying down, didnt hide his head or anything, seemed to want to check out what i was doing:oops:

IMO that bowl is way too small/shallow. Get one that is a tad bit deeper, at last half that size larger and more of a rectangle shape. This in itself will improve the humidity alot. The tank looks good. Only other thing I would do is maybe enclose that far corner where the log is just a bit more so when he is over there he feels more secure. Maybe cover the top of it the front of the log with another plant or 2?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

IMO that bowl is way too small/shallow. Get one that is a tad bit deeper, at last half that size larger and more of a rectangle shape. This in itself will improve the humidity alot. The tank looks good. Only other thing I would do is maybe enclose that far corner where the log is just a bit more so when he is over there he feels more secure. Maybe cover the top of it the front of the log with another plant or 2?

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yeah i had that thought today when i looked a the pic's i took.. im going to try to rearrange the tank tomorrow or tuesday.

as for the bowl I KNEW it was to small/shallow.. but hubby insisted it was okay.. lol

i put a small bowl under the light but im gonna see what i can do tomorrow humidity is still in the upper 30's and im just not happy with that.

well i have a new question.. i had thetank all set up and he has woke up for the night and exploring the tank searching for a way out.. and he's pulled all the trees down (fine with me ) but he has pulled the wire to the thermometer down and keeps curling around it and the plastic thats on the top.. i wrapped it around half of the lid and (its helping btw) but he keeps trying to poke his head in it. grrrr..
what im needing to know is will the wire be okay for a few more hours as long as im here to watch him?

im not 100% yet with getting him out of his cage and im still a little skiddish (hubby is really helping me over come that ) but am i still safe for the next few hours til hubby is home to get him out for me to hold til its all fixed?

If you just brought him home I'd resist handling him too much. Snakes of any sort really need a lot of time to just "chill," especially when they've been moved to a new place, otherwise they get stressed out. When I got my boa last year I left him alone for two weeks. No handling, nothing. Then I fed him, let him digest for a few days, and then (and still now) only handle him a few times a week.

I'm obviously not an expert on BP husbandry, but what I've found with my boa is that I don't need to leave the thermometer/hydrogator in his enclosure all the time. Every few weeks I just check up on things. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I've never had any spikes in the temps. He's doing great and super healthy.

Have fun, that's a beautiful snake you have.

As long as there are no plastic loops or holes on the plants. Check the plastic covered wires for the plants or the stems. If there are any loops cut them off with scissors so he cant get stuck in them. As for the wire, it shouldnt bother him as long as it doesnt get knotted up and make a loop he can get stuck in. I have rack and tub systems mostly but I do have 2 tanks as well. I taped the wire to the glass on the inside. All the way to the bottom where I positioned the therm just on the egde of where the UTH ends on the underside. So it is not measuring the surface directly above it but just off the edge to compensate for bedding. I taped it all the way down the wire with clear tape and over the therm sensor with aluminum tape. This keeps the wire from moving or being disturbed.

im going to go over the cage REALLY WELL today and fix all the loose ends and check plants and such. then tape wires down well.

we FIANLLY named him BO BO and let me tell you what bobo is EXTREMELY active last night, it started not long after the night light was turned on and it still hasnt stopped at 8 am. he's been all over the cage wrapping in the plants hanging out on the tree checking out the thermometer sprawled out along the front of the cage, even under everything. everytime i look he's some place different. and he goes from hot side to cold side approx ever 45 min or so.. but when he stops to curl up for a few its mainly in dead center of the cage.
he hasnt burrowed under the bark one time though so i guess thats a plus. makes me feel better on the burn issue

Hi, first off the ball looks great, and you are doing a great job so far. I live in Ohio, so I know what you are going through with low humidity. Humidity is not all that difficult to control if you know how to control it. Humidity does not do well in cold weather, so you want to make sure that your ambient temp inside of your enclosure is high. It should be in the eighties, if you can manage. Second, you need a large water source, such as, a large water dish. Lastly, you need to cover most of the top of your tank. You could use a variety of things, just make sure that it does not allow humidity to escape, and does not mold. Your ball only requires a very minimal space for air exchange. Therefore, I would try to cover around 90% of the top. I hope this helps, and good luck.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toddsbabygirl

im going to go over the cage REALLY WELL today and fix all the loose ends and check plants and such. then tape wires down well.

we FIANLLY named him BO BO and let me tell you what bobo is EXTREMELY active last night, it started not long after the night light was turned on and it still hasnt stopped at 8 am. he's been all over the cage wrapping in the plants hanging out on the tree checking out the thermometer sprawled out along the front of the cage, even under everything. everytime i look he's some place different. and he goes from hot side to cold side approx ever 45 min or so.. but when he stops to curl up for a few its mainly in dead center of the cage.
he hasnt burrowed under the bark one time though so i guess thats a plus. makes me feel better on the burn issue

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Please steer clear of the tape! Ball pythons have a habit of getting themselves stuck to it.

i redid the tank this morning, bo was happy to get to play on the bed and was checking out EVERYTHING on my bed.
anyway i have a pic of the tank now, i added more water in there, and my humidity is better its staying 42%, up from 31% (however if i put the unit down on the floor of the cage the humidity shoots up) i did check the temp of the pad directly on the gass and got a reading of 92 degree's this was after keeping it there for approx 20-30 min.

BUT my temp's are down today im hoping thats due to the winter weather outside (its only 20 degrees today)
but my temps are reading the same on both sides 76.6 on hot and 76.5 on cold im concerned about this temp change.. i have the top covered and it itsnt doing anything to help.. and i dont have any form of heat whatsoever on the cold side.:confused:

yesterday i was getting low 80's on hot and mid to high 70's on cold

anyway here are my pic's from today
also i found a 20 gal long tank for 15 bucks or a 29 long for 20 bucks on craigslist im thinking of going ahead and picking this up and storing it until needed. that price is AWSOME



http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...6/DSCF7217.jpg


http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...6/DSCF7218.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...6/DSCF7222.jpg

http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/i...6/DSCF7223.jpg

Looks good! Have you thought about switching the substrate to something that holds humidity better? Cypress Mulch and Coco Fiber hold humidity really well. You have to make sure to use the Coco Fiber the correct way though, or else it can be bad for the snake.

Also, if you have an UTH, the heat won't be able to flow through that much substrate. I'd suggest taking some out if you have an UTH that's being controlled with a thermostat or dimmer.

Looks good. He's got alot of places to hide and wedge into. He will be more active for awhile until he settles in and figures out there is no way out and that is his den. As for the tape thing. Ive never had a problem taping wire for years but you do need to be sure its good tape and the glass is very clean. I would not use that frosted scotch tape because that stuff doesnt stick very well. With no chance of it peeling up anywhere. If it ever starts to do that you just replace it.

Looks very good so far. Believe me they like very small places. You wont need the bigger tank for at least a year or so depending on how fast he grows.

Looks good Just get the temps up before another problem arises.

I suggest switching that white bulb to a IR Bulb. They cost lil more but have a stronger beam of heat with minimal light and dont kill humidity as fast.

Heres the bulbs i used when i had Beardies years ago.
http://www.arcatapet.com/item.cfm?cat=11925-
On site search for Item 11925
i believe petco sells them but your going to pay more for it there.

BoBo looks so cute peering around every corner. He looks so happy : )
What a precious pup.

okay IM GETTING CLOSER

if you'll look in the pic's where the thermometer is sitting i left i there, but removed the cave that was beside of it (its really to small anyway) but i took some advise of a friends and used duck tape as my covering on top of wire (except where light is and leaving ventilation around light)
here are my temps as of now (humidity is a bit high to me so i thought if i took the smallest bowl out it will help)

temp's

hot side 80.5
cold side 74.5
top of driftwood 91.0

Humidity is 74%
temp's are still rising just a bit after the tape and i just took the small bowl on top of cave out

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toddsbabygirl

okay IM GETTING CLOSER

if you'll look in the pic's where the thermometer is sitting i left i there, but removed the cave that was beside of it (its really to small anyway) but i took some advise of a friends and used duck tape as my covering on top of wire (except where light is and leaving ventilation around light)
here are my temps as of now (humidity is a bit high to me so i thought if i took the smallest bowl out it will help)

temp's

hot side 80.5
cold side 74.5
top of driftwood 91.0

Humidity is 74%

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You want
90-94 warm side
80-84 cool side
55-65% humidity when not shedding and 70%+ when in shed.

Okay, you need to use about an inch of substrate, that is probably why your UTH isn't heating up enough. Make sure the probe is under the substrate right over where the UTH is.

About your hides. Honestly I would think about getting different ones. The log hide doesn't really work as a hide for a ball python. They are far too open for this kind of shy snake. You need some small tight fitting hides that are low to the ground. You could go out and get some rock cave hides from the pet store but those can get kind of expensive. opaque plastic bowls with a hole cut out of the side work very well and are very cheap!

Move the lamp to the other side of the cage or the cool side. You don't need two heat sources on one side of the enclosure.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

Looks very good so far. Believe me they like very small places. You wont need the bigger tank for at least a year or so depending on how fast he grows.

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actually the hubby is going to move him to a 20 long tank sometime next month. we've been redoing our home and are going to build him a better habitat with a humidity getaway and lots of things to keep it feeling cozy and "small" yet still large enough to do him a few years. its going to be really really nice. i know we dont have to do that just yet but he is wanting to do it and possibly build the tank into the wall across from the fire place or something we arent sure.. but we will have our amazon parrot on one side of the room set up in a huge wall sized cage and bo on the other.. its going to look amazing

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toddsbabygirl

actually the hubby is going to move him to a 20 long tank sometime next month. we've been redoing our home and are going to build him a better habitat with a humidity getaway and lots of things to keep it feeling cozy and "small" yet still large enough to do him a few years. its going to be really really nice. i know we dont have to do that just yet but he is wanting to do it and possibly build the tank into the wall across from the fire place or something we arent sure.. but we will have our amazon parrot on one side of the room set up in a huge wall sized cage and bo on the other.. its going to look amazing

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I would make sure your snake is eating very consistantly before you consider moving him to a bigger enclosure so soon. For some ball pythons, moving them to a bigger enclosure is enough to make them uninterested in eating.