these prices have to be fake... right?...

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=745308

No......Most seem decent.

-Superb Exotics

Which one are you talking about....that Black Razor one is amazing!!! I would totally buy that.....but I don't know that breeder and would be a little scared to just send off cash to someone I had not heard of. But $500 wow...to me that is pretty cheap but then again I am a total newbie

I will be interested to see who comments but I think you might have put this in the wrong forum....I think it has to go someplace else when it is about an ad.???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Superb Exotics

No......Most seem decent.

-Superb Exotics

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200 for a female mojave and 100 for a male spider?

These prices are a little low...perfect example of how the market gets smashed and values drop.

Or, maybe it's just a guy who decided what he wanted for HIS snakes without asking permission from anyone.

How DARE he do that.

I'd go tell the blbc right now.

The NERVE, exercising his free market rights.....totally disregarding all those OTHER people, you know the ones, the ones he's never met, will never meet, that don't give a squat about HIM, until he ..... wait, until he does WHAT to their what?

Let me try again; the nerve, setting low prices that no one else has to meet or beat or even notice. The unmitigated gall to do so in public where first timers will see and expect EVERYONE else to match pricewise.....no, that whole free market should protect anyone who wanted to charge more and thne there's that pesky little fact that this IS still America and if he wants to sell mojaves for 2 nickles and a crumpled dollar bill he IS free to do so, except at that site, you know the one, they're virtually in a league of their own, but as long as he's not kowtowing to them and begging permission to exercise his "god" given rights to make a living on his own, no, no that means he's NOT the bad guy again....

Hmmmm, I just can't seem to make out why this is wrong....

I can see the inconvenience. I can see the irritation. But I can't see the wrong.

It must be MY mind that is too narrow to encompass some much larger and no doubt far to difficult to understand commerce secret society stuff. It couldn't be a bunch of whiny crybabies getting their diapers and twisted....

Could it?

No, they're far too cool for that.

It MUST be my lack. That makes MUCH more sense....

When prices are that low my first impression is something wrong with animals like sick, bad feeders, false advertising or just problem snakes. Or someone is getting out of snakes and just dumping them off for whatever. When I first started I bought a bargain price female pastel that ended up being a male that didnt eat. Oh and back then that was a $900 snake when they were $1,400.

Now when I see an add like that I run the other way.

I had a friend who bought a bargain albino BP once and recieved a cornsnake in the mail, never got his $ back either, just sayin;)

Wish I lived near this guy for sure! It's a pick up, not a scheme to send money, so that definitely makes you think it could be on the total up and up.

They are great prices. Especially compared to locally here

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Or, maybe it's just a guy who decided what he wanted for HIS snakes without asking permission from anyone.

How DARE he do that.

I'd go tell the blbc right now.

The NERVE, exercising his free market rights.....totally disregarding all those OTHER people, you know the ones, the ones he's never met, will never meet, that don't give a squat about HIM, until he ..... wait, until he does WHAT to their what?

Let me try again; the nerve, setting low prices that no one else has to meet or beat or even notice. The unmitigated gall to do so in public where first timers will see and expect EVERYONE else to match pricewise.....no, that whole free market should protect anyone who wanted to charge more and thne there's that pesky little fact that this IS still America and if he wants to sell mojaves for 2 nickles and a crumpled dollar bill he IS free to do so, except at that site, you know the one, they're virtually in a league of their own, but as long as he's not kowtowing to them and begging permission to exercise his "god" given rights to make a living on his own, no, no that means he's NOT the bad guy again....

Hmmmm, I just can't seem to make out why this is wrong....

I can see the inconvenience. I can see the irritation. But I can't see the wrong.

It must be MY mind that is too narrow to encompass some much larger and no doubt far to difficult to understand commerce secret society stuff. It couldn't be a bunch of whiny crybabies getting their diapers and twisted....

Could it?

No, they're far too cool for that.

It MUST be my lack. That makes MUCH more sense....

---

Good grief calm down....do I need to send you a glass of wine. Are you having a bad day? :8:

ok who lives there that can check out those razors...I totally want one....they are beautiful!


Of course it his option to sell anything he wants for any price. He could just be trying to pay some bills off..... But I agree with the person that states...when it is so cheap...especially on some of them you have to say...hmmmmm. Just hmmmm not OMG run....just hmmmm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crusher

http://market.kingsnake.com/detail.php?cat=32&de=745308

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Are you serious?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Or, maybe it's just a guy who decided what he wanted for HIS snakes without asking permission from anyone.

How DARE he do that.

I'd go tell the blbc right now.

The NERVE, exercising his free market rights.....totally disregarding all those OTHER people, you know the ones, the ones he's never met, will never meet, that don't give a squat about HIM, until he ..... wait, until he does WHAT to their what?

Let me try again; the nerve, setting low prices that no one else has to meet or beat or even notice. The unmitigated gall to do so in public where first timers will see and expect EVERYONE else to match pricewise.....no, that whole free market should protect anyone who wanted to charge more and thne there's that pesky little fact that this IS still America and if he wants to sell mojaves for 2 nickles and a crumpled dollar bill he IS free to do so, except at that site, you know the one, they're virtually in a league of their own, but as long as he's not kowtowing to them and begging permission to exercise his "god" given rights to make a living on his own, no, no that means he's NOT the bad guy again....

Hmmmm, I just can't seem to make out why this is wrong....

I can see the inconvenience. I can see the irritation. But I can't see the wrong.

It must be MY mind that is too narrow to encompass some much larger and no doubt far to difficult to understand commerce secret society stuff. It couldn't be a bunch of whiny crybabies getting their diapers and twisted....

Could it?

No, they're far too cool for that.

It MUST be my lack. That makes MUCH more sense....

---

My bad....I wasn't complaining, just stating a fact. I could sell pieds for $100 all day long but wouldn't do it cause I know they are worth more than that and by doing so I would be hurting myself, my fellow herpers, and the BP market in general. Each animal has a certain "value" to it's owner, but each morph also should be allowed to hold a certain "value", and with people selling them really cheap it allows the overall market to drop. Go open a gas station on a corner and sell gas for $1/gallon while the other 3 corners are selling it for $2.50. You will have a busy couple of days but wont stay in business long.
Again, sorry if I upset you with my comment, people on here that know me will tell you I am not an arguer, nor do I like to upset anyone...I was just stating an opinion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Or, maybe it's just a guy who decided what he wanted for HIS snakes without asking permission from anyone.

How DARE he do that.

I'd go tell the blbc right now.

The NERVE, exercising his free market rights.....totally disregarding all those OTHER people, you know the ones, the ones he's never met, will never meet, that don't give a squat about HIM, until he ..... wait, until he does WHAT to their what?

Let me try again; the nerve, setting low prices that no one else has to meet or beat or even notice. The unmitigated gall to do so in public where first timers will see and expect EVERYONE else to match pricewise.....no, that whole free market should protect anyone who wanted to charge more and thne there's that pesky little fact that this IS still America and if he wants to sell mojaves for 2 nickles and a crumpled dollar bill he IS free to do so, except at that site, you know the one, they're virtually in a league of their own, but as long as he's not kowtowing to them and begging permission to exercise his "god" given rights to make a living on his own, no, no that means he's NOT the bad guy again....

Hmmmm, I just can't seem to make out why this is wrong....

I can see the inconvenience. I can see the irritation. But I can't see the wrong.

It must be MY mind that is too narrow to encompass some much larger and no doubt far to difficult to understand commerce secret society stuff. It couldn't be a bunch of whiny crybabies getting their diapers and twisted....

Could it?

No, they're far too cool for that.

It MUST be my lack. That makes MUCH more sense....

---

Yeah how dare those people try to keep scumbags from crashing the market and ruining the industry.... :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FatBoy

My bad....I wasn't complaining, just stating a fact. I could sell pieds for $100 all day long but wouldn't do it cause I know they are worth more than that and by doing so I would be hurting myself, my fellow herpers, and the BP market in general. Each animal has a certain "value" to it's owner, but each morph also should be allowed to hold a certain "value", and with people selling them really cheap it allows the overall market to drop. Go open a gas station on a corner and sell gas for $1/gallon while the other 3 corners are selling it for $2.50. You will have a busy couple of days but wont stay in business long.
Again, sorry if I upset you with my comment, people on here that know me will tell you I am not an arguer, nor do I like to upset anyone...I was just stating an opinion.

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Hmmmm, I'm almost tempted to apologize but .... well.... sometimes people just don't get my humor.

I totally get what your point is, I think. I was more poking fun at how reactionary some folks are.

It's the old virtual stick/virtual anthill/virtual kid watching what happens when the virtual ants meet the virtual stick.

State on, I did not mean to demean your meaning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by norsmis

Yeah how dare those people try to keep scumbags from crashing the market and ruining the industry.... :rolleyes:

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On a serious sidenote, how come this only seems to apply to ball pythons?

I've seen beardies crash. Calkings crashed and continue to do so. Corns are cheap. Milks have come and gone for the most part. Boas, well heck, who knows what's going to happen to them.

But why is it ONLY the ball python market that draws this intense scrutiny of fellow sellers?

How come those outspoken, and sometimes rightly so, ball python afficianodos don't take up for their poorer less vocal fellow breeders?

Why is there no outcry over 7 dollar leopard geckos? Why no lament for sulcattas going for 25 bucks a pop? Do they matter less? Or is it something more personal? Something along the lines of if it doesn't cost me I don't really care?

Do you ever wonder about that?

The Spiders are a bit cheap, but everything else seems reasonable. Yellowbelly males were $50 in Daytona back in 08.

Well, I did just pick up a stunning 300+ gram Mojave female at a show for $225.

I don't know.

Gale

Spiders were $250 in Daytona two years ago. Prices always seem to be lower there, and the following year whatever the animals were in Daytona the year before seem to be the price everywhere else the follwing year. Lets blame the Daytona show for the drop in value.

Most of the prices are reasonable. $600 for a pastel female is reasonable, and throw the male in for free just to move it if someone buys the female. I sold my Ybs for $75. So the guy is just having a sale and trying to move some animals. Breeding season is up and going and he may need room. Who knows but the prices are not to far off.

I would sooo want to have one of those. It seems a lot less than what its really worth. Like i would pay $900 for one of those but right now im saving up for a lesser and im begging my parents to loan me so i can get a perfect bumblebee thats about the same price.

Those prices don't seem to be out of line. The market is flooded with male spiders, pastels, and yellowbellies... You'll be surprised at what you can get for a really good price if you meet up and offer cash.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BPelizabeth

Which one are you talking about....that Black Razor one is amazing!!! I would totally buy that.....but I don't know that breeder and would be a little scared to just send off cash to someone I had not heard of. But $500 wow...to me that is pretty cheap but then again I am a total newbie

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You're mistaking the prices. $500 is for his black pastel line that can make those Black Razors (when combined with an Ian G. line black pastel). If you want a Black Razor, he's charging $6000 for those.

I know this breeder personally and he does not have sick or poor quality animals. I don't think he's a market crasher or a scammer. I've purchased a mojave female two years ago for $200 at Whiteplains and I've seen other breeder selling base-morphs for under $100, so I'm not sure why everyone here is bashing him.

Yeah, I hate the fact base morphs are getting so cheap now a-days, but what are you going to do. I've seen cinny males going for $75 on KS and I've read threads here on BP.net for spider for the same price.

You have to remember something with the more common single gene co-dom stuff. Most breeders produce those as byproduct in the process of producing combos like Bumblebees, Pastel Mojaves, Pewters. That stuff is bound to come down eventually.

Single co-doms are no longer investment animals in my opinion, so I don't think it's necessary to crucify the guy.

look at how fast pieds are coming down now. Should be able to pick them up next season for around 500-600 dollars

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Denial

look at how fast pieds are coming down now. Should be able to pick them up next season for around 500-600 dollars

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Yep...I've already seen males at $650 and they have over 20 available. People have been cranking those out in numbers for years. I remember one guy literally had 100 available (with pics too) a couple years ago.

If you buy pieds looking to just make more pieds, it might not be such a great investment....but if you buy a pied and spider (or whatever) het pied, you could do some pretty neat things.

It's all about the combo...single mutations get produced almost by accident now. lol

I know Tom and have purchased from him. He is not a scammer or trying to crash the market. I have not spoken to him in some time but he is most likely just trying to sell off his 09 babies to make some room for this season. He would never sell anyone a sick or problem feeder. His enclosures are very clean and he has no problem with anyone picking up any animal at his facility and showing you around. Tom is one of the good guys.

There are other ads out that should shock us.

If someone thinks the prices are too low, they are welcome to buy up all the low priced animals and try and corner the market. Good luck with that plan :)

My opinion is, if you think his prices are so low, that you are willing to comment on how low they are, why not just buy them? Maybe, just maybe, because the prices are not that low, just lower than what you want to sell your animals for, and you are peeved?

Look guys and gals, prices are going to drop every year. Some morphs more than others, Single Co Dom males more than most everything else. It is just the reality of the Ball world. In what other business does every customer one day become a competitor?

Take Pastels.....there is a Super form, so breeding a Super male to a normal female will give you all Pastels. If you have a Super Pastel male, chances are you have a few normal females, and will not just breed him to one, but two, or three. Then you might breed him to a Spider, which will produce normal Pastels too. If you breed your normal Pastel male to a few normal females, you end up with a ton of Pastels. Selling the combos is pretty easy, but try selling 10 Pastel males, 15 Pastel males......

I do not run into this problem because I suck so bad as a Ball breeder, that the most babies I have hatched in one year is 30. Yup, the MOST babies I have produced in a single year is 30. Feel free to laugh all you want, but you have never seen me having a self forced SALE because I overproduced Mojave males, an Everything must Go sale, a buy one get two free sale, naw, I price my animals according to what I see on the net, and what I feel they are worth, and since I am no morph factory, I sell out each and every year. And out of those 30 Balls I produced, all were morphs but 6.

Now, sometimes when breeding say a Mojave cross, you produce a few too many Mojave males, that will and can happen every so often. But, if you breed your Super Mojave male to 10 normal females, and have so many Mojave males that you have to price them so low, and ruin it for others, THAT is a different story altogether...just plain ole greed and ignorance and piss poor planning on your part...don't get me started!

Dave

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EmberBall

My opinion is, if you think his prices are so low, that you are willing to comment on how low they are, why not just buy them? Maybe, just maybe, because the prices are not that low, just lower than what you want to sell your animals for, and you are peeved?

Look guys and gals, prices are going to drop every year. Some morphs more than others, Single Co Dom males more than most everything else. It is just the reality of the Ball world. In what other business does every customer one day become a competitor?

Take Pastels.....there is a Super form, so breeding a Super male to a normal female will give you all Pastels. If you have a Super Pastel male, chances are you have a few normal females, and will not just breed him to one, but two, or three. Then you might breed him to a Spider, which will produce normal Pastels too. If you breed your normal Pastel male to a few normal females, you end up with a ton of Pastels. Selling the combos is pretty easy, but try selling 10 Pastel males, 15 Pastel males......

I do not run into this problem because I suck so bad as a Ball breeder, that the most babies I have hatched in one year is 30. Yup, the MOST babies I have produced in a single year is 30. Feel free to laugh all you want, but you have never seen me having a self forced SALE because I overproduced Mojave males, an Everything must Go sale, a buy one get two free sale, naw, I price my animals according to what I see on the net, and what I feel they are worth, and since I am no morph factory, I sell out each and every year. And out of those 30 Balls I produced, all were morphs but 6.

Now, sometimes when breeding say a Mojave cross, you produce a few too many Mojave males, that will and can happen every so often. But, if you breed your Super Mojave male to 10 normal females, and have so many Mojave males that you have to price them so low, and ruin it for others, THAT is a different story altogether...just plain ole greed and ignorance and piss poor planning on your part...don't get me started!

Dave

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Exactly. :gj:

Morph males that virtually no breeder has a use for is a new concept in the ball python world, but it almost goes without saying in the leopard gecko world, etc.

You just have to look at it and say "so what?" if a guy can buy a pastel male for $50. I'm not planning to pay my overhead by selling pastel males. Furthermore, most people buying a pastel male are new ball python owners or smaller hobbyist breeders. They're not doing it for money and they're probably not going to produce 14 pastels when they do breed it.

Those snakes have basically replaced the normals in my clutches now. If I can do better than $20 (CB normal price) and get to look at one more ball python morph this season, that's cool with me.

When I see things like that I think one of two things. ITs a scam or its someone new to the market and figures they can give themselves a little bit of an edge by lowering there prices a bit from the norm. Thats what I did with my first babies . Now I know some will jump in a say things like this is ruining the market values but I see different. Look at ppl like Brian and Ralph they never lower their prices because they know their name and quality are very widely known. But do you think they always did this. You don't think for one second that maybe in the beginning they made a few deals just to initially get their names out there then from there let the quality of their animal dictate the prices.

Dang it..... The ads already been removed. And I never even got a chance to join in on the lynching... Don't you just hate when that happens?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Dang it..... The ads already been removed. And I never even got a chance to join in on the lynching... Don't you just hate when that happens?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

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It's even worse if you grow your own hemp to make sure you get a good quality rope and then you don't even get to use it.

Thank goodness for by products.

LMFAO @ wilomnn!!!!!!!:rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Dang it..... The ads already been removed. And I never even got a chance to join in on the lynching... Don't you just hate when that happens?

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

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:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarkieJ

You're mistaking the prices. $500 is for his black pastel line that can make those Black Razors (when combined with an Ian G. line black pastel). If you want a Black Razor, he's charging $6000 for those.

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I have been on vacation so just saw this....

LOL.....:rofl::rofl: Well there ya go....total blonde moment. :rolleyes: I have those often at times. My husband would say quite often...:rofl: now you get why I was like ...wow...looks pretty cheap to me! lol

I was serious about finding someone out there too...they were so cool. Well you cannot say that I don't have excellent taste. The hubby will tell you...if I see it and want it....it is usually very very expensive!!